US guards 'filmed beatings' at terror camp

nickdakick

Platinum Member
Jun 27, 2000
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US guards 'filmed beatings' at terror camp

Senator urges action as Briton reveals Guantanamo abuse

David Rose and Gaby Hinsliff
Sunday May 16, 2004
The Observer

Dozens of videotapes of American guards allegedly engaged in brutal attacks on Guantanamo Bay detainees have been stored and catalogued at the camp, an investigation by The Observer has revealed.

The disclosures, made in an interview with Tarek Dergoul, the fifth British prisoner freed last March, who has been too traumatised to speak until now, prompted demands last night by senior politicians on both sides of the Atlantic to make the videos available immediately.

They say that if the contents are as shocking as Dergoul claims, they will provide final proof that brutality against detainees has become an institutionalised feature of America's war on terror.

In the wake of the furore over the abuses photographed at Abu Ghraib jail in Iraq, US Defence Secretary Donald Rumsfeld has continued to insist they were the work of a few rogue soldiers, and not a systemic problem.

The disclosures come as the top American commander in Iraq, Lieutenant-General Ricardo Sanchez, announced he has barred all coercive interrogation practices, including forcing prisoners into stress positions for long periods and disrupting their sleep, except in very rare circumstances.

British military police made four arrests over allegations that British troops abused Iraqi prisoners. All four men were later released without charge, pending fur ther interviews. It is the case of Dergoul, however, that is likely to be the most damaging. The 26-year-old, from Mile End in east London, spent 22 months at Guantanamo Bay from May 2002. Today he tells The Observer of repeated assaults by Camp Delta's punishment squad, known as the Extreme Reaction Force or ERF.

Their attacks, he says, would be prompted by minor disciplinary infractions, such as refusing to agree to the third cell search in a day - which he describes as an act of deliberate provocation.

Dergoul tells of one assault by a five-man ERF in shocking terms: 'They pepper-sprayed me in the face, and I started vomiting. They pinned me down and attacked me, poking their fingers in my eyes, and forced my head into the toilet pan and flushed.

'They tied me up like a beast and then they were kneeling on me, kicking and punching. Finally they dragged me out of the cell in chains, into the rec[reation] yard, and shaved my beard, my hair, my eyebrows.'

After their release last March, Shafiq Rasul, Asif Iqbal and Ruhal Ahmed, the so-called Tipton Three from Staffordshire, told of similar ERF attacks.

Rasul said they led to a new verb being coined by detainees: 'to be ERFed'. That, he said, meant being slammed against a floor by a soldier wielding a riot shield, pinned to the ground and beaten up by five armed men.

However, it is Dergoul who now reveals that every time the ERFs were deployed, a sixth team member recorded on digital video everything that happened.

Lieutenant Colonel Leon Sumpter, the Guantanamo Joint Task Force spokesman, confirmed this last night, saying all ERF actions were filmed so they could be 'reviewed' by senior officers. All the tapes are kept in an archive there, he said. He refused to say how many times the ERF squads had been used and would not discuss their training or rules of engagement, saying: 'We do not discuss operational aspects of the Joint Task Force mission.'

The Observer can also now disclose that a British military interrogator posted to the now notorious Abu Ghraib abuse jail raised the alarm about maltreatment of detainees by US troops as long ago as last March.

While ministers insisted last week that the three Britons working in the jail did not see any of the systematic and sadistic abuse, an unnamed lieutenant - a debriefer trained to deal only with co-operative witnesses - made an official complaint to US authorities after seeing what he considered to be 'rough handling' of prisoners.

But it is the revelations about Guantanamo Bay that are the most damaging for a White House desperately trying to draw a line under the Iraq abuse allegations.

Senator Patrick Leahy, the senior Democrat on the Senate Judiciary Committee, who has been an outspoken critic of the Abu Ghraib abuse, said he would demand that Rumsfeld must produce the videos this week.

'Congressional oversight of this administration has been lax in many areas, including detention policy in Iraq, Afghanistan and Guantanamo,' Leahy said. 'It is past time for that to change. If photos, videotapes or any other evidence exists that can help establish whether or not there has been mistreatment of prisoners at Guantanamo Bay, it should be provided without delay to Congress.

'I have asked the Pentagon for sufficient information to allow Congress to evaluate the effectiveness and propriety of the treatment of those in our custody. Pentagon officials owe the Congress a comprehensive response. I have made clear that compliance must include any tapes or photos of the activities of the ERF or any other military or intelligence units there.'

In London, Menzies Campbell, the Liberal Democrat deputy leader, said: 'The Government must demand that these videos be delivered up, and the truth of these very serious allegations properly determined once and for all.

'The videos provide an unequalled opportunity to check the veracity of what Mr Dergoul and the other former detainees are saying.'

