US Diplomatic Convoy Hits Landmine/Roadside Bomb in Gaza 3 Dead

[JackStorm]

Originally posted by: Piano Man
I wonder if this is their response to our UN actions of the past couple days.

That thought has crossed my mind. But unless they're truly sick of the U.S and have given up all hope off peace, I find it a tad hard to belive. But who knows...We'll see what comes up in the comming days.

 

[rahvin]

Originally posted by: JackStorm
But back on subject, attacks like these on diplomats (if this indeed was an attack targeting them and not some random bomb left for the israeli to drive over) seems alot more likely to be al qaeda related than Palestinian extremists. Palestinian groups have nothing to gain by attacking U.S diplomats. And if this indeed was a Palestinian extremist group then they have pretty much signed their own death warrant, they'll be hounded to death. But then again, no conclusive report about who it was, is out, so it could have been anyone really. So there is no point, pointing fingers at the Palestinians (yet).

Whether this attack was perpetraded by an Al Queda plot, Hamas, Islamic Jihad or some radical spliter group the real evidence of Palestinian feelings will be the reation of the Palistinian authority in investigating and bringing to justice those that perpetraded the crime. Nothing goes on the territories without the knowledge of local community members and the PLO can quickly determine the perpetrator of the crime. The action they take or don't take will be indicitive of the true intentions of the PLO.

It is my belief that nothing will be done, the PLO was aware of and allowed the attack to take place. In a little more than a years time Arafat will be expelled and the PLO will likely be dismantled by the Israelies with the blessings of the US administration. The only one to blame for what will happen is the Palestinians and there adamant belief that violence will get them what they want.

 

[prontospyder]

 

[ThePresence]

Originally posted by: lozina

Originally posted by: Nitemare

Originally posted by: lozina
Interesting, no groups claimed responsibility and there is no evidence showing this is linked to Palestinian groups yet people here are so blinded by hatred and bias that they immediately accuse the Palestinians. If this is not prejudism then what is?

I did not know of any other terrorist groups that operated in Palestine. Maybe we should consult the IRA or Chechnyans?

Irgun and Stern gang? What about Mossad, are they your friendly neighbor? Sure, stay blind if you so choose

Haha. The Irgun and Stern Gang were disbanded in 1947. And what exactly is the motive of the Mossad in blowing up US dimplomats?

 

[lozina]

Originally posted by: ThePresence

Originally posted by: lozina

Originally posted by: Nitemare

Originally posted by: lozina
Interesting, no groups claimed responsibility and there is no evidence showing this is linked to Palestinian groups yet people here are so blinded by hatred and bias that they immediately accuse the Palestinians. If this is not prejudism then what is?

I did not know of any other terrorist groups that operated in Palestine. Maybe we should consult the IRA or Chechnyans?

Irgun and Stern gang? What about Mossad, are they your friendly neighbor? Sure, stay blind if you so choose

Haha. The Irgun and Stern Gang were disbanded in 1947. And what exactly is the motive of the Mossad in blowing up US dimplomats?

THe point was, anyone is capable of terrorism, including the Israelis. Besides, we cited Iraqi crimes from 20 years ago as reason to invade, so why can't I cite [known] Israeli terrorist groups from the past?

What could be their motive, possibly to incite American anger towards Palestinians? If I quote Nitemare:

If this happens again they probably won't have to worry about Israel driving them into the sea, the US will do it for them...

What would the Palestinian motive be? To scare the Americans into stop supporting Israel? That is an off-base scenario given the aggressiveness of the current administration, but I'm willing to concede they definitely could indeed be the perpetrators, as other parties could as well.

 

[JackStorm]

Originally posted by: rahvin
Whether this attack was perpetraded by an Al Queda plot, Hamas, Islamic Jihad or some radical spliter group the real evidence of Palestinian feelings will be the reation of the Palistinian authority in investigating and bringing to justice those that perpetraded the crime.

