StageLeft
No Lifer
- Sep 29, 2000
- 70,150
- 5
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<< First of all, this isn't war remember. War was never declared. You could say that USA is holding foreign nationals even though they haven't broken any laws in USA (they were if Afganistan). USA can treat british or swedish-citizens any way they please, but americans get special treatment. Gotcha.
The Prez and congress say it isn't a war but I and most other Americans know this is a war. They don't call it war for various reasons. Vietnam wasn't officially a war. BTW, who says Johnnie Walker got special treatment? How do you know? We're you there? All the terrorists are getting exactly what they deserve. Walker was lucky enough to be an Ameican citizen and is treated differently because this is our war and we will abide by our rules. >>
Great for you. I don't want to hear you complain, then, if the US declares war on Iraq and American POWs are tortured and beaten and treated as dog scraps. By your definition Iraq has every right to do that because in the case of the battle that the POWs came from Iraq was the victor.
If the victor makes the rules he better be damn sure he'll always be the victor. If not he should keep an eye to the future so that he doesn't find himself the one being beaten.
Great for you. I don't want to hear you complain, then, if the US declares war on Iraq and American POWs are tortured and beaten and treated as dog scraps.
This very thing actually happened during the Persian Gulf War to some of our pilots. What else is new?
This very thing actually happened during the Persian Gulf War to some of our pilots. What else is new?
Do you really think that a man like Saddam Hussein, a man that burns people in hot oil while he watches, gives a rat's arse about Geneva Conventions? The only thing he knows about Geneva is that's where his family vacations and stores their money. War is war, and since it wasn't officially declared, we can do whatever we want to these terrorists. Not that we would, but we could. BTW, if Saddam (or any other dictator) doesn't care, why should we?
<< so he's a racicist[sic] simply becasue he used the word "beloved patriot"? >>
Yes, "towel-head" is a racial epithet as much as "great person" or "jap" is.
<< those prisoners should be tortured and killed. they should be stripped of their rights (if they had any to begin with) and tried under military tribunals. a verdict of guilty should be rendered regardless and they should be sentenced to death. >>
Who named you judge, jury and executioner? We have this idea in America called "due process" and "fair trial." If we simply execute these people because people like you don't like them, we've given up whatever righteousness we have left. Why not just resurrect Joe McCarthy and ask him what he thinks about it?
Yes, "towel-head" is a racial epithet as much as "great person" or "jap" is.
<< those prisoners should be tortured and killed. they should be stripped of their rights (if they had any to begin with) and tried under military tribunals. a verdict of guilty should be rendered regardless and they should be sentenced to death. >>
Who named you judge, jury and executioner? We have this idea in America called "due process" and "fair trial." If we simply execute these people because people like you don't like them, we've given up whatever righteousness we have left. Why not just resurrect Joe McCarthy and ask him what he thinks about it?
<< BTW, if Saddam (or any other dictator) doesn't care, why should we? >>
You talk about Saddam pouring oil on people as if you think that is a HORRIBLE crime, yet then you turn around and say that we have every right to act like Saddam. Hypocrisy at its finest.
You talk about Saddam pouring oil on people as if you think that is a HORRIBLE crime, yet then you turn around and say that we have every right to act like Saddam. Hypocrisy at its finest.
StageLeft
No Lifer
- Sep 29, 2000
- 70,150
- 5
- 0
<< Do you really think that a man like Saddam Hussein, a man that burns people in hot oil while he watches, gives a rat's arse about Geneva Conventions? The only thing he knows about Geneva is that's where his family vacations and stores their money. War is war, and since it wasn't officially declared, we can do whatever we want to these terrorists. Not that we would, but we could. BTW, if Saddam (or any other dictator) doesn't care, why should we? >>
What is the point of the Geneva convention then? OK, lets say that US goes to war with Japan and prisoners on both sides. Do you want US prisoners treated like crap or do you want them treated humanely? If you treat the Japanese prisoners like crap which of those two possibilities do you think will come to light? This is the point of the geneva convention. It is plain and obvious that if two countries have both signed it they have to treat each other's prisoners humanely. I suppose in this case Afghanistan has not signed it (have they?).
The problem with the Geneva convention is that it is based on trust. During times of war, trust of your enemy is the last thing on your mind. In reality, trust goes out the door.
