US fires missiles into Somalia

[Nitemare]

http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/.../somalia.us/index.html

Repeat of last year it looks like

 

[jonks]

Black Hawk Down was an awesome flick. Sequel? "This time it's personal."

 

[beyoku]

Sucks they killed civilians. This is not good for our African Relations, pretty sure this is cause issues in Ethiopia and Kenya.
And as Ethiopia is a partner in crime with the War on Terrorism(TM) and actually started a war with Somalia not to long ago....... i see a bus bomb in their future.

 

[heyheybooboo]

I wonder what kind of missiles they were?

Can I have one instead of a tax rebate? Those dang pesky rabbits are asking for it ...

 

[bbdub333]

Just reduced the AIDS rate in Africa no doubt. GG.

 

[palehorse]

Originally posted by: beyoku
Sucks they allegedly killed civilians...

Fixed.

 

[Auric]

Cruise missiles and AC-130 howitzers are ever so discriminating.

 

[FoBoT]

this article says they were targeting a specific al-Qaeda terrorist

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/...0dACFUgCuT4&refer=home

 

[Safeway]

Originally posted by: palehorse74

Originally posted by: beyoku
Sucks they allegedly killed alleged civilians...

Fixed.

Fixed.

 

[jonks]

Allegedly Originally posted by: Safeway

Allegedly Originally posted by: palehorse74

AllegedlyOriginally posted by: beyoku
Sucks they allegedly killed alleged civilians...

Allegedly Fixed.

Allegedly Fixed.

 

[GroundedSailor]

Wag the Dog!!

Bad economic news every day & elections coming up.

 

[Jaskalas]

Originally posted by: FoBoT
this article says they were targeting a specific al-Qaeda terrorist

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/...0dACFUgCuT4&refer=home

With the support of such strikes split down party lines.

 

[Safeway]

Originally posted by: sirjonk

Allegedly Originally posted by: Safeway

Allegedly Originally posted by: palehorse74

AllegedlyOriginally posted by: beyoku
Sucks they allegedly killed alleged civilians...

Allegedly Fixed.

Allegedly Fixed.

Good job being thorough with the skepticism.

 

[piasabird]

Any house or village that willingly allows terrorists to stay has no civilians. In Africa they often train boys under 10 to be soldiers. Al-Qaeda and Muslim Extremists are a very evil lot. They start by brainwashing people and then by using fear tactics to make everyone bend to their will. Then anyone that does not obey is simply beheaded in the name of Allah. Beware of muslim extremists, or you life will become a living hell. God is the author of freedom, not of Hatred and Murder. Beware the evil that men do to get power in whatever form it takes.

 

[ericlp]

Yeah and lets not forget how accurate are weapons are. I can't remember but I think it was lucky to get 60/40 depending on the weapon... I guess a tad better then carpet bombing....

 

[palehorse]

Originally posted by: ericlp
Yeah and lets not forget how accurate are weapons are. I can't remember but I think it was lucky to get 60/40 depending on the weapon... I guess a tad better then carpet bombing....

Do you suggest that we simply let the terrorists go on living... and killing?

Come on folks, don't be so damn coy.. Spell out your suggested alternatives.

 

[Throckmorton]

Originally posted by: piasabird
Any house or village that willingly allows terrorists to stay has no civilians. In Africa they often train boys under 10 to be soldiers. Al-Qaeda and Muslim Extremists are a very evil lot. They start by brainwashing people and then by using fear tactics to make everyone bend to their will. Then anyone that does not obey is simply beheaded in the name of Allah. Beware of muslim extremists, or you life will become a living hell. God is the author of freedom, not of Hatred and Murder. Beware the evil that men do to get power in whatever form it takes.

If a well armed Al Qaeda member came to stay in your village and threatened your kids, what would you do? Walk 10 days to the nearest town to report him to authorities who don't do anything and go back to find your children dead?

Killing individuals with a missile that also takes out civilians is the most absurd thing I've ever heard of.

It's like Israel/Palestine. The only difference between Israeli and Palestinian rocket attacks is some of the Israeli rockets happen to kill some terrorists.

 

[palehorse]

Originally posted by: Throckmorton

Originally posted by: piasabird
Any house or village that willingly allows terrorists to stay has no civilians. In Africa they often train boys under 10 to be soldiers. Al-Qaeda and Muslim Extremists are a very evil lot. They start by brainwashing people and then by using fear tactics to make everyone bend to their will. Then anyone that does not obey is simply beheaded in the name of Allah. Beware of muslim extremists, or you life will become a living hell. God is the author of freedom, not of Hatred and Murder. Beware the evil that men do to get power in whatever form it takes.

If a well armed Al Qaeda member came to stay in your village and threatened your kids, what would you do? Walk 10 days to the nearest town to report him to authorities who don't do anything and go back to find your children dead?

