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US Embassy in Pakistan under attack

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Orignal Earl

Diamond Member
Oct 27, 2005
8,059
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If I understand you correctly, you're saying that no one has claimed the Benghazi attack was caused by the film trailer.

The Obama admin trotted out UN Ambassador on a bunch of Sunday news shows to made exactly that claim.

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/09/16/13896494-ambassador-rice-benghazi-attack-began-spontaneously?lite



Fern
Yes, I was going on the wiki link which says

An armed attack on the U.S. consulate in Benghazi, Libya, on September 11, 2012 that resulted in the murder of U.S. Ambassador J. Christopher Stevens and three other Americans, may not have been related to the protest of the film, but rather may have been a terrorist attack planned in advance, according the U.S. and Libyan officials.[
Thank you for the link

I see in your link though, the Libyan President still thinks it was AQ
 

Orignal Earl

Diamond Member
Oct 27, 2005
8,059
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Oh wait now..

In Benghazi, Rice told “Meet the Press” host David Gregory, “Opportunistic extremist elements came to the consulate as this was unfolding, they came with heavy weapons, which unfortunately are readily available in post-revolutionary Libya, and it escalated into a much more violent episode.”
So what she is saying is that it was terrorists that took advantage of the protests to launch the attack

On September 19 Matthew Olson, director of the National Counterterrorism Center, appeared before the Senate Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs Committee. During the hearing Olsen said that the Americans killed in Libya died “in the course of a terrorist attack.”[52] But he said that "the facts that we have now indicate that this was an opportunistic attack," one in which heavily armed militants took advantage of an ongoing demonstration at the Consulate. Sen. Susan Collins (R-Maine) disagreed with Olsen’s statement that the attack did not appear pre-planned. She said, "Based on the briefings I have had, I’ve come to the opposite conclusion. I just don’t think that people come to protests equipped with RPGs [rocket-propelled grenades] and other heavy weapons. And the reports of complicity—and they are many—with Libyan guards who were assigned to guard the consulate also suggest to me that this was premeditated." The conclusion of a premeditated and coordinated attack on the Consulate was supported by President of Libya Mohammed el-Megarif, in an exclusive interview with National Public Radio in Benghazi on September 16. President el-Megarif said that foreigners had infiltrated Libya in previous months and had planned the attack and used Libyans to carry it out. According to el-Megarif: "The idea that this criminal and cowardly act was a spontaneous protest that just spun out of control is completely unfounded and preposterous. We firmly believe that this was a precalculated, preplanned attack that was carried out specifically to attack the U.S. Consulate."[53] The attackers used the protesters outside the consulate as a cover, according to el-Megarif. He said there is evidence showing that elements of Ansar al-Sharia, an extremist group in eastern Benghazi, were used by foreign citizens with ties to al-Qaida to attack the consulate. Olsen told committee members that the U.S. is "looking at indications" that some attackers had connections to al-Qaeda or its North African affiliate, al-Qaeda in the Islamic Maghreb.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._Consulate_attack_in_Benghazi#US_Government_Response
 

bfdd

Lifer
Feb 3, 2007
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AQ acknowledged they had organized "peaceful protests" and I believe they had given a partial apology for the violence. I believe it was caused by their people, I don't believe it was the intent of their protest. Probably just a few taking advantage of the situation as Earl has posted. That's my take on it at least.
 

Fern

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Sep 30, 2003
26,916
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-snip-
I see in your link though, the Libyan President still thinks it was AQ
I think everyone now believes it was AQ. In fact, an individual who was in GITMO and later released has been indentified by name and is thought to be the leader of the attack.

I have also seen security footage from the Consulate in Benghazi apparently at the start of the attack and there were NO protesters present, none at all. You see the the terrorists approach the compound with rocket launchers and mortars and no one else is there.

Fern
 

bfdd

Lifer
Feb 3, 2007
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http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5i_nXmwBCLxiTrdLfLqsPtHmKS9Aw?docId=76a5a6b1e1c343428827a63a1063a753

here's a pretty good article from the AP over the situation mostly dealing with Egypt. As we can see the whole violence thing is clearly not what everyone there wants. Doesn't change my opinion that we should still pull out of the region and do business from afar. Less intervention is a good thing.

