US economy shrank 0.1% - first time in 3 years.

Discussion in 'Politics and News' started by Engineer, Jan 30, 2013.

  1. s0me0nesmind1

    s0me0nesmind1 Diamond Member

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    Ah - so you think when jobs come back, the top execs are going to say "Bawww right guiz, lets just give ourselves a nice hefty 10% paycut all around, who is with me?!"

    Get fuckin' real. It won't happen. Like I said, I would love to see it, but it's wishful thinking until I see a damn good theory as to why.
     
  2. Genx87

    Genx87 Lifer

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    Do people understand a lot of these jobs arent coming back in the form they hope? There was a 60 mins segment on a few weeks ago discussing jobs are coming back from China. But they come back and a robot does them. You can erect all the walls in the world around our market but that wont stop the elimination of low skill jobs to robots.
     
  3. Texashiker

    Texashiker Lifer

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    What was unemployment like in those areas?

    I dont guess those were union shops?
     
  4. nehalem256

    nehalem256 Lifer

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    People have been losing jobs to machines for 100s of years. This is how productivity increases. And why now people can spend time building computers, tvs, etc instead of manually farming.
     
  5. BoberFett

    BoberFett Lifer

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    Only when the other team is ahead.
     
  6. Matt1970

    Matt1970 Lifer

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    Problem is there aren't enough of us willing to pay extra for Made In America. We made our choice long ago. We chose cheap disposable imported crap over American jobs.
     
  7. Ausm

    Ausm Lifer

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    The Unemployment rate has been typically higher than the National rate due to the loss of High Production tooling manufacturing in the U.S. which started in the 80's. Luckily for the most part the Chinese workmanship is horrendous and this has keep shops open with a plethora of rework in order to get the tools operable.

    The Unemployment rate for "peons" has never been high because if someone can survive that type of work until retirement it would be a miracle. The turnover is very high because the work is grueling.

    With this in mind, some of the largest Plastic parts producers in my area are now getting their tools built in the U.S. because the cost of a Chinese manufactured tool with the inevitable reworked equated to little or no savings at all.

    In regard to Unions, the quality of each Union varies from shop to shop.

    Oh the peons I was referring to in my previous comment are low skilled workers who get the shittiest jobs in a factory.
     
    #32 Ausm, Jan 30, 2013
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2013
  8. Jaskalas

    Jaskalas Lifer

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    Is it government's job to make that choice for us?
     
  9. mshan

    mshan Diamond Member

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    I believe this 4Q GDP report has one time anomalous factors that stock market is already looking past:

    1) drought from summer and destruction of wheat and soybeans (soybeans are our major export to China. IIRC, Boeing aircraft and agricultural products are our major export to Europe)

    2) Hurricane Sandy. Rebuild will act as economic stimulus going forward

    3) hesitancy on part of corporations because didn't know who president was going to be and rhetoric over fiscal cliff and whether Congress would push us into recession early this year

     
    #34 mshan, Jan 30, 2013
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2013
  10. EagleKeeper

    EagleKeeper Discussion Club Moderator<br>Elite Member
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    Increase wages costs a company $$.

    Companies increase prices to cover such costs.

    Increased prices for consumer goods.

    Who is paying for such?
     
  11. Ausm

    Ausm Lifer

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    Consumers?
     
  12. Engineer

    Engineer Elite Member

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    Companies offshore jobs.

    Companies have cheaper labor costs.

    Company raises prices of goods anyway?

    Who is buying company products? (answer: consumers with lower paying jobs who now use credit....and that's running out).
     
  13. Engineer

    Engineer Elite Member

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    I wonder how many people (engineers, maintenance, etc) it takes to keep all of that stuff running and how many people it takes to build the equipment and program it in the first place? It's not a zero sum game.

    A plant full of robots here making the stuff is still better than importing everything from outside.
     
  14. Genx87

    Genx87 Lifer

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    Sure it takes engineers and a maintenance staff to run them. That part is great.

    But when we discuss offshoring it is usually centered around manufacturing jobs. People who arent white collar and wouldnt get their jobs back when a robot will do it at a fraction of the cost.

    So erecting a wall around our market in some futile effort to stave off the inevitable is a waste of resources. Over the next century we may need to rethink our approach to how an economy is structured when it comes to the people.
     
  15. dmcowen674

    dmcowen674 No Lifer

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    He won re-election, now you get to see the real numbers.
     
  16. fskimospy

    fskimospy Elite Member

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    I'm interested to hear your theory as to what they were doing with the real numbers before.
     
  17. Genx87

    Genx87 Lifer

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    You had to ask lol
     
  18. Texashiker

    Texashiker Lifer

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    With high unemployment wages go down.

    You said the starting wage is around $7.50? What did that same job pay in the 1980s?

    In the 1970s before the shipyards closed here in southeast Texas a welder could make $17 an hour.

    Shipyards closed in the early to mid-1980s. 30 years later wages still have not returned to what they used to be. In the late 1980 and into the 1990s, welders were making something like $10 - $12 an hour.

    Its just been within the past few years that wages in the metal working field here in southeast Texas have made it back to what people were making in the early 1980s. Even though wages have "almost" made it back, inflation has taken such a bite, that people have less buying power then they did 20 years ago.
     
  19. Ausm

    Ausm Lifer

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    Starting wage for the lowest skilled factory jobs in the early 80's were are 3.50/hr with 1 week vacation after 2 years, 2 weeks vacation after 5 years and 3 weeks after 20 years which are typically the same as they are today in regard to vacation time.
     
  20. Franz316

    Franz316 Senior member

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    It makes you wonder how the stock market is near all time highs while the real economy is treading water.

    Where is the massive disconnect coming from, the FED's policies?
     
  21. s0me0nesmind1

    s0me0nesmind1 Diamond Member

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    OH YEAH? Back in my day, we had to walk FIFTEEN miles in the snow EVERY DAY.
     
  22. Matt1970

    Matt1970 Lifer

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    No but plenty of people think it's Government job to right the wrongs of the choices we made.
     
  23. Texashiker

    Texashiker Lifer

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    So in relation to minimum wage, wages have stayed about the same.
     
  24. Matt1970

    Matt1970 Lifer

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    That started in the 70's right at the same time we started running trade deficits.

    Did anyone see the movie "Tucker: The Man and His Dream"? The whole court room laughed at the notion of our car stereos being made in Japan.

    Look where we are now....
     
  25. fskimospy

    fskimospy Elite Member

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    I doubt Dave will share with us his idea about the secret vault where they kept the Real Economic Info. It's probably right next to where they kept the Real Polls where Romney won.