To make things easier to understand for you, think of Microsoft or other software vendors. Before Office and Windows Xp, their system was based on trust. But people abused their trust and they came out with that activation scheme. Again, reality hits home.
To make things easier to understand for you, think of Microsoft or other software vendors. Before Office and Windows Xp, their system was based on trust. But people abused their trust and they came out with that activation scheme. Again, reality hits home.
<< The Prez and congress say it isn't a war but I and most other Americans know this is a war. >>
But legally this isn't a war. USA went to Afganistan with the blessing of international community. Now you are holding foreign nationals as prisoners, while their status and future is unclear. Have those individuals broken any law in the USA?
<< BTW, who says Johnnie Walker got special treatment? How do you know? We're you there? >>
All Al-Quaida prisoners were sent to Quantanamo. Except the only american prisoner. That IS special treatment!
<< All the terrorists are getting exactly what they deserve. Walker was lucky enough to be an Ameican citizen and is treated differently because this is our war and we will abide by our rules. >>
First you ask me that is Walker treated differently, and few seconds later you admit it yourself. Thanks, you make my job alot easier.
Why does USA treat Walker differently? Were his crimes lesser than that of different nationals? I would say his crime was WORSE! He betrayed his country! And the fact remains that he did exactly the same things in Afganistan as rest of the "combatants" did, he should get similar treatment.
There's something wrong with your attitude. This wasn't 100% "American war". There were british troops there as well. British ships laiunched missiles. British were involved as well. People from all over the world died in Sept. 11th attacks. What gives you the right to treat foreign nationals as you wish?
There's something fundamentally wrong with your attitude.
<< The problem with the Geneva convention is that it is based on trust. During times of war, trust of your enemy is the last thing on your mind. In reality, trust goes out the door. >>
Not true I would say. There are numerous examples of trust between combatans, as laid out by international laws. An example:
During the invasion of Norway, german cruiser Hipper encountered a british convoy of cargo-ships. Hipper proceeded to sink the convoy, except medical-ship, which was allowed to leave the scene unharmed. In return that medical-ship did not inform the british hi-command of Hippers location. That entire situation was based on trust.
Of course, there has been cases to the contrary. But to say that trust has no place in war is, well, wrong. And besides, shouldn't USA show it's moral superiority with this case? If you treat your enemies like crap, you are no better than your enemies are.
The Geneva Convention needs a monitoring mechanism. Without it, it's no good and highly dependent on good faith. When Arab terrosits working for their respective government murder innocent Israelis (PA, anyone). WHen Israel slaughtered 19,500 Egyptians during the 1967 war, not a peep was heard. When Africans are savagely murdering each other in countless civil wars, not a peep is heard. When the Vietcongs took American G.I.s to the Hanoi Hilton, not a peep was heard. When rebels in Colombia murder thousands of people, not a peep is heard.
All this goes to show that there is not monitoring mechanism and the Geneva Convention is a joke. Don't make it count for one and not for others.
All this goes to show that there is not monitoring mechanism and the Geneva Convention is a joke. Don't make it count for one and not for others.
Of course, there has been cases to the contrary. But to say that trust has no place in war is, well, wrong. And besides, shouldn't USA show it's moral superiority with this case? If you treat your enemies like crap, you are no better than your enemies are.
You Europeans are 'morally superior,' not us. We Americans are realists. An eye for an eye is still a common theme in the states. You pacifists and apologists are too soft to understand the what is really going on in the world.
You Europeans are 'morally superior,' not us. We Americans are realists. An eye for an eye is still a common theme in the states. You pacifists and apologists are too soft to understand the what is really going on in the world.
I used to be an opponent of the death penalty before 9/11 but afterwards I have since changed my mind. Oh, there will be "Due Process" and a "fair trial" all right. And soon after death. What is the difference in us bombing them into oblivion and after they are captured they get the death penalty? Nothing.
We meant for them to be killed in bombing raids and we mean to kill them after they have been tried in court. The only reason they are alive thus far is because we want any information they are willing to give up about future terrorist activities.
These people gave up their international rights as respectable humans that would possibly deserve the same treatment as anyone else in containment when they decided to plot the destruction of the WTC, Pentagon, and who knows what else.
They were part of Al-Quaida (sp?) and part of Talliban that were directly tied to Bin Laden who allegedly plotted the September 11 attrocities. They need to be made an example of.
