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US cars top foreign brands on quality survey

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KIAman said:
You didn't read the article did you? It states that on average, all American brands have 108 problems per 100, while all imports have 109 per 100. Whereas before it was the other way around 10 years ago.
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1 point on a number >100 doesn't seem like anything to write home about, I'd assume that's within margin of error, etc. Excluding landrover would probably change the winner. lol.

You can't really say American cars are more reliable than imports (incl.#1 and 3 Porsche and MB), because rover and a few others have problems.
 
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I think the point is that the US Auto Manufacturers have made significant improvements over the past few years. In most cases they are on par with the Foreign Manufacturers. And in some cases they have actually pulled ahead of them.

I work in the Research and Development area (Engine Laboratory Department) of Ford Motor Company. And I can tell you that we do things a lot differently these days than we did 20 years ago. We are also keenly aware that we still have many, many areas where we can improve our product. And that’s exactly what we are focused on doing. So stay tuned.

C3p0
🙂
 
Bignate603 said:
Holy crap, Toyota's rating has dropped into the crapper.
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I wonder how much of it is real and how much of it is "my wife says the car randomly accelerated and that's why she backed in the house!"
Whenever something big hits the news, people love to pretend they have that problem.


don't see any Nissan or Mazda on that list... lol!!
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Not sure about Mazda, but Nissan has traditionally had sketchy quality. In one of those edmonds threads I started, I think I posted that quite a few people complain about the Sentra coming with alignment problems so the gas mileage is horrible and it burns through tires like there's no tomorrow. The 3.5L Altima is rock solid but the 2.4L is a pile of fuck. Versa is a bad car all around.
 
How are US cars topping the foreign brands when the top 4 are foreign and only 2 (arguably 3) domestic makes are in the top 10?

EDIT: I suppose it is possible as long as the least-reliable make is not a domestic make.
 
Howard said:
EDIT: I suppose it is possible as long as the least-reliable make is not a domestic make.
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Chrysler :hmm:

Pick any random Chrysler vehicle on Edmunds and the reviews are always hilarious.
http://www.edmunds.com/dodge/caliber/2007/consumerreview.html
Vehicle
2007 Dodge Caliber SXT 4dr Wagon (1.8L 4cyl 5M)

Review
Bought my caliber Aug 2006. Was so excited I actually got one! Now I wish I had just walked away. Already replaced both outer tie rods, both struts, lower control arms blew and now the engine is dead. I am trading this in, taking a loss and getting a Honda. This was the worst mistake ever.

Favorite Features
NONE

Suggested Improvements
EVERYTHING
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:awe:
 
PhoKingGuy said:
The caliber was made to be a rental car, if you bought one as personal transportation you are a fucking idiot plain and simple.
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We could always try their other cars.

http://www.edmunds.com/dodge/grandcaravan/2009/consumerreview.html
Vehicle
2009 Dodge Grand Caravan SXT 4dr Minivan (3.8L 6cyl 6A)

Review
The touchscreen has already stopped working, the day after we bought it. The culprit is faulty software, but of course Dodge does nothing until they have to, there goes another day wasted at the dealership. A new screen has to be ordered. A plastic piece snapped off of one of the stow n go seats. The storage bin on the back of the drivers seat keeps popping out. The interior looks very cheap given what we paid for this van. The material used on the seats, as well as the cushions, probably won't wear well. No wonder the company is in trouble. So why didn't we buy a Honda? Husband thinks they're overpriced.

Favorite Features
back up camera

Suggested Improvements
Use quality materials for interior, fix engine/transmission reliability issues.
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The bolded part blows my mind. Looks cheap given what we paid? I looked into this, and my Toyota Corolla is more expensive than a Dodge Caravan. If you're driving a van that's cheaper than a Corolla then why on earth would you expect it to look nice in any way?

edit:
The base model of Caravan is cheaper than my Corolla LE. The reason that is very strange is because one is a van and is twice as big. It's also not a shocker that this particular van lacks quality when the base model is literally $10,000 cheaper than a Honda or Toyota van. I don't think Ford or GM make minivans anymore, so no comment on their price.
 
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One thing to note is that regardless of who is ranked higher or lower than who, when it comes to your average brand, the variance is so much smaller now that I wonder just how much it really matters.
 
CraigRT said:
The new RAM is a kick-ass truck and definitely the best thing that company makes. Other than the SRT Challenger of course.