True, and it would be in their own interest to go after the people that did this.

Originally posted by: rahvin
In a little more than a years time Arafat will be expelled and the PLO will likely be dismantled by the Israelies with the blessings of the US administration.

It's this kind of thinking/actions that angers the palestinians and incites violace. It's the thought that the U.S will allow and even welcome whatever the Isreali do, while condeming everything the palestinians do. It angers them (and I've talked to both palestininans and israelis in the area, so I know a bit of how they feel, although not early enough, as i'd like to know) that the Israelis are free to violate U.N resolutions by constantly building new homes on territory that should have been given back to them long ago.

You have to remember. Both sides have done things they shouldn't. The palestinians shouldn't support these terrorists. But at the same time the israelis should stop building houses on land that's supposed to go back to the palestinians.

 

[syzygy]

You have to remember. Both sides have done things that they shouldn't. The palestinians
should not support these terrorists. But at the same time the Isrealis should stop buidling
houses on land that's supposed to go back to the Palestinians

as much as their is support among the palestinian public for these militants, the trouble lies
with any possible sympathy held by the palestinian leadership for these militants. in some
cases, the militants are legitimate palestinian leaders, either elected outright or appointed
from within. the palestinian authority has to exercise their leadership responsibility by crushing
elements that not only undermine their own rule but the prospects for any joint accord with
the isrealis. the economical, political, and sociological imperatives are all on the side of the
p.a. to act decisively against these militants.

ofcourse, the isrealis are not a guilt-free party, by any stretch, but they cannot make any
concessions when palestinian leadership is in disarray. qorei is likely to resign in a few weeks.
arafat, gutless wonder that he is, will have to beg some other fool to assume the puppet
role so his nepotistic enterprise can continue undisturbed. in the background, you have
the militant mass murderers who by remaining above the local political fray maintain their
'purity', relevancy, and importance.
and

 

[JackStorm]

Originally posted by: syzygy

You have to remember. Both sides have done things that they shouldn't. The palestinians
should not support these terrorists. But at the same time the Isrealis should stop buidling
houses on land that's supposed to go back to the Palestinians

as much as their is support among the palestinian public for these militants, the trouble lies
with any possible sympathy held by the palestinian leadership for these militants. in some
cases, the militants are legitimate palestinian leaders, either elected outright or appointed
from within. the palestinian authority has to exercise their leadership responsibility by crushing
elements that not only undermine their own rule but the prospects for any joint accord with
the isrealis. the economical, political, and sociological imperatives are all on the side of the
p.a. to act decisively against these militants.

I agree that this is one of the major problems in the area. On the palestinian side the extremists have come in to possitions of power. And if Arafat (or anyone else for that matter) were to force them out by making an all out offencive against the extremists, it would be a bloody civil within the palestinian goverment. And this in itself is a problem. The palestiniats are unwilling to start a civil war among themself because it would weaken (in some peoples minds) them. Extremists don't just go away quietly (no matter the side) and will never lose their support base unless the people don't want them there anymore, and if you try to force them it always gets bloody. This is why it's so EXTREMLY important for the Israeli to not do anything to anger the people (such as building houses on the land i've talked about earlier). The palestinians are betwean a rock and a hard place. And the extremists wont go away unless the people are against them regardless of what Araft or whatever goverment is in place, does. Aslong as the people are angry the extremists will always have a support base regardless of what the palestinian goverment does.

This is all so horribly tangled up it's frightening. All the problems are so deeply connected to each other. And since i'm a bit of a pessimist, I can't help but have the feeling that this will get ALOT bloodier (on both sides) before it's over. There is no easy way to fix this.

