US citizen killed in US air-strike

[Wreckem]

And last I checked John Walker Lindh was and still is a US citizen. He was not excutted. Nor was he sent to Gitmo. He was given the full due process of law in US Federal Court and sentenced to 20 years.

 

[Moonbeam]

So the same thing applies to domestic terrorists? You would be okay, with the US executing anyone associated with domestic terrorists without due process of law?

Doh!

 

[Wreckem]

Killing in self-defense is a basic human right, which trumps the Constitution.

Grasping at straws aren't we.

 

[DucatiMonster696]

He was a terrorist just like his father. Being a US citizen doesn't give you a free pass to attack us from other countries.

Guilt through association is not a legal or logically valid point. Unless you have evidence to back up that claim that this person has conducted known terrorist attacks on the US or US citizens. Either way you'd need a trial and due process to determine guilt against this US citizen.

Edit: Even Timothy McVeigh and Ted Kaczynski had their rights protected and a trial to determine their guilt before they were sentenced for their acts of terrorism.

 

[DucatiMonster696]

Killing in self-defense is a basic human right, which trumps the Constitution.

Right unless we bring up the 2nd amendment then it goes out the window for Obama supporters and his policy of killing US citizens without a trial.

 

[guyver01]

Grasping at straws aren't we.

same straw you're grasping at when you say the shit stain deserves full protection of the laws of the country he's trying to destroy.

 

[Wreckem]

same straw you're grasping at when you say the shit stain deserves full protection of the laws of the country he's trying to destroy.

Everything you are saying goes against our system of laws. Everything I have said is rooted in US law. Nothing you have said is. Almost everything you have said has been "common sense" pulled out of your ass.

 

[Wreckem]

Doh!

What?

 

[guyver01]

Everything you are saying goes against our system of laws.

do you honestly believe that shit stain cared one bit about our laws?

 

[Rebel44]

I am OK with killing terrorists if their capture isnt possible. So if this asshole was found in Boston, arrest is IMO best option. If found in shithole where capture isnt an option, killing him is IMO best option.

 

[DucatiMonster696]

do you honestly believe that shit stain cared one bit about our laws?

That is a stupid point. The real issue is whether or not "WE" as nation care for our own laws by following them as they were designed to be followed. If we don't
(according to you it seems we should pick and choose which laws to follow as if we were at a buffet table) then we can promptly begin the process of dismantling the US Constitution and everything it stands for in regards to being "a nation of laws".

 

[Texashiker]

and you are arguing that the terrorist asshole deserves protection under the us constitution.

Well, as a matter of fact, US citizens are entitled to protection under the United States Constitution.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Article_Three_of_the_United_States_Constitution

Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort. No Person shall be convicted of Treason unless on the Testimony of two Witnesses to the same overt Act, or on Confession in open Court.

Even those accused of treason are entitled to a trial.

 

[guyver01]

Well, as a matter of fact, US citizens are entitled to protection under the United States Constitution.

and i dont see that shit stain as a us citizen.

the fact that a few people in this forum consider that smudge on a mountain an american citizen... explains alot about why p&n in general is a shit hole.

 

[Gamingphreek]

He cannot because he's wrong.

Joining a foreign army can cause you to lose US citizenship, but it is not automatic.

Current US law says that foreign military service will result in loss of US citizenship if the person served as an officer (commissioned or non-commissioned) or the foreign military force is engaged in hostilities against the US; the service was voluntary; and (most importantly) the person intended to give up his US citizenship.

And no terrorist organizations do not equal a foreign military under the law.

I bolded the part you seemed to gloss over.

These citizens voluntarily chose to serve in the terrorist organization known as Al Qaeda (This is a foreign military).

Jeez what if Bin Laden had been an American citizen? Would the SEAL team have to fly over there, read him his miranda rights, and take him back to New York for trial?

 

[Moonbeam]

What?

So the same thing applies to domestic terrorists? You would be okay, with the US executing anyone associated with domestic terrorists without due process of law?

Not what I said. Not even remotely what I said. So far from what I said as to defy belief.

 

[Wreckem]

So the same thing applies to domestic terrorists? You would be okay, with the US executing anyone associated with domestic terrorists without due process of law?

Not what I said. Not even remotely what I said. So far from what I said as to defy belief.

That wasn't addressed to you. Only the first one was.

 

[Gamingphreek]

And last I checked John Walker Lindh was and still is a US citizen. He was not excutted. Nor was he sent to Gitmo. He was given the full due process of law in US Federal Court and sentenced to 20 years.

He should have been tried at Gitmo in a military tribunal. He was an enemy combatant fighting against the US Citizen. This curious decision lies solely in the hands of the Obama Administration. Military tribunals are the way we convict those who are enemy combatants. While they should be afforded fair treatment/trial in accordance with the Geneva Convention, that doesn't mean applying the full force of the constitution to them and flying them to New York for a criminal trial. In short, Military Tribunal does not preclude a fair trial.

At any rate, the reason he was captured was because we didn't have to illegally invade another country to pull him out of there - we were already in Afghanistan.

As for McVeigh - he was on US soil when he was captured. Of course they are going to apprehend them if possible. Once again he should probably have been sent to a military tribunal due to an act of terrorism.

I'm not sure how you are glossing over the most important points here. It is pretty clear that these people have waged war against the United States.

(I will mention that treason and act of aggression are very different. Robert Hanson was convicted of treason and was protected by the constitution - but he did not commit an act of aggression against the US)

 

[DucatiMonster696]

and i dont see that shit stain as a us citizen.


the fact that a few people in this forum consider that smudge on a mountain an american citizen... explains alot about why p&n in general is a shit hole.

