US college enrollment drops for 2nd straight year...

[Exterous]

I see no evidence that the decline in enrollment is due entirely or, even primarily, to the rise in costs. Perhaps students are FINALLY learning that not everyone "has " to go to college. Of course the people actually doing the learning may be their parents.

The good news is that for the last several years (3rd now?) For-Profit enrollment is down while traditional enrollment is up slightly.

I would expect this would have a slight impact on rising costs as well as For-Profits tend to charge more (4x as a community college and 19% more than non-profit public university).

Potentially also softening the increase in costs I know Michigan and a few other states have increased college funding for the first time in quite a while as well

 

[z1ggy]

I think a big factor that contributed a lot to the crappy student debt situation is social norms and cultural influence. If both your parents are educated with college degrees, and have any sense of ego/pride in you, I bet there's a very high chance the kid goes to college, regardless if he/she is qualified or if he/she can afford it.

There's probably much less pressure or desire for people to get a degree when one or either parent does not have one themselves, especially if they make a decent living.

I have a couple friends who do not have BS degrees who make $60k+. One is only in his late 20's, too. It's almost like, society here as a whole views those who do not have degrees as less intelligent, less driven and demand less respect than those who do have degrees.

 

[realibrad]

Trade education and Schools are both running up against the same issues to me. Schools are far too expensive for what they actually do. You are forced to take many classes that have nothing to do with your profession. You are stuck doing 4 years when many could get by with half that amount of time. It then creates a gap between the income a skilled job will bring, and the cost of getting that skill being too high to ever get returns. Many middle class jobs are gone because there is not a cost effective way to gain those skills.

As for trades, we have done much of the same thing. All the certifications and unions have created expensive barriers that keep the supply low, and raise the price of the skill. There is also the issue that tradesmen are looked down upon by most college grads.

What you end up having is an inflated price for skills/education that creates a gap in the middle for jobs. People are starting to realize they may not get a return on their fancy 4 year degree in art appreciation or german history.

 

[Engineer]

The manufacturing would be a tiny part of it though, and those skills could be applied elsewhere.

I would tend to think that there were millions of skilled trade people who were offshored / retired and new ones not put back in their place as manufacturing declined over the decades. With no demand to be replaced, the trade schools / programs dried up.

 

[Engineer]

Trade education and Schools are both running up against the same issues to me. Schools are far too expensive for what they actually do. You are forced to take many classes that have nothing to do with your profession.

Amen brother...amen!!!

 

[Londo_Jowo]

I would tend to think that there were millions of skilled trade people who were offshored / retired and new ones not put back in their place as manufacturing declined over the decades. With no demand to be replaced, the trade schools / programs dried up.

Right now all industries are having issues filling skilled trades positions, I've seen it first hand with the company for whom I work and have seen the same thing with our clients and competitors. The sad thing is most of today's youth do not want to perform the tasks or work in hot/dirty environments where the work is required. They all want that cushy high paying office job they were told would be waiting for them when they finished college. Many engineers have no field/hands on experience due to the fact they only want to work in a cushy office environment. In many cases work equivalent experience is now being considered the same as a college degree if not a step ahead when filling senior tech support engineer positions. Clients and field support personnel are quick to point out when they feel the tech support is lacking, specially when the client is paying for the tech support.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

The issue, IMO, is that we need to re-evaluate the purpose of high school and likely need to restructure it along the lines of the German education system. It makes no sense to me to make kids who are obviously not capable of going to college continue in the current system and learn things that won't prepare them for life after school. IMO, we should restructure so that the first 8-10 years of school give students their baseline education and then the remaining 2-4 years would be for college prep (for college-bound students; these could also be the general education reqs of college for that matter) or useful vocational training for those who aren't going on any further.

EDIT: And yeah, I do have to question the liberal arts/humanities requirements associated with technical degrees. When I went to school, I had to take 15-18 hours of those electives. Is that REALLY necessary? The only thing they did for me was make me spend more money and were good to pad my GPA with. As college gets more expensive I think you will likely have to trim down some of those requirements.

 

[Newell Steamer]

This is perfect - more soldiers & weapon makers for when we invade Iraq III and take out Iran.

 

[Engineer]

The issue, IMO, is that we need to re-evaluate the purpose of high school and likely need to restructure it along the lines of the German education system. It makes no sense to me to make kids who are obviously not capable of going to college continue in the current system and learn things that won't prepare them for life after school. IMO, we should restructure so that the first 8-10 years of school give students their baseline education and then the remaining 2-4 years would be for college prep (for college-bound students) or useful vocational training for those who aren't going on any further.

EDIT: And yeah, I do have to question the liberal arts/humanities requirements associated with technical degrees. When I went to school, I had to take 15-18 hours of those electives. Is that REALLY necessary? The only thing they did for me was make me spend more money and were good to pad my GPA with. As college gets more expensive I think you will likely have to trim down some of those requirements.

100% agree!

 

[realibrad]

Right now, I dont see how we could go to a german standard. Imagine the outrage when your child is not qualified for college.

We live in a very wealthy country, where out desires are not limited about our abilities to do, but only to pay.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

Right now, I dont see how we could go to a german standard. Imagine the outrage when your child is not qualified for college.

We live in a very wealthy country, where out desires are not limited about our abilities to do, but only to pay.

Yes, that's exactly the reason (the bolded) why it will never happen here. The stigma towards vocational training here would cause outrage.

 

[realibrad]

Yes, that's exactly the reason (the bolded) why it will never happen here. The stigma towards vocational training here would cause outrage.

Trickle that down. At what point is the investment not worth the return. Does it ever get close to minimum wage....