I'll NOT comment on this it's just FYI.
 

ShinX

Senior member
Dec 1, 2003
300
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i'm not surprised , you think ppl in the military are sane like you and i ? just take a look at some of the women in the military ,they have more testosterone than some of the men . And they are unstable in the head to boot. No one in the military is in the right state of mind , it is an aggression farm so they'll have to take it out on someone. and who's better to take it out on than the enemy ? (bush) i bet you'll see plenty more of this prisoner abuse in the upcoming future.
 

ThePresence

Elite Member
Nov 19, 2001
27,727
16
81
Originally posted by: ShinX
i'm not surprised , you think ppl in the military are sane like you and i ? just take a look at some of the women in the military ,they have more testosterone than some of the men . And they are unstable in the head to boot. No one in the military is in the right state of mind , it is an aggression farm so they'll have to take it out on someone. and who's better to take it out on than the enemy ? (bush) i bet you'll see plenty more of this prisoner abuse in the upcoming future.
You stand up and dirty the name the community of people who are the very reason you are living in a free country. You are an ungrateful prick.
 

etech

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
10,597
0
0
What rock did you crawl out from under?

It's obvious that you know nothing about the military or the people in it.
 

Lonyo

Lifer
Aug 10, 2002
21,938
6
81
If you look to a psychological study, carried out in the US, the Zimbardo prison study, it suggests that people do not act in ways due to predisposition to that manner, but because of the situation they end up in.
People who join the military, even if they would behave normally in most circumstances, may just chnge when they put on their uniform and face people with whom their entire country is a little peeved. Even if they are only suspects. The stress would probably quite easily get to them.
 

ShinX

Senior member
Dec 1, 2003
300
0
0
look at the situation now , troops want out of that hell hole , they see they're friends being blown up everyday. thats enough to drive anyone insane
 

Klixxer

Diamond Member
Apr 7, 2004
6,149
0
0
Originally posted by: ThePresence
Originally posted by: ShinX
i'm not surprised , you think ppl in the military are sane like you and i ? just take a look at some of the women in the military ,they have more testosterone than some of the men . And they are unstable in the head to boot. No one in the military is in the right state of mind , it is an aggression farm so they'll have to take it out on someone. and who's better to take it out on than the enemy ? (bush) i bet you'll see plenty more of this prisoner abuse in the upcoming future.
You stand up and dirty the name the community of people who are the very reason you are living in a free country. You are an ungrateful prick.

I will second that remark.
 

Klixxer

Diamond Member
Apr 7, 2004
6,149
0
0
Originally posted by: ShinX
look at the situation now , troops want out of that hell hole , they see they're friends being blown up everyday. thats enough to drive anyone insane

You are dragging the entire military force through the mud with your comments, there have been a few bad eggs, it is not uncommon, but they are few.

This is because of bad leadership, if you had ANY military experience you would know that, you don't so STFU!
 

CanOWorms

Lifer
Jul 3, 2001
12,404
2
0
Originally posted by: ThePresence
Originally posted by: ShinX
i'm not surprised , you think ppl in the military are sane like you and i ? just take a look at some of the women in the military ,they have more testosterone than some of the men . And they are unstable in the head to boot. No one in the military is in the right state of mind , it is an aggression farm so they'll have to take it out on someone. and who's better to take it out on than the enemy ? (bush) i bet you'll see plenty more of this prisoner abuse in the upcoming future.
You stand up and dirty the name the community of people who are the very reason you are living in a free country. You are an ungrateful prick.

How are people fighting in Iraq allowing us to live in a free country? Just wondering.

Personally, I think all of society works together to allow itself to be free. A lot of soldiers are nothing but grunts. Almost anyone can be a soldier. They can't do anything without the engineer to design their weapons and systems. A lot fewer people can be an engineer than a soldier. Where would the engineer be without doctors? etc.

People put soldiers, police officers, teachers, and other occupations on pillars and worship them. I certainly don't.
 

Klixxer

Diamond Member
Apr 7, 2004
6,149
0
0
Originally posted by: nickdakick
Link


US guards 'filmed beatings' at terror camp

Senator urges action as Briton reveals Guantanamo abuse

David Rose and Gaby Hinsliff
Sunday May 16, 2004
The Observer

Dozens of videotapes of American guards allegedly engaged in brutal attacks on Guantanamo Bay detainees have been stored and catalogued at the camp, an investigation by The Observer has revealed.

The disclosures, made in an interview with Tarek Dergoul, the fifth British prisoner freed last March, who has been too traumatised to speak until now, prompted demands last night by senior politicians on both sides of the Atlantic to make the videos available immediately.

They say that if the contents are as shocking as Dergoul claims, they will provide final proof that brutality against detainees has become an institutionalised feature of America's war on terror.

