US consumer confidence drop hits stocks

[Carmen813]

To go about from parroting that the recession was caused by Wall St. due to them making stupid loans and now complain that they're not lending enough? (not referring to you specifically but it's something Obama's Admin and some other people have been harping on recently)
Nothing short of idiocy.

They have a clear reason for doing that.
Just because you don't understand doesn't mean they don't.

I'm no talking about loaning money to people who can't afford the loan. I'm just reading what economists have said, most of who have agreed the worst of the danger has passed. My guess is that they are holding onto the assets due to how things are going in Europe, though I'm sure the crazies here will blame it all on the evil Obama administration.

 

[Darwin333]

Exactly, when the bulk of the market isn't sharing in the growth of companies, but has massive sums there for 'game-playing' that extracts wealth from the country.

I haven't seen one right-winger yet respond to the fact that in 1979, the financial sector was under 10% of the US economy, and recently it went over 40%.

Why? They don't understand why it's important and their eyes gloss over and they parrot the next Obama attack. We have democracy corrupted by the right-wing propaganda.

It's like the people causing the harm have really been able to misplace the blame and not be noticed for their role. The citizens who rise up to the wrongdoing face the right's dupes.

Reagan era: "Hey everyone, cut taxes on the rich and you will get rich too!" Sorry.

Clinton era: "Hey everyone you can get rich on the stock market too!" Sorry.

Bush era: "Hey everyone you can't go wrong putting all your money in real estate!" Sorry.

Obama to campaign team: You idiots, you were supposed to make me viable for 2012, not win and put me with a shovel in the billion cow barn of Bush to clean up crap!

What's the problem again? Oh ya, liberals who fought for the people the whole time.

Liberals who said "green energy" in the 70's, who said "oppose the Reagan tax cuts and skyrocketing deficit" in the 80's, who said "don't repeal FDR financial laws" in the 90's.

Al Gore saying 'put a lock box on the social security trust fund and don't let government borrow from it' in 2000, John Kerry saying we had some of the biggest crooks in history and needed to return government to the people from the hundreds of lobbyists the Republicans let run it in 2004.

Liberals in the House who would pass single-payer healthcare to reduce the trillions in waste America overpays for a system that bilks the public, who would pass serious finance reform.

Instead, the nation paying attention to people who show up to meetings of a 'movement' paid for by corrupt interests hiding from them with signs of Obama as Hitler and the Joker.

Save234

You do of course know that the Democrats, and more specifically Obama's justice Department, can simply enforce current laws on the banksters and stop a TON of the bullshit going on right now, right? We aren't talking about an act of Congress we are talking about simply getting existing Federal Government agencies to enforce existing laws on the books.

Lets see, what have the Dem controlled Federal Government done about:

Front running
Insider trading
Bribery (ironic that the politicians go to jail but not the banksters doing the actual bribing, last I checked at least 2 parties commit a crime when a politician is bribed)
Market Manipulation
FDIC taking 30%+ losses on assets when taking over failing banks (thats called accounting fraud)
HFT that has been proven to be used to "skim off the top" and manipulate stocks (pretty sure thats called fraud too)
Some banks are going so far as to foreclose on homes that they have no, and have never had any, financial interest in. They did not at the time of "foreclosure" nor did they EVER own the mortgage. Isn't that fraud too?

I'll leave ya with a short list but the full list is much much longer. What have they done about this already illegal activity? Nothing, that is what. In fact, they have done the opposite and HELPED them take more of our money with backdoor bailouts some of which will wind up hurting the people they pretended to help (like the $8K housing credit, most expensive "free money" most of them will ever get). They backstopped or purchased at FACE VALUE tons of bullshit paper from the banks that we will almost definitely get royally shafted on. How about all the fraud that took place during the bubble that caused a lot of this? How many indictments out of the democrat controlled government? How about the reinstatement of Glass-Steagall, easily the most important piece of legislation they can pass to help prevent a crisis like this from happening again?

Yet you really want everyone to believe that the left will pass any sort of meaningful financial reform? Give me a break, the last time they did something like that consumers got royally fucked because the banksters helped the Dems write the bill.

Just to be clear, the Republicans have done almost all of the above as well so my point is not that one is better than the other. My point is quite simple, they are both owned by the same people.