Killing individuals with a missile that also takes out civilians is the most absurd thing I've ever heard of.

It's like Israel/Palestine. The only difference between Israeli and Palestinian rocket attacks is some of the Israeli rockets happen to kill some terrorists.

Well, since we dont have any Ninjas on call, that I'm aware of, what is your suggested method of killing said AQ members when we discover them living in some random village in BFE?

Just curious...

 

[Throckmorton]

Originally posted by: palehorse74

Originally posted by: Throckmorton

Originally posted by: piasabird
Any house or village that willingly allows terrorists to stay has no civilians. In Africa they often train boys under 10 to be soldiers. Al-Qaeda and Muslim Extremists are a very evil lot. They start by brainwashing people and then by using fear tactics to make everyone bend to their will. Then anyone that does not obey is simply beheaded in the name of Allah. Beware of muslim extremists, or you life will become a living hell. God is the author of freedom, not of Hatred and Murder. Beware the evil that men do to get power in whatever form it takes.

If a well armed Al Qaeda member came to stay in your village and threatened your kids, what would you do? Walk 10 days to the nearest town to report him to authorities who don't do anything and go back to find your children dead?

Killing individuals with a missile that also takes out civilians is the most absurd thing I've ever heard of.

It's like Israel/Palestine. The only difference between Israeli and Palestinian rocket attacks is some of the Israeli rockets happen to kill some terrorists.

Well, since we dont have any Ninjas on call, that I'm aware of, what is your suggested method of killing said AQ members when we discover them living in some random village in BFE?

Just curious...

Isn't Delta Force better than ninjas?

I just don't see the logic in killing a terrorist if it means taking civilian lives. To me that defeats the purpose, but that's because I value a Somalian life as much as an American one.

 

[jonks]

Originally posted by: piasabird
God is the author of freedom, not of Hatred and Murder.

Didn't god kick out our alleged ancestors from the garden for seeking knowledge? He doesn't sound like a big supporter of freedom to me.

 

[jonks]

Originally posted by: Throckmorton

Killing individuals with a missile that also takes out civilians is the most absurd thing I've ever heard of.

If the enemy set up in a few dozen houses on the canadian border (and either a) tied the resident families up in the corner, or b) the families didn't try to stop them) and were launching rocket after rocket into upstate ny, each rocket killing americans, we shouldn't take out the houses by missile but should risk US soldier lives in doing house to house searches, all the while they continue to launch rockets into america? Please tell me you have no military authority in any country.

 

[Throckmorton]

Originally posted by: sirjonk

Originally posted by: Throckmorton

Killing individuals with a missile that also takes out civilians is the most absurd thing I've ever heard of.

If the enemy set up in a few dozen houses on the canadian border (and either a) tied the resident families up in the corner, or b) the families didn't try to stop them) and were launching rocket after rocket into upstate ny, each rocket killing americans, we shouldn't take out the houses by missile but should risk US soldier lives in doing house to house searches, all the while they continue to launch rockets into america? Please tell me you have no military authority in any country.

Ask the soldiers if they'd rather go house to house and try to save those lives or just bomb everybody. I'd have to decide based on how many civilians they were killing. In the case of Israel and Palestine, more civilians died as a result of Israel's retaliation IIRC. So it's not like you choose between 1000 civilians dying, and 3 hostages in a house dying.

I have no military authority, and thank goodness. I don't want to ever have to decide who lives and who dies.

 

[palehorse]

Originally posted by: Throckmorton

Originally posted by: palehorse74

Originally posted by: Throckmorton

Originally posted by: piasabird
Any house or village that willingly allows terrorists to stay has no civilians. In Africa they often train boys under 10 to be soldiers. Al-Qaeda and Muslim Extremists are a very evil lot. They start by brainwashing people and then by using fear tactics to make everyone bend to their will. Then anyone that does not obey is simply beheaded in the name of Allah. Beware of muslim extremists, or you life will become a living hell. God is the author of freedom, not of Hatred and Murder. Beware the evil that men do to get power in whatever form it takes.

If a well armed Al Qaeda member came to stay in your village and threatened your kids, what would you do? Walk 10 days to the nearest town to report him to authorities who don't do anything and go back to find your children dead?

Killing individuals with a missile that also takes out civilians is the most absurd thing I've ever heard of.

It's like Israel/Palestine. The only difference between Israeli and Palestinian rocket attacks is some of the Israeli rockets happen to kill some terrorists.

Well, since we dont have any Ninjas on call, that I'm aware of, what is your suggested method of killing said AQ members when we discover them living in some random village in BFE?

Just curious...

Isn't Delta Force better than ninjas?

You've seen too many movies. Our troops are good, but they can't be everywhere all the time. And, perhaps more importantly, if a commander can solve a problem without placing his soldiers in harms way, he will.