In the wake of the furore over the abuses photographed at Abu Ghraib jail in Iraq, US Defence Secretary Donald Rumsfeld has continued to insist they were the work of a few rogue soldiers, and not a systemic problem.

The disclosures come as the top American commander in Iraq, Lieutenant-General Ricardo Sanchez, announced he has barred all coercive interrogation practices, including forcing prisoners into stress positions for long periods and disrupting their sleep, except in very rare circumstances.

British military police made four arrests over allegations that British troops abused Iraqi prisoners. All four men were later released without charge, pending fur ther interviews. It is the case of Dergoul, however, that is likely to be the most damaging. The 26-year-old, from Mile End in east London, spent 22 months at Guantanamo Bay from May 2002. Today he tells The Observer of repeated assaults by Camp Delta's punishment squad, known as the Extreme Reaction Force or ERF.

Their attacks, he says, would be prompted by minor disciplinary infractions, such as refusing to agree to the third cell search in a day - which he describes as an act of deliberate provocation.

Dergoul tells of one assault by a five-man ERF in shocking terms: 'They pepper-sprayed me in the face, and I started vomiting. They pinned me down and attacked me, poking their fingers in my eyes, and forced my head into the toilet pan and flushed.

'They tied me up like a beast and then they were kneeling on me, kicking and punching. Finally they dragged me out of the cell in chains, into the rec[reation] yard, and shaved my beard, my hair, my eyebrows.'

After their release last March, Shafiq Rasul, Asif Iqbal and Ruhal Ahmed, the so-called Tipton Three from Staffordshire, told of similar ERF attacks.

Rasul said they led to a new verb being coined by detainees: 'to be ERFed'. That, he said, meant being slammed against a floor by a soldier wielding a riot shield, pinned to the ground and beaten up by five armed men.

However, it is Dergoul who now reveals that every time the ERFs were deployed, a sixth team member recorded on digital video everything that happened.

Lieutenant Colonel Leon Sumpter, the Guantanamo Joint Task Force spokesman, confirmed this last night, saying all ERF actions were filmed so they could be 'reviewed' by senior officers. All the tapes are kept in an archive there, he said. He refused to say how many times the ERF squads had been used and would not discuss their training or rules of engagement, saying: 'We do not discuss operational aspects of the Joint Task Force mission.'

The Observer can also now disclose that a British military interrogator posted to the now notorious Abu Ghraib abuse jail raised the alarm about maltreatment of detainees by US troops as long ago as last March.

While ministers insisted last week that the three Britons working in the jail did not see any of the systematic and sadistic abuse, an unnamed lieutenant - a debriefer trained to deal only with co-operative witnesses - made an official complaint to US authorities after seeing what he considered to be 'rough handling' of prisoners.

But it is the revelations about Guantanamo Bay that are the most damaging for a White House desperately trying to draw a line under the Iraq abuse allegations.

Senator Patrick Leahy, the senior Democrat on the Senate Judiciary Committee, who has been an outspoken critic of the Abu Ghraib abuse, said he would demand that Rumsfeld must produce the videos this week.

'Congressional oversight of this administration has been lax in many areas, including detention policy in Iraq, Afghanistan and Guantanamo,' Leahy said. 'It is past time for that to change. If photos, videotapes or any other evidence exists that can help establish whether or not there has been mistreatment of prisoners at Guantanamo Bay, it should be provided without delay to Congress.

'I have asked the Pentagon for sufficient information to allow Congress to evaluate the effectiveness and propriety of the treatment of those in our custody. Pentagon officials owe the Congress a comprehensive response. I have made clear that compliance must include any tapes or photos of the activities of the ERF or any other military or intelligence units there.'

In London, Menzies Campbell, the Liberal Democrat deputy leader, said: 'The Government must demand that these videos be delivered up, and the truth of these very serious allegations properly determined once and for all.

'The videos provide an unequalled opportunity to check the veracity of what Mr Dergoul and the other former detainees are saying.'

I'll NOT comment on this it's just FYI.

This is, of course, disgusting, but remember that there are 135000 soldiers over there, these were the actions of 5-10 soldiers who will face charges for their actions.

No war zone is free from things like these, Libya wasn't, neither was Bosnia, Kosovo or Afghanistan.
 

ShinX

Senior member
Dec 1, 2003
300
0
0
you know i'm right , were those terrorists who beheaded Berg in the right state of mind ? obviously not. there has to be a push / shove factor
say corrupt military ppl torture terrorist pow , insane terrorist torture US troop pow . its a tooth for eye thang goin on. One word sums it up : Extremists. you can find them wherever there is a belief in some thing. and yes , even our wonderful country has them, for those weak minded spoon fed tards
 

Klixxer

Diamond Member
Apr 7, 2004
6,149
0
0
Originally posted by: CanOWorms
Originally posted by: ThePresence
Originally posted by: ShinX
i'm not surprised , you think ppl in the military are sane like you and i ? just take a look at some of the women in the military ,they have more testosterone than some of the men . And they are unstable in the head to boot. No one in the military is in the right state of mind , it is an aggression farm so they'll have to take it out on someone. and who's better to take it out on than the enemy ? (bush) i bet you'll see plenty more of this prisoner abuse in the upcoming future.
You stand up and dirty the name the community of people who are the very reason you are living in a free country. You are an ungrateful prick.