I should note, I completely disagree with them on laws against blasphemy though and they should go suck a hard one.
 
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randomrogue

Diamond Member
Jan 15, 2011
5,462
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Blasphemy. Is that basically any comment that disagrees with the Koran? Is it broader? Are we not allowed to say anything that is against Islamic teachings, figures, and ideas? It might be time for Muslims to read up on the Spanish Inquisition and how we really want no part in that kind of thinking in our neck of the woods. This is one culture not learning from the mistakes of another. We already went down that road and it was not good. At all.
 

Orignal Earl

Diamond Member
Oct 27, 2005
8,059
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Blasphemy. Is that basically any comment that disagrees with the Koran? Is it broader? Are we not allowed to say anything that is against Islamic teachings, figures, and ideas? It might be time for Muslims to read up on the Spanish Inquisition and how we really want no part in that kind of thinking in our neck of the woods. This is one culture not learning from the mistakes of another. We already went down that road and it was not good. At all.
THAT'S BLASPHEMY !!!

Fox News host wants 'South Park' investigated for blasphemy

http://theclicker.today.com/_news/2012/09/18/13941805-fox-news-host-wants-south-park-investigated-for-blasphemy?lite

There is a lot of people in the US would love to be able to enforce your blasphemy laws.
 

bfdd

Lifer
Feb 3, 2007
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THAT'S BLASPHEMY !!!

Fox News host wants 'South Park' investigated for blasphemy

http://theclicker.today.com/_news/2012/09/18/13941805-fox-news-host-wants-south-park-investigated-for-blasphemy?lite

There is a lot of people in the US would love to be able to enforce your blasphemy laws.
lol you're silly. Please show me all the people who have gone down in recent times for blasphemy in the USA. You really can't, in fact if you had read your entire wiki page of Blasphemy law in the United States, one you linked a day or two ago, you'd realize you're basically speaking out your fucking ass right now.
 

Orignal Earl

Diamond Member
Oct 27, 2005
8,059
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lol you're silly. Please show me all the people who have gone down in recent times for blasphemy in the USA. You really can't, in fact if you had read your entire wiki page of Blasphemy law in the United States, one you linked a day or two ago, you'd realize you're basically speaking out your fucking ass right now.
That would be why I said they would love to be enable to enforce them.
Ya, have another hoot..calm down...breathe and read
 

bfdd

Lifer
Feb 3, 2007
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That would be why I said they would love to be enable to enforce them.
Ya, have another hoot..calm down...breathe and read
yet they don't and they haven't and we have continually shut them the fuck down. I don't see active protests going around trying to get blasphemy laws passed it's basically a non-existent problem you're trying to make some how exist. You're basically stating "Are people assholes everywhere? Yes" duh everyones an asshole thanks mr obvious.
 

Orignal Earl

Diamond Member
Oct 27, 2005
8,059
55
86
yet they don't and they haven't and we have continually shut them the fuck down. I don't see active protests going around trying to get blasphemy laws passed it's basically a non-existent problem you're trying to make some how exist. You're basically stating "Are people assholes everywhere? Yes" duh everyones an asshole thanks mr obvious.
Your welcome
 

railer

Golden Member
Apr 15, 2000
1,462
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yeah, that certainly is "a lot of people", isn't it.

Nevermind, the US is exactly the same as ME countries, facts be damned. We get it.
 

Orignal Earl

Diamond Member
Oct 27, 2005
8,059
55
86

cybrsage

Lifer
Nov 17, 2011
13,021
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Doesn't change my opinion that we should still pull out of the region and do business from afar. Less intervention is a good thing.
Until the oil in the Middle East is not such a vital resource for the survival of our nation, we cannot just do business from afar. It is a sad reality for us.
 

EagleKeeper

Discussion Club Moderator<br>Elite Member
Staff member
Oct 30, 2000
42,599
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Until the oil in the Middle East is not such a vital resource for the survival of our nation, we cannot just do business from afar. It is a sad reality for us.
it would be a hardship on us; but we could adjust.