The RAM gets better every year.. If I were gonna buy a full size pickup, it would be a RAM for sure.
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You must have never looked at a Chevy or Ford truck, then, much less worked on one and seen how well they're put together.

Dodge has BY FAR the worst quality of the domestics. They aren't even on the same playing field with Ford and Chevy. From powertrain to fit and finish. Particularly the fit and finish part.
Disassemble some random interior parts on all three and you'll see the difference.
 
Pacfanweb said:
You must have never looked at a Chevy or Ford truck, then, much less worked on one and seen how well they're put together.

Dodge has BY FAR the worst quality of the domestics. They aren't even on the same playing field with Ford and Chevy. From powertrain to fit and finish. Particularly the fit and finish part.
Disassemble some random interior parts on all three and you'll see the difference.
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I have not touched a Dodge truck in some years, but I have driven a 2007 HEMI and it was a great truck. The new looks to be even better. Fit and finish is surprisingly good considering the rest of the company's offerings. I'd have no problems taking the new RAM and relying on it as a work truck, DD, etc.

Random review: http://www.flagworld.com/roadtests/?p=186

Top quality fit and finish noted.. Not your typical Chrysler product. Thing looks so awesome!
 
Fingolfin269 said:
One thing to note is that regardless of who is ranked higher or lower than who, when it comes to your average brand, the variance is so much smaller now that I wonder just how much it really matters.
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Exactly.

I remember when the average number of defects was over 200. Both the foreign and domestic manufacturers have brought the numbers down steadily. Buying the newest vehicle regardless of the source really has its rewards given this decline.
 
railer said:
Yeah, it sure does pale in comparison .... http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews...rd_f-150_and_chevy_silverado-comparison_tests
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Did you even look at how they scored it?

Ram got the lowwest marks for towing, fuel economy, and steering feel. Yet it got a lot of points for Styling, Features, and more points in the ever so useful "gotta have it" ranking. 🙄

So it fails when compared to a Chevy/GMC or Ford in areas where people use a truck and it matters. But dam RAM sure does rule the ever so easy to teat "gotta have it" ability.

http://www.caranddriver.com/var/ezf...lication/f04fd9c420d75c076d51234015a17482.pdf


Chevy/GMC and Ford are much better trucks if you need a truck. If you want what some guy at a magazine thinks, then get the Ram or a Honda ridgeline. :awe:
 
CraigRT said:
I have not touched a Dodge truck in some years, but I have driven a 2007 HEMI and it was a great truck. The new looks to be even better. Fit and finish is surprisingly good considering the rest of the company's offerings. I'd have no problems taking the new RAM and relying on it as a work truck, DD, etc.

Random review: http://www.flagworld.com/roadtests/?p=186

Top quality fit and finish noted.. Not your typical Chrysler product. Thing looks so awesome!
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LOLOLOL

Top quality fit and finish compared to what? Some Chinese truck?

A Hemi is just an engine, which isn't even a real Hemi. Not a truck model. They rest of the truck is the same as any other Dodge truck.

What I'm telling you is, every Dodge model made has lots of problems, and their trucks are no different. Dodge trucks have NEVER, EVER even been close to Chevy and Ford's trucks in pretty much any category, other than maybe HP when they used the V-10, and the rest of the truck was still a piece.

Chrysler must supply their design engineers with a steady diet of drugs to come up with some of the crap they have made. The Jeep Wrangler's "Freedom" hard top is a glaring example.....total design flaw which caused water leaks, and they didn't even redesign it until this year. Let it stay like it was for 3 years.

Not trying to get on a Chrysler rant, but every time one of my Dodge dealerships calls me in, I just laugh when I remove any of their interior panels, just seeing how they're attached and how "well" they fit.
 
Marlin1975 said:
Did you even look at how they scored it?

