US Gun Massacres

[bfdd]

American's gun fetish and lack of care for the mentally ill as exemplified by the lack of funding for mental care and facilities, is an obviously fatal combination that happens all too often in this country.

lack of funding? New York state keeps people locked up for as long as they feel like because they get like 4 grand a fucking day for the mentally ill they care for. You're joking right?

http://www.poughkeepsiejournal.com/...-York-a-leader-in-confining-mentally-disabled

New York locks up seven times the number of people with lifelong brain disorders such as Down syndrome as the average of 11 other states, putting the state far ahead of what some see as a troubling trend, according to a Poughkeepsie Journal survey.

Second-place California, with twice New York's population, has half as many secure beds for the developmentally disabled as New York. So does Texas, with a quarter more people. Four of the states surveyed, which included the nation's eight largest, have no beds, and four have 30 or fewer, the Journal found. New York has 605.

Just why New York locks up so many more troubled disabled people — only 10 percent of whom are known to have been convicted of crimes — has to do with a state system that long has offered more services to more disabled people, in a well-rounded system flush with Medicaid money.

The Medicaid reimbursement rate for New York's nine institutions for the developmentally disabled is $4,556 per person per day, paid half each by the state and federal government. The average of the other states surveyed was a fraction of New York's: $703.

Just like pretty much everything in the government, money is being spent er... I mean WASTED because the government has created "profit centers" like this. You think that 4 grand a day is going to help people? Nah.... The bigger something is the slower and less efficient it moves.

 

[cwjerome]

All I have to say to anyone offended or threatened by the list, is you need to ask yourself why the strong reaction to the facts.

My reaction had nothing to do with the facts... to borrow a phrase, simple facts like this mean nothing unless they are rightly understood, rightly related and rightly interpreted. And that's where the problems lies, my reaction is against you- your failure to offer any of that in the OP you disingenuous prig.

 

[Siddhartha]

I am working to get together a complete list of US gun massacres that have occur since 1960. I would appreciate any help with this.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/mar/11/timeline-america-shootings

December 2008

A gunman dressed as Santa Claus kills nine guests at a Christmas Eve party before taking his own life in Covina, a suburb of Los Angeles in California.

December 2007

A gunman kills eight people and wounds five at a shopping mall in Omaha, Nebraska, before killing himself.

April 2007

Cho Seung-hui kills 32 people and wounds many more at the Virginia Tech college in Blacksburg, Virginia, in two separate incidents on the same day. Cho had been diagnosed with a severe anxiety disorder.

March 2005

Jeff Weise, a student at Red Lake high school in Minnesota kills five students, a teacher, a security guard, and then himself. Before school, he had shot dead his grandfather and grandfather's companion.

April 1999

Two students at Columbine high school in Littleton, Colorado, kill 12 students and a teacher before killing themselves.

October 1991

George Hennard drives his pickup truck to Luby's cafeteria in Killeen, Texas, then shoots dead 23 people before killing himself.


August 1986

A former employee enters a post office in Oklahoma and shoots dead 14 workers before killing himself.

July 1984

Twenty-one people are killed when a 41-year-old man opens fire at a McDonald's restaurant in San Diego. He is shot by police.

February 1983

Three men shoot dead 14 people in the Wah Mee club in Seattle's Chinatown.

August 1966

Charles Whitman, a former marine, holes up in the clock tower at the University of Texas campus in Austin, where he had studied. He kills 15 people and wounds another 32 before being shot dead by police.

January 2011

Tucson AZ

October 2, 2006
Amish school shootings. Gunman shot 10 little girls, killing 5

January 30, 2006,

San Marco shot and killed her one-time neighbor, Beverly Graham, and then subsequently drove to the mail processing plant at which she previously worked in Goleta, California. San Marco entered the sprawling plant by driving through a gate behind another car. She gained entry to the building by taking an employee's identification badge at gunpoint.[2] She proceeded to shoot and kill six employees of the plant with a pistol before taking her own life.

December 1993

Colin Ferguson pulled out his gun and started firing at passengers. He killed six and wounded nineteen.

February 12, 2007, at 6:44 PM MST,

Sulejman Talović began a deadly shooting spree in Trolley Square resulting in the deaths of five bystanders and the shooter himself,[1] as well as the wounding of at least four others.

February 16, 1988,

Farley shot and killed seven people at ESL and wounded four others

The number of people killed in the gun massacres in the US over the last 50 years is around 200.

People who will say that more people are killed in automobile accidents are really saying that they comfortable with the costs of gun ownership.

 

[Londo_Jowo]

The number of people killed in the gun massacres in the US over the last 50 years is around 200.

People who will say that more people are killed in automobile accidents are really saying that they comfortable with the costs of gun ownership.

Nice strawman, not good enough to change my views on the right to own and bear arms.

 

[MotF Bane]

The number of people killed in the gun massacres in the US over the last 50 years is around 200.

People who will say that more people are killed in automobile accidents are really saying that they comfortable with the costs of gun ownership.

Over the course of thirty-four years, 1,525,678 people have died in automobile accidents.

Now just let this thread die, your point is, and always has been, pure bullshit.

 

[Siddhartha]

Over the course of thirty-four years, 1,525,678 people have died in automobile accidents.

Now just let this thread die, your point is, and always has been, pure bullshit.

What is my point?

 

[PrinceofWands]

The number of people killed in the gun massacres in the US over the last 50 years is around 200.

People who will say that more people are killed in automobile accidents are really saying that they comfortable with the costs of gun ownership.

So in other words, according to your research 4 people a year out of 330,000,000. 1 in 80,000,000 chance. Roughly the same number that die from vending machines. 1/10th the number that are killed by being struck by lightning. Yeah, I'm perfectly fine with that. Anyone who isn't needs to retake their statistics class.