Die I say, off with their heads!
We meant for them to be killed in bombing raids and we mean to kill them after they have been tried in court. The only reason they are alive thus far is because we want any information they are willing to give up about future terrorist activities.
These people gave up their international rights as respectable humans that would possibly deserve the same treatment as anyone else in containment when they decided to plot the destruction of the WTC, Pentagon, and who knows what else.
They were part of Al-Quaida (sp?) and part of Talliban that were directly tied to Bin Laden who allegedly plotted the September 11 attrocities. They need to be made an example of.
Die I say, off with their heads!
<< You Europeans are 'morally superior,' not us. We Americans are realists. An eye for an eye is still a common theme in the states. You pacifists and apologists are too soft to understand the what is really going on in the world. >>
By being just as bad as your enemy you lose your justification to do war. If you sacrifice humanity when fighting an enemy like Al-Quaida, you lose all you fight for. What is there to fight for, if the fight turns you in to the enemy you are fighting against.
"He who fights the dragon, becomes the dragon"
<< You Europeans are softer than I thought. It's called survival. Stop being so philosophical. >>
Would you really "survive" if you sacrificed everything you treasure? Everything you fought for? You really don't see the big picture?
<< << so he's a racicist[sic] simply becasue he used the word "beloved patriot"? >>
Yes, "towel-head" is a racial epithet as much as "great person" or "jap" is.
<< those prisoners should be tortured and killed. they should be stripped of their rights (if they had any to begin with) and tried under military tribunals. a verdict of guilty should be rendered regardless and they should be sentenced to death. >>
Who named you judge, jury and executioner? We have this idea in America called "due process" and "fair trial." If we simply execute these people because people like you don't like them, we've given up whatever righteousness we have left. Why not just resurrect Joe McCarthy and ask him what he thinks about it? >>
i have an even better idea. how about before any of our soldiers discharges their weapon they must frist get a warant from a judge and a trial takes place to determine if he/she should fire their weapon. i got new for you, due process doesnt exist in war
"He who fights the dragon, becomes the dragon."
"He who ignores the dragon, becomes 100% toasty carbon."
"He who ignores the dragon, becomes 100% toasty carbon."
bugsysiegel
Golden Member
- Jan 11, 2001
- 1,213
- 1
- 81
Amazing how many morons there are running around these threads. For those of you who are too stupid to figure it out, I will tell you once again what has already been posted here many, many times.
Give one of these sh!tbags a gun, and he WILL shoot you. They are trained to kill Americans (by the way, to their befuddled minds, that pretty much will include just about anyone with a similar skin color and speech pattern (read:British, Canadian, etc))
Now, if you think they deserve better, go on down to Cuba and jump in the cage with those pieces of crap, and after they get done ripping you apart, your family can reflect upon your human rights stance.
Wake up.
Give one of these sh!tbags a gun, and he WILL shoot you. They are trained to kill Americans (by the way, to their befuddled minds, that pretty much will include just about anyone with a similar skin color and speech pattern (read:British, Canadian, etc))
Now, if you think they deserve better, go on down to Cuba and jump in the cage with those pieces of crap, and after they get done ripping you apart, your family can reflect upon your human rights stance.
Wake up.
<< You really don't see the big picture?
No. Way too soft. >>
I might have expected as much, as I have seen some of the threads you have posted in... I obviously can't make you understand what I'm trying to say, and frankly, I'm not surprised.
<< Amazing how many morons there are running around these threads. For those of you who are too stupid to figure it out, I will tell you once again what has already been posted here many, many times.
Give one of these sh!tbags a gun, and he WILL shoot you. They are trained to kill Americans (by the way, to their befuddled minds, that pretty much will include just about anyone with a similar skin color and speech pattern (read:British, Canadian, etc))
Now, if you think they deserve better, go on down to Cuba and jump in the cage with those pieces of crap, and after they get done ripping you apart, your family can reflect upon your human rights stance.
Wake up. >>
Are those prisoners POW's? If they are, then treat them as such and recognize their rights as POW's
Are they illegal combatants? Then return them to Afganistan. Let their government deal with them. After all, that's where they broke the law
Are the common criminals? What crimes have those foreign nationals committed in USA that warrants teir arrest?
Why is it that almost all Europeans are so soft and apologetic? Any pragmatic Europeans in Europe?
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