The law doesn't care what you "see". However the law does care for what is on the side factual and proven legality and what is a factual and proven violation of the law itself. Your personal emotional views do not matter in the end because the US code of laws does not care for such capricious trivialities on a matter which involves the due process and application of the law itself as it was envisioned.

 

[Wreckem]

I bolded the part you seemed to gloss over.

These citizens voluntarily chose to serve in the terrorist organization known as Al Qaeda (This is a foreign military).

Jeez what if Bin Laden had been an American citizen? Would the SEAL team have to fly over there, read him his miranda rights, and take him back to New York for trial?

Al Qaeda isn't classified a foreign military.

Cite, memo from secret death panel that US Al qaeda was still a US citizen, but we could kill him anyways.

 

[Wreckem]

He should have been tried at Gitmo in a military tribunal. He was an enemy combatant fighting against the US Citizen. This curious decision lies solely in the hands of the Obama Administration. Military tribunals are the way we convict those who are enemy combatants. While they should be afforded fair treatment/trial in accordance with the Geneva Convention, that doesn't mean applying the full force of the constitution to them and flying them to New York for a criminal trial. In short, Military Tribunal does not preclude a fair trial.

At any rate, the reason he was captured was because we didn't have to illegally invade another country to pull him out of there - we were already in Afghanistan.

As for McVeigh - he was on US soil when he was captured. Of course they are going to apprehend them if possible. Once again he should probably have been sent to a military tribunal due to an act of terrorism.

I'm not sure how you are glossing over the most important points here. It is pretty clear that these people have waged war against the United States.

(I will mention that treason and act of aggression are very different. Robert Hanson was convicted of treason and was protected by the constitution - but he did not commit an act of aggression against the US)

Actually Lindh was tried by the Bush admin. Surprisingly they gave American citizens due process of law. Where as Obama wants to give foreign enemy combatants due process of law but not US citizens.

Lindh actually pled out because under the US constitution Lindh was afford protection because he was still a US citizen and the US obtained his confession by torturing him violating multiple amendments. The Feds scuttled the case and let him plea to two charges and 20 years because the federal prosecutors knew much of the evidence obtained was going to get tossed.

 

[guyver01]

The law doesn't care what you "see". However the law does care for what is on the side factual and proven legality and what is a factual and proven violation of the law itself. Your personal emotional views do not matter in the end because the US code of laws do not care for such capricious trivialities on a matter which involves the due process and application of the law itself as it was envisioned.

lol.. so.. next time we find one of these pukes... we'll send you and Wrecker and TexasTraitor over there... and you three can ask them nicely to surrender and come quietly.

be sure to leave you addresses somewhere, so when you heads get mailed back home, we know where to send them for burial.

 

[DucatiMonster696]

He should have been tried at Gitmo in a military tribunal. He was an enemy combatant fighting against the US Citizen. This curious decision lies solely in the hands of the Obama Administration. Military tribunals are the way we convict those who are enemy combatants. While they should be afforded fair treatment/trial in accordance with the Geneva Convention, that doesn't mean applying the full force of the constitution to them and flying them to New York for a criminal trial. In short, Military Tribunal does not preclude a fair trial.

At any rate, the reason he was captured was because we didn't have to illegally invade another country to pull him out of there - we were already in Afghanistan.

As for McVeigh - he was on US soil when he was captured. Of course they are going to apprehend them if possible. Once again he should probably have been sent to a military tribunal due to an act of terrorism.

I'm not sure how you are glossing over the most important points here. It is pretty clear that these people have waged war against the United States.

(I will mention that treason and act of aggression are very different. Robert Hanson was convicted of treason and was protected by the constitution - but he did not commit an act of aggression against the US)

We have the means and capability to send in people to capture and arrest criminals or US citizens who have become terrorists. We could of done so in Yemen and have done these types of actions many times over in just as equally dangerous and hostile territories. A drone strike a lazy man's way at avoiding the hassle of a capture and arrest, followed by a trial and conviction, especially in regards to the son.

 

[Anarchist420]

I bolded the part you seemed to gloss over.

These citizens voluntarily chose to serve in the terrorist organization known as Al Qaeda (This is a foreign military).

Jeez what if Bin Laden had been an American citizen? Would the SEAL team have to fly over there, read him his miranda rights, and take him back to New York for trial?

First of all, the U.S. created Al-qaida and 2nd of all, Bin Laden either didn't do it, or if he did it was because of our foreign policy.

The problem with this shit is that they could execute any one of us without a trial by jury. You or me or both of us could be next. The President being judge, jury, and executioner of a U.S. citizen blatantly violates the Constitution (yes I said it--even I don't see how it could be Constitutional). The necessary and proper clause is under congressional powers, so that can't be used, especially since Congress didn't ask the executive to kill Awlaki. The President is commander in chief, but then Article III establishes the judiciary and if that's not enough, then Bill of Rights certainly limits the Executive from being the judge and jury of a U.S. citizen.

Whoever thinks America can just terrorize the world just because we can has problems. There is no reason to have the foreign policy we've had over the past 20 years. If they hated us for our culture rather than for our foreign policy, then Scandinacia and Japan would be in ruins. That said, it would be nice if more people would realize that our damn government is a lot more dangerous than the "Islamic extremists" could be in their wildest dreams.

 

[DucatiMonster696]

lol.. so.. next time we find one of these pukes... we'll send you and Wrecker and TexasTraitor over there... and you three can ask them nicely to surrender and come quietly.

We have people already who do this sort of work so your point is moot.

be sure to leave you addresses somewhere, so when you heads get mailed back home, we know where to send them for burial.

More of the last visages of someone without the ability to put fourth a solid counter argument.

 

[guyver01]

We have people already who do this sort of work so your point is moot.

so you want someone else to put their life on the line to try and capture this shit stain to put him on trial... because you dont want to?

last cries of a coward... someone else can do it.. because i dont want to.