And either the rest of the world fills in the gap that the US leaves economically to the ME oil or the ME oil will itself suffer.
 
Apr 27, 2012
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Until the oil in the Middle East is not such a vital resource for the survival of our nation, we cannot just do business from afar. It is a sad reality for us.
People make it sound like the US couldnt survive without oil in the Middle East, they would still be able to survive.

You do realize that having US troops there makes the US less safe, they hate us even more and were more likely to suffer terrorist attacks
 

bfdd

Lifer
Feb 3, 2007
13,312
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Until the oil in the Middle East is not such a vital resource for the survival of our nation, we cannot just do business from afar. It is a sad reality for us.
Perception is reality and your perception has been indoctrinated. Fact is we would be fine, we would have to adjust, but we would spur wealth generation and job growth like no other.
 

railer

Golden Member
Apr 15, 2000
1,462
17
81
Honestly?
Do you miss the stories like this everyday?

Mississippi Conservative Calls For Putting Gay People To Death On Facebook Page

http://www.addictinginfo.org/2012/05/19/mississippi-2/
ROFL. 1) That's one single guy. Again, not "a lot of people".
2) He qouted a passage from the bible on his FB page. That guy might be a Jesus-freak, but he didn't directly call for the death of anyone. Nor did he do anything beyond updating his FB page with a bible quote.

No one will dispute that there are random crazy people all around the world. I say this before you spend the next 3 hours of your life scouring the internet trying to find yet another example of somone in the US making a nutty statement about gays, Islam, UFO's, Elvis, etc.
The level of insanity among some demographics is off the scale, that is the point that most people acknowledge.
 

Orignal Earl

Diamond Member
Oct 27, 2005
8,059
55
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ROFL. 1) That's one single guy. Again, not "a lot of people".
2) He qouted a passage from the bible on his FB page. That guy might be a Jesus-freak, but he didn't directly call for the death of anyone. Nor did he do anything beyond updating his FB page with a bible quote.

No one will dispute that there are random crazy people all around the world. I say this before you spend the next 3 hours of your life scouring the internet trying to find yet another example of somone in the US making a nutty statement about gays, Islam, UFO's, Elvis, etc.
The level of insanity among some demographics is off the scale, that is the point that most people acknowledge.
I don't have to scour for 3 hours, I have it bookmarked

http://www.reddit.com/r/atheism/
 

Fern

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Sep 30, 2003
26,916
172
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The amount of apparent disinformation put out by the White House is scandalous. Here's another bit. Don't know yet if it's true:

Furthermore, Fox News has confirmed that the two former Navy SEALs killed in the attack were not working security for the State Department but were in Benghazi for a separate agency. And they were not initially at the consulate -- but a separate facility -- when the main building came under fire last Tuesday night.

These details also appear to conflict with the account given by Rice on ABC's "This Week."

She said: "We had a substantial security presence with our personnel. ... Tragically, two of the four Americans who were killed were there providing security. That was their function. And indeed, there were many other colleagues who were doing the same with them."
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/09/21/lawmakers-to-obama-get-your-story-straight-on-libya-attack/

I have heard a report that the Libyan security guards were not armed (either that, or they didn't have live ammo). Something to the effect that they were not allowed to carry arms in the consulate.

So, we had no Marines there, the 2 ex SEALs were not there for consulate security, and if the Libyans weren't armed just WTH kind of security was there?

The way info about this keeps dripping out, keeps changing etc is suspicious.

I also think it odd that although the situation seems to be escalating, media outlets like MSNBC have shoved this to the back burner. (I went to their site and could not find links to news updates about this situation on their front page.)

Fern
 

bfdd

Lifer
Feb 3, 2007
13,312
1
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This is all fucked and there's egg on a ton of peoples faces. Luckily they have a big enough spin machine to keep us disoriented enough to realize it. It's fucked, our foreign policy is fucked, it doesn't matter if it's Dem or Rep, they're both fucked. Stop perpetuating the stupid shitty system.

Also, a 15+ dead in Pakistan on this Friday over nonsense protests. Sad.
 
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