 

[rahvin]

Two things to keep in mind:

1. When Israel finishes construction of the Wall, the line that wall follows will become the defacto boundry of Israel and any future Palistinian state. Through continuing violence the Palestinians encourage the construction of that wall (a wall that is demanded by over 50% of the Israelies). Once construction of the wall is complete Israeli security will be greatly improved and any future Palestinian state will be excluded from the economic centers of Israel. In fact the Palestinian leadership is destroying the future economic prospects of Palestine by continuing a cycle of violence that will result in the isolation of that Palestine.

2. An attack on the diplomats of a nation is considered an act of war. If the PLO condoned or even knew of the attack against the US diplomats then the PLO has commited an act of war against the USA.

 

[JackStorm]

Originally posted by: rahvin


2. An attack on the diplomats of a nation is considered an act of war. If the PLO condoned or even knew of the attack against the US diplomats then the PLO has commited an act of war against the USA.

If they knew, then yes, I agree. But untill we see proof of who did it, and it could be anyone, considering the amount of enemies the U.S seems to be geting lately or it could have been an accident, or even an attack that was ment for the israeli (and that in itself deserves condemnation regardless of what "side" they/you/everyone belong(s) to). But we just don't know who did it, so I'm inclined to wait before I pass judgment on the PLO in regards to this incident.

My point is, before pointing fingers at the PLO, we should wait till we know who did it.

 

[kage69]

Pretty strong words, dontcha think? Has he singled out Arafat by name up to now?

Hrmmmmmm.

 

[JackStorm]

Hrm...strong words indeed. And altough I agree with some of what he said, I don't feel he should be blaming arafat for this specific attack, yet, as the attackers are unknown and could very well be outsiders with no connection to him or the palestinians. And if that is the case, then arafat can't very well be blamed for what happened as the people doing it wheren't under his control.

"The explosion, detonated by a remote-controlled explosive device, occurred as the second vehicle of a three-car convoy had just cleared a checkpoint and entered Gaza, said State Department spokeswoman Brooke Summers. "

Now, this statement worries me a bit, as it looks like someone had planed this attack against the diplomats themselfs, not just the convoy or some random target. Could very well be al qaeda or some other group trying to target important U.S officials or undercover people. But that's just speculation and I shouldn't be going into that untill we know who did this.

I feel that Bush (and everyone) should wait till they know who did this before passing blame. I know I sure as hell am going to wait till the people who did this are found or known. Doing anyhing else would be foolish and rash. And could only lead to more problems.

 

[kage69]

Now, this statement worries me a bit, as it looks like someone had planed this attack against the diplomats themselfs, not just the convoy or some random target. Could very well be al qaeda or some other group trying to target important U.S officials or undercover people. But that's just speculation and I shouldn't be going into that untill we know who did this

Copy that.
Something seems wrong about this one. Hamas, Hezbollah, Al-Aqsa, they use suicide bombers - this attack seems more like something Al Qaeda or Feydayeen would do. I'm not saying terrorists can't change tactics, but it is something to note. The fact that it happened in Gaza does seem to narrow it down to 2 parties though. And yes, I mean I hold Israel under a suspicious eye - they've done worse to us in the past. Prolly safe to rule out Basque Seperatists though...

 

[Bulk Beef]

Hamas, Hezbollah, Al-Aqsa, they use suicide bombers - this attack seems more like something Al Qaeda or Feydayeen would do.

Generally, they use suicide bombers in Israel because it's kind of hard to set up a roadside bomb in downtown Tel Aviv without somebody noticing. They have used improvised mines against Israeli vehicles and troops in the territories before.

 

[tnitsuj]

Originally posted by: kage69

Now, this statement worries me a bit, as it looks like someone had planed this attack against the diplomats themselfs, not just the convoy or some random target. Could very well be al qaeda or some other group trying to target important U.S officials or undercover people. But that's just speculation and I shouldn't be going into that untill we know who did this

Copy that.
Something seems wrong about this one. Hamas, Hezbollah, Al-Aqsa, they use suicide bombers - this attack seems more like something Al Qaeda or Feydayeen would do. I'm not saying terrorists can't change tactics, but it is something to note. The fact that it happened in Gaza does seem to narrow it down to 2 parties though. And yes, I mean I hold Israel under a suspicious eye - they've done worse to us in the past. Prolly safe to rule out Basque Seperatists though...