Ram got the lowwest marks for towing, fuel economy, and steering feel. Yet it got a lot of points for Styling, Features, and more points in the ever so useful "gotta have it" ranking. 🙄

So it fails when compared to a Chevy/GMC or Ford in areas where people use a truck and it matters. But dam RAM sure does rule the ever so easy to teat "gotta have it" ability.

http://www.caranddriver.com/var/ezf...lication/f04fd9c420d75c076d51234015a17482.pdf


Chevy/GMC and Ford are much better trucks if you need a truck. If you want what some guy at a magazine thinks, then get the Ram or a Honda ridgeline. :awe:
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Don't get your panties in such a wad....it's just a truck review. Half the people that I snowmobile with have Dodge Ram's and love 'em...and they do a lot of towing. I'm sure they'd gladly trade that 1 mpg deficit for by far the most torque/hp. I'll let them know that C+D rated the Ram poorly on "steering feel"....there will be some people jumping off of tall buildings after I drop that bombshell. 😀 😀 😀 Anyway, I'm not a brand loyal idiot, I drive an F150.....just pointing out that the notion that the Ram somehow "pales in comparison" to trucks that it soundly beats in comparison testing (excpet for steering feel, of course) is quite absurd.
 
Not sure if somebody mentinoed but these rankings are in great part useless and I realized this a day or two ago. You see porsche at the top. The ranking looks at a given car and how many complaints within a certain number of days. Now, who do you think drives more somebody in a new fusion or a new carrera? Without putting miles into this report (does it?) It's tits-up-fvcking useless because a brand like porsche gets far, far less miles on it in 3 months on average than a commuter car.

Among similar demographic vehicles like a fusion vs a camry, for example, there is merit here, but putting in some fringe vehicles it's impossible to compare meaningfully.
 
Skoorb said:
Not sure if somebody mentinoed but these rankings are in great part useless and I realized this a day or two ago. You see porsche at the top. The ranking looks at a given car and how many complaints within a certain number of days. Now, who do you think drives more somebody in a new fusion or a new carrera? Without putting miles into this report (does it?) It's tits-up-fvcking useless because a brand like porsche gets far, far less miles on it in 3 months on average than a commuter car.
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This is a really good point. The people who need to drive their kids all over town for random bullshit (soccer, school supplies, play date) probably drive regular cheap Toyotas and Fords. I don't know many parents driving a Lexus. They exist obviously, but cars like Lexus are what you buy after your kids have left home and you're already half retired. Once you completely retire, you can buy a Cadillac that you never ever drive.
 
Skoorb said:
Not sure if somebody mentinoed but these rankings are in great part useless and I realized this a day or two ago. You see porsche at the top. The ranking looks at a given car and how many complaints within a certain number of days. Now, who do you think drives more somebody in a new fusion or a new carrera? Without putting miles into this report (does it?) It's tits-up-fvcking useless because a brand like porsche gets far, far less miles on it in 3 months on average than a commuter car.

Among similar demographic vehicles like a fusion vs a camry, for example, there is merit here, but putting in some fringe vehicles it's impossible to compare meaningfully.
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Yeah that was my first reaction when I saw luxury brands on the top of the list. It's kinda like how perception is based on how many problem threads we see about Brand X mobo, when a lot of that is influenced by the size of the user base.
 
ShawnD1 said:
This is a really good point. The people who need to drive their kids all over town for random bullshit (soccer, school supplies, play date) probably drive regular cheap Toyotas and Fords. I don't know many parents driving a Lexus. They exist obviously, but cars like Lexus are what you buy after your kids have left home and you're already half retired. Once you completely retire, you can buy a Cadillac that you never ever drive.
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Hmmm I drive the shit out of my Cadillac. So does my BiL for his Caddy. In about 100k miles both cars have added up only thing I have changed was maintaince items and a couple headlights.

But Porsche may have got better also as they have SUVs now and are not an all sports car company. But they did get much better when the 911's went to water cooled design.
 
mav451 said:
Yeah that was my first reaction when I saw luxury brands on the top of the list. It's kinda like how perception is based on how many problem threads we see about Brand X mobo, when a lot of that is influenced by the size of the user base.
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That is somewhat true. The problem I and others have is what are these problems these cars have? Like a motherboard or anything else I look to see if the same problem keeps coming up over and over. Kinda like Honda and auto trans, GM and intake gaskets, Toyota for sludge/rust/etc...

If you see the same thing keep coming up, no matter the sample size, then that is probable a real issue. But to see many different things tells me it could be the users fault.

Remember Hummer got awful ratings when it came out. But it turned out the 2 biggest complaints were it got bad gas milage (its a 3/4ton truck body) and it rode ruff/like a truck (AGAIN its a 3/4ton truck body). Very few issues with the drivetrain or something that would cause you to be left on the side of the road.
 
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