How are people fighting in Iraq allowing us to live in a free country? Just wondering.

Personally, I think all of society works together to allow itself to be free. A lot of soldiers are nothing but grunts. Almost anyone can be a soldier. They can't do anything without the engineer to design their weapons and systems. A lot fewer people can be an engineer than a soldier. Where would the engineer be without doctors? etc.

People put soldiers, police officers, teachers, and other occupations on pillars and worship them. I certainly don't.

He generalized (no specifics about Iraq), you know, like you usually do.

Almost anyone can be a soldier? so i assume you are one, since you know so much about it. People who risk their lifes so that you don't have to, and you do not respect them, thankfully, there are few of your kind too.
 

Klixxer

Diamond Member
Apr 7, 2004
6,149
0
0
Originally posted by: ShinX
you know i'm right , were those terrorists who beheaded Berg in the right state of mind ? obviously not. there has to be a push / shove factor
say corrupt military ppl torture terrorist pow , insane terrorist torture US troop pow . its a tooth for eye thang goin on. One word sums it up : Extremists. you can find them wherever there is a belief in some thing. and yes , even our wonderful country has them, for those weak minded spoon fed tards

As i said, they are the few, the rest deserve your respect, i will not argue that those who do wrong should not be punished, i am just saying that there are few of them.

To disrespect all of the armed forces because there are a few rotten eggs is just stupid, and that is what you are, stupid.
 

CanOWorms

Lifer
Jul 3, 2001
12,404
2
0
Originally posted by: Klixxer
Originally posted by: CanOWorms
Originally posted by: ThePresence
Originally posted by: ShinX
i'm not surprised , you think ppl in the military are sane like you and i ? just take a look at some of the women in the military ,they have more testosterone than some of the men . And they are unstable in the head to boot. No one in the military is in the right state of mind , it is an aggression farm so they'll have to take it out on someone. and who's better to take it out on than the enemy ? (bush) i bet you'll see plenty more of this prisoner abuse in the upcoming future.
You stand up and dirty the name the community of people who are the very reason you are living in a free country. You are an ungrateful prick.

How are people fighting in Iraq allowing us to live in a free country? Just wondering.

Personally, I think all of society works together to allow itself to be free. A lot of soldiers are nothing but grunts. Almost anyone can be a soldier. They can't do anything without the engineer to design their weapons and systems. A lot fewer people can be an engineer than a soldier. Where would the engineer be without doctors? etc.

People put soldiers, police officers, teachers, and other occupations on pillars and worship them. I certainly don't.

He generalized (no specifics about Iraq), you know, like you usually do.

Almost anyone can be a soldier? so i assume you are one, since you know so much about it. People who risk their lifes so that you don't have to, and you do not respect them, thankfully, there are few of your kind too.

No, I'm not one. Yes, almost anyone can be one. It doesn't have high requirements to be in the armed forces.

It's a lot easier to be a run-of-the-mill soldier than a doctor, engineer, lawyer, etc.

I don't give anyone automatic respect. Unlike some people here, I don't worship soldiers, police officers, firemen, teachers, etc. I think the average engineer or doctor serves his country & society much more and better than the average soldier.
 

ShinX

Senior member
Dec 1, 2003
300
0
0
hey stfu i didnt insult you . you happen to have misunderstood me . CORRUPT MILITARY PPL and INSANE TERRORISTS. read before you open ur hole. i want the troops back here just as much as anyone , no one deserves to suffer the pain of fighting for bush.
 

arsbanned

Banned
Dec 12, 2003
4,853
0
0
hey stfu i didnt insult you . you happen to have misunderstood me . CORRUPT MILITARY PPL and INSANE TERRORISTS. read before you open ur hole. i want the troops back here just as much as anyone , no one deserves to suffer the pain of fighting for bush.

No, you made a sweeping generalization about all military people. A very stupid remark, and you should just stop trying to talk your way out of it and be quiet, if you cannot admit it.
 

ShinX

Senior member
Dec 1, 2003
300
0
0
how would you know what i meant ? i just made a mistake , are you gonna behead me for that ?
 

arsbanned

Banned
Dec 12, 2003
4,853
0
0
It's this thing called communication? You write stuff, others read it, and information is thereby shared?
No, no beheading will be necessary in this case.