Actually Hezbollah invented and perferfected the IED/roadside bomb. Hamas and Islamic Jihad have used them extensively against Israeli military vehicles in the territories. Not an unheard of tactic.

However, American diplomatic convoys are very common and easily identifiable (white/or black suburbans, diplomatic plates, palestinian police escort). No one would accidently blow one up unless they were a complete idiot.

 

[kage69]

I seriously doubt Hezbollah 'invented' the roadside bomb, but I'll take your word on them 'perferfecting' them. I meant that this type of attack is not consistant with the methods of the more recent attacks - I know it's not unheard of.
Yep, a lot of idiots out there though, that's for sure.

 

[LilBlinbBlahIce]

Originally posted by: Corn

How about I let the article linked in the first post do my talking for me:

But our correspondent says there have been reports of jubilation among Palestinians in a nearby refugee camp - as they get increasingly angry at what they perceive as Washington's one-sided approach to the Mid-East crisis.

US investigators were reportedly forced to leave the scene after Palestinian youths threw stones at them.

As what they PERCEIVE as Washington's one-sided??? HA! We define the term "one sided". What do you expect them to do Corn? The helicopters and planes that blow their cities to bits as well as the tanks that roll through their town are all MADE IN AMERICA and given to Israel for free. I hope I never have to find out what a man has to go through in his life to be jubilant at the death of another.

 

[0roo0roo]

Originally posted by: kage69
I seriously doubt Hezbollah 'invented' the roadside bomb, but I'll take your word on them 'perferfecting' them. I meant that this type of attack is not consistant with the methods of the more recent attacks - I know it's not unheard of.
Yep, a lot of idiots out there though, that's for sure.

no, its quite a common tactic against troops.

 

[rahvin]

I'll say it again, this was a big bomb, it tore an armored van in half. You don't plant and detonate one of these bombs accidentally. The devices are more than likely hand triggered and a bomb of this size planted in a road would not be detonated without the approval of the leadership of one of the major terrorist groups (Al asqa martyrs brigade, Hamas or Islamic Jihad), all of which have representatives in Arafats leadership and government.

As has already been pointed out American diplomatic convoys are visbly marked to identify them as such. I believe the palestinians have taken the next step and declared war against the US. I do not expect Arafat to react to the attack and arrest those responsible and I expect there will be further attacks against American targets by Palestinians.

Looks like we need to take some Palestinians to Gitmo.

 

[Nitemare]

Originally posted by: LilBlinbBlahIce

Originally posted by: Corn

How about I let the article linked in the first post do my talking for me:

But our correspondent says there have been reports of jubilation among Palestinians in a nearby refugee camp - as they get increasingly angry at what they perceive as Washington's one-sided approach to the Mid-East crisis.

US investigators were reportedly forced to leave the scene after Palestinian youths threw stones at them.

As what they PERCEIVE as Washington's one-sided??? HA! We define the term "one sided". What do you expect them to do Corn? The helicopters and planes that blow their cities to bits as well as the tanks that roll through their town are all MADE IN AMERICA and given to Israel for free. I hope I never have to find out what a man has to go through in his life to be jubilant at the death of another.

I do not see them rushing to a treaty table now do we. Until they actually have a government which can control their terrorist behavior there will be no real bargaining

 

[hagbard]

Originally posted by: Nitemare
If this happens again they probably won't have to worry about Israel driving them into the sea, the US will do it for them...

They already are...hence the reason to attack Americans. The US has never been an honest broker in the mideast, it has always clearly been with the Israelis and against Palestinians. I'm still looking forward to billions of terrorists coming after you'all. You sure know how to make "friends".