Would you prefer a small SOF raid into Somalia that results in one or two fewer civilian casualties, but also leads to the deaths of 2-3 US soldiers as well? Would that make you feel any better?

Or perhaps just let the terrorists go on living and killing?!

I just don't see the logic in killing a terrorist if it means taking civilian lives.

If killing a high-level terrorist prevents the future deaths of hundreds, or perhaps even thousands, of other innocent lives, does the cost of a few innocent casualties become worth it?

The laws of land warfare present leaders with these decisions based on proportionality and other factors that are measured to determine the best, and most humane, solutions. This decision process is one of the ideals that separates the U.S. from its enemies; and, more often than not, such attacks are canceled, and different solutions are worked out.

Sometimes, however, the trigger must be pulled.

To me that defeats the purpose, but that's because I value a Somalian life as much as an American one.

All life is equally precious, sure; but, that is exactly why killing a few, to save many, is the right thing to do.

Also, try explaining that to a troop commander of any kind -- if he's any good, at all, the lives of his troops are more important than anything else in the world. You better have a damn good reason for him to send them into harm's way.

It's certainly not an easy call to make, and it's not even the most common call made, but reality mandates that sometimes "precision" missile attacks just need to be done. periood.

 

[JTsyo]

We might have prevented some future attacks but how do we know that this attack won't encourage others in the village that the US to take up arms against the evil Americans that would slaughter indiscriminatingly. It's a fine line to walk. Personally I would rather let a terrorist live than kill innocents. If it's a terrorist camp, sure go ahead and carpet bomb it, even if there might be civilians working there. But in the case of a village, I would wait for a better opportunity. Though at the end it's not my call and we don't have all the facts. We have to count on others to make the right call.

 

[Throckmorton]

Originally posted by: palehorse74

Originally posted by: Throckmorton

Originally posted by: palehorse74

Originally posted by: Throckmorton

Originally posted by: piasabird
Any house or village that willingly allows terrorists to stay has no civilians. In Africa they often train boys under 10 to be soldiers. Al-Qaeda and Muslim Extremists are a very evil lot. They start by brainwashing people and then by using fear tactics to make everyone bend to their will. Then anyone that does not obey is simply beheaded in the name of Allah. Beware of muslim extremists, or you life will become a living hell. God is the author of freedom, not of Hatred and Murder. Beware the evil that men do to get power in whatever form it takes.

If a well armed Al Qaeda member came to stay in your village and threatened your kids, what would you do? Walk 10 days to the nearest town to report him to authorities who don't do anything and go back to find your children dead?

Killing individuals with a missile that also takes out civilians is the most absurd thing I've ever heard of.

It's like Israel/Palestine. The only difference between Israeli and Palestinian rocket attacks is some of the Israeli rockets happen to kill some terrorists.

Well, since we dont have any Ninjas on call, that I'm aware of, what is your suggested method of killing said AQ members when we discover them living in some random village in BFE?

Just curious...

Isn't Delta Force better than ninjas?

You've seen too many movies. Our troops are good, but they can't be everywhere all the time. And, perhaps more importantly, if a commander can solve a problem without placing his soldiers in harms way, he will.

Would you prefer a small SOF raid into Somalia that results in one or two fewer civilian casualties, but also leads to the deaths of 2-3 US soldiers as well? Would that make you feel any better?

Or perhaps just go on letting the terrorists go on living and killing?!

I just don't see the logic in killing a terrorist if it means taking civilian lives.

If killing a high-level terrorist prevents the future deaths of hundreds, or perhaps even thousands, of other innocent lives, does the cost of a few innocent casualties become worth it?

The laws of land warfare present leaders with these decisions based on proportionality and other factors that are measured to determine the best, and most humane, solutions. This decision process is one of the ideals that separates the U.S. from its enemies; and, more often than not, such attacks are canceled, and different solutions are worked out.

Sometimes, however, the trigger must be pulled.

To me that defeats the purpose, but that's because I value a Somalian life as much as an American one.

All life is equally precious, sure; but, that is exactly why killing a few, to save many, is the right thing to do.

Also, try explaining that to a troop commander of any kind -- if he's any good, at all, the lives of his troops are more important than anything else in the world. You better have a damn good reason for him to send them into harm's way.

It's certainly not an easy call to make, and it's not even the most common call made, but reality mandates that sometimes "precision" missile attacks just need to be done. periood.

Killing a few to save many is a logical course of action but I'm not sure it works that way with terrorist organizations like Al Qaeda. To me it's seems like chopping a head off a hydra... except even if you slice all of them off it will still be able to kill you. Does taking out an AQ leader really save lives? Not only that, but then a few more dirt poor Somalian kids are ripe for the picking by AQIf one of those kids kills 50 innocents, how does that fit in the equation?