 

[Darwin333]

Makes our exported goods cheaper and foreign import goods more expensive...

:hmm:

Completely nukes the housing market, skyrockets the Fed Governments budget and severely limits (if not damn near removes) the Fed Governments ability to borrow money, especially the insane amount we have been borrowing lately...

:hmm:

 

[Darwin333]

In certain places prices are extremely low. My nephew just bought a condo in miami beach, two bedrooms overlooking the beach in a building that is about 20 years old. It has 40 percent occupancy and used to go for 800-1M. He got it for 220ish.

If Miami keeps dropping I told the wife were getting a condo on the beach!!!!!

I have been a bit reticent to get back into real estate. I flipped houses in LA and San Diego for a better part of a decade. Wife and I did very well and moved to NYC in the late 90s. We had at our peak 5 properties in the upper west side and got out in 2006. Now I could have held on for a little more but we are SOOOOOOO happy we did when we did.......

When my financial guy started to tell us to get out of emerging market funds and get a bit more secure we went very conservative....

Property now is a very scary proposition. In some places the bubble has not truly bottomed out and may drop even more. Do I think were at the bottom now? No. Do I think were going to go another 30-40 percent. God I hope not since it would be the real depression we all feared....

The ugly truth is that housing MUST continue to drop. It simply rose in value way to fast when compared with wages. When the median family income can come close to actually being able to afford the median house then they should stabilize. Matter of fact, the huge jump in housing costs during the last two decades is one of the primary reasons the middle class is hurting so badly. Of course the government is doing everything in its power to prevent this, not because they give half a shit about your equity, but because it makes the banksters more money/not lose as much money.

The people who got the $8K home buyers credit are going to soon find out that it was the most expensive "free" they have ever gotten. The banks did real good though, even got the taxpayer to guarantee virtually all of the loans.

 

[nergee]

"The banks did real good though, even got the taxpayer to guarantee virtually all of the loans."

With the taxpayer taking all the hits, I guess this would guarantee the Wall Street Overlords their exponential bonuses will continue indefinitely......

 

[lothar]

I'm no talking about loaning money to people who can't afford the loan. I'm just reading what economists have said, most of who have agreed the worst of the danger has passed. My guess is that they are holding onto the assets due to how things are going in Europe, though I'm sure the crazies here will blame it all on the evil Obama administration.

Would you rather they hold onto their assets or go binge drinking and run back to tax payers seeking another bailout?

Can I afford a Lexus, Mercedes, or BMW? Sure.
Just because I can doesn't mean I should.

People complain that US savings rate is poor, but those same people are now complaining that corporations(and people as well) are sitting onto assets and not lending money out(or spending in the case of consumers).

With the Financial regulation bill and the world global banks agreement that will likely be signed by finance regulators of different countries, banks are doing the right thing to hold onto their money because they have no idea what will happen or how the new rules might affect their profitability.

 

[Zebo]

What the fuck are you talking about?

My point before was that one way or another, everybody deals with WS. Where the fuck did you go?

What's funny was that before there was a WS, everybody bitched about bankers. It's always been like that, it will always be like that. Capital allocation has to be caused by somebody. Individual investors cannot do everything bankers do, otherwise they would need the competency built into their every-day lives. Conversely, business owners cannot have capital departments whose sole reason for existence is to fund the company by looking for individual investors. This applies to pretty much everything in our lives. It is inefficient to have jack-of-all-trades in our companies, thus we outsource key competencies to those who do them all day every day.

I don't disagree with anything you say. My point is rules for them and who gets loans needs to be looked at, again. SBA is tight as bark on a tree right now hurting economy. Rules such as GS and many others need to be revised let alone prosecute laws already on the books.

 

[Ozoned]

The summer of recovery keeps rolling on. Low consumer confidence = low spending = no jobs = lower consumer confidence = less and less jobs. It's like a death spiral. I don't know how to get out of it until this administration and congress change their tune or get booted out. The liberal experiment has failed the world over and it's failing here as well, just a lot quicker.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5h3kgMAkbLwyfxBdjzw8Pc4KZ7DhQD9I9NMG00

I wonder who is buying all this stuff the Railroads are moving? http://railfax.transmatch.com/

Take a close look at intermodal. It is quite telling. You got to remember that the New liberal experiment is NOT tied to the economy, but rather exploits it.