 

[Siddhartha]

So in other words, according to your research 4 people a year out of 330,000,000. 1 in 80,000,000 chance. Roughly the same number that die from vending machines. 1/10th the number that are killed by being struck by lightning. Yeah, I'm perfectly fine with that. Anyone who isn't needs to retake their statistics class.

Thank you, you agree with the point of this thread. This is why I quantified the issue.

 

[Nebor]

People who will say that more people are killed in automobile accidents are really saying that they comfortable with the costs of gun ownership.

There has been a large consensus on this board that even if a Columbine level event happened every year, that is a justifiable cost in relation to our freedom. There are certainly costs to a society associated with free gun ownership, no one disputes that.

The issue arises in that some people don't have the stomach for paying the bill. So they say things like "If it saves even ONE LIFE..."

IMO, life is cheap. Freedom is priceless.

 

[Triumph]

The number of people killed in the gun massacres in the US over the last 50 years is around 200.

People who will say that more people are killed in automobile accidents are really saying that they comfortable with the costs of gun ownership.

For once I agree with you. I also am OK with the number of people who drown while swimming or who die riding motorcycles. Both of those are non-essential activities that carry risk.

 

[Craig234]

And yet, say that we need to be comfortable with a certain level of terrorist casualties every year ( we don't now have) rather than give up our freedoms, and righties scream.

 

[Nebor]

And yet, say that we need to be comfortable with a certain level of terrorist casualties every year ( we don't now have) rather than give up our freedoms, and righties scream.

At first I thought that wasn't an apt comparison, because there was no opposite "good" from terrorist related deaths. But on second glance I think that if we want to continue to enjoy the same foreign policy we have for the past 40 years, we do have to realize that it generates radical hatred in some parts of the world that may lead to terrorism related deaths. But that doesn't mean we give up our foreign policy (guns,) it means that we attempt to mitigate those deaths through other means, such as foreign aggression and invasion (concealed carry?) But in the end, there will always be some terrorism related deaths.

 

[xj0hnx]

And yet, say that we need to be comfortable with a certain level of terrorist casualties every year ( we don't now have) rather than give up our freedoms, and righties scream.

99% of things Craig234 says are lies, the other 1% no one cares to remember.

 

[xj0hnx]

Of course they are not, are you to daft to follow how i used nukes to represent legal firearms and TATP to represent illegal firerarms? Jesus christ xj0hnx, have you been doing crank or something? You used to be a lot brighter than you are right now.

We aren't making analogies, and people that compare, or try to use nuclear weapons as a strawman in the civilian firearms debate are just slightly less able to form comprehensive thoughts than a five year old.

So gun control laws aren't strict enough or not enforced enough? Wow, i was kinda just saying that when you started yapping like the little corgi you are...

Sometimes they are, sometimes they aren't. Personally I think they are way too strict, well not the acquiring parts, but the restrictions on what we can own. The fact is that there are already plenty of effective firearms laws, not a single one of which does anything to stop a criminal because criminals do not follow the laws. It's funny that you call me a corgi but yet can't understand a concept that young children can follow.

But in reality, i could, when i arrive in the US, buy a second hand firearm, the seller has no fucking clue who i am and is not required to do sheit more than take my word for what i tell him.

No, not legally you couldn't, but because private sales do not require background checks you could get away with it. Now the actual important part ...are you going to commit a crime? If not ...who cares, have fun go shoot some shit, if you are than guess what, even though it's against the law you still did it, amazing how that works huh ...criminals don't follow laws. See response to part one again if need some help comprehending that.

Well the first step would be to restrict access to guns, just because a gun has the serial number filed off doesn't mean it was not legally purchased, make sure those who buy guns have an actual use for them more than leaving them around the house fully loaded while they go on their daily lives, a gun safe is a good place for a gun.

Second step, stop all second hand private sales, you'll need to go through an arms dealer to sell your gun and the buyer will have to be checked up properly.

Those are two things that would have stopped most of the incidents mentioned up above, sure it would inconvenience some innocent people, but then again, you need a proper drivers license to drive a car and that is also an inconvenience.

Those two things wouldn't do anything what so ever to stop criminals. The first one is just stupid as all Americans have a use for them, self defense, hunting, target shooting, collecting, exercising our Constitutional rights and on, and on. We fill out our NFA forms with "All legal purposes". So with the failure of number one, let move on to numero dois

And wow, if we make private sales illegal I guess criminals are just going to be like "Oh dude, can't sell to you/buy from you, it against the law y0" Brilliant guy simply brilliant.

 

[DrPizza]

Second step, stop all second hand private sales, you'll need to go through an arms dealer to sell your gun and the buyer will have to be checked up properly.

That's a really brilliant idea. While they're at it, maybe they should make it illegal for private sales of cocaine, marijuana,... You know, if someone wants to buy those things, they can go to the drug store. This way, the drug store can inform the person that sales of those substances are illegal (they probably just didn't know) and we can completely eliminate the market for illegal drugs! You're a very smart man.

 

[piasabird]

What about the people in texas being killed by the FBI?
Should you include the Jamestown massacre or mass suicide? Technically they were in another country, but they were americans.

 

[xj0hnx]

What about the people in texas being killed by the FBI?

lolwut!?!

 

[Brigandier]

lolwut!?!

Waco, dur. It's one of the reasons McVeigh did what he did.

 

[xj0hnx]

Waco, dur. It's one of the reasons McVeigh did what he did.

Siddhartha doesn't want to include anything his government overlords did, he only wants incidents when citizens became unhinged, and used guns so he can pretend they are evil.