US Border Agents risk jail time for doing their job

[babylon5]

A Mexican drug smuggler has fully contributed to the destruction of two brave US Border agents and their families and has sent a very loud message to the other Border Patrol agents if they do their job to patrol US border from criminals.

...Assistant U.S. Attorney Debra Kanof said border agents have "no business chasing someone in the first place" [at the border]

...Kanof also said "Agents are not allowed to pursue. In order to exceed the speed limit, you have to get supervisor approval, and they did not".

The smuggler was given full immunity to testify against the agents and complete medical care at William Beaumont Army Medical Center, in El Paso.

A tale of US border agents castrated by US government, where drug dealers have more right than Americans.
Article

 

[jpeyton]

Don't worry, the Great Wall is going up soon.

 

[Jaskalas]

"It is a violation of Border Patrol regulations to go after someone who is fleeing," she said. "The Border Patrol pursuit policy prohibits the pursuit of someone."

This is why I hate Bush when he lies to us telling us bull**** about how adding 6,000 national guard is going to change a single thing. Not counting that less than 1,500 have actually been sent down there, the policy IS of an open border, and he refuses to change it.

We will never secure the border so long as scum bags are in charge who decides that the policy is openness while publicly telling us otherwise. If they told us the truth of their ideals and policy there would be a public uproar over it.

 

[Todd33]

The story is far more than what you posted, you over simplified it a smidge. I do find the pursuing part strange, they cannot chase people?

 

[jrenz]

"The Border Patrol pursuit policy prohibits the pursuit of someone."

That's why they had to shoot him! Too bad they didn't finish the job.

 

[babylon5]

Originally posted by: Todd33
The story is far more than what you posted, you over simplified it a smidge. I do find the pursuing part strange, they cannot chase people?

You're right, the story is rather long as you noticed. I summarized the rather disturbing points here, and link to the full article for those interested.

The agents themselves seem to have not follow some rule to file reports afterward about the shooting. Still, the drug dealer go free while our agents go to jail. Something is very wrong about this picture.

 

[jrenz]

Almost as bad as the 8 Mariness being detained without charges because the enemy claims that they raped and murdered their family.

The government is pandering to political correctness at the expense of our heroes.

 

[Todd33]

Originally posted by: babylon5

Originally posted by: Todd33
The story is far more than what you posted, you over simplified it a smidge. I do find the pursuing part strange, they cannot chase people?

You're right, the story is rather long as you noticed. I summarized the rather disturbing points here, and link to the full article for those interested.

The agents themselves seem to have not follow some rule to file reports afterward about the shooting. Still, the drug dealer go free while our agents go to jail. Something is very wrong about this picture.

The laws must be then, they were tried in court by their peers. The linked story was a bit melodramatic, so I doubt it's unbiased reporting. There must be more to the story, or at least more details.

 

[Todd33]

Originally posted by: jrenz
Almost as bad as the 8 Mariness being detained without charges because the enemy claims that they raped and murdered their family.

The government is pandering to political correctness at the expense of our heroes.

Are you referring to the Steven Green case? Man, you are a sick fck, this guy killed a 14 year girl after raping her and killing her family and you call them the"enemy"? This guy is the enemy, he blemishes the US military in the eyes of the world. You are just like him, a disturbed individual.

http://msnbc.msn.com/id/13696479/

 

[DealMonkey]

Originally posted by: jpeyton
Don't worry, the Great Wall is going up soon.

Are the Huns coming?!? :shocked:

 

[tommywishbone]

Originally posted by: DealMonkey

Originally posted by: jpeyton
Don't worry, the Great Wall is going up soon.

Are the Huns coming?!? :shocked:

Damn Mongolians!

 

[jrenz]

Originally posted by: Todd33

Originally posted by: jrenz
Almost as bad as the 8 Mariness being detained without charges because the enemy claims that they raped and murdered their family.

The government is pandering to political correctness at the expense of our heroes.

Are you referring to the Steven Green case? Man, you are a sick fck, this guy killed a 14 year girl after raping her and killing her family and you call them the"enemy"? This guy is the enemy, he blemishes the US military in the eyes of the world. You are just like him, a disturbed individual.

http://msnbc.msn.com/id/13696479/

No, that's not what I was referring to, but thanks for looking like an idiot.

 

[1EZduzit]

I thought Bush promoted all the fvck ups??

 

[tnitsuj]

Originally posted by: jrenz

Originally posted by: Todd33

Originally posted by: jrenz
Almost as bad as the 8 Mariness being detained without charges because the enemy claims that they raped and murdered their family.

The government is pandering to political correctness at the expense of our heroes.

Are you referring to the Steven Green case? Man, you are a sick fck, this guy killed a 14 year girl after raping her and killing her family and you call them the"enemy"? This guy is the enemy, he blemishes the US military in the eyes of the world. You are just like him, a disturbed individual.

http://msnbc.msn.com/id/13696479/

No, that's not what I was referring to, but thanks for looking like an idiot.

I think you are mistaken in your facts. The investigation in regards to the Marines in Haditha does not involve accusations of rape. That case is soley based on a suspicion of murder or unlawfull killing.

The rape case was the Steven Green case involving Army troops.

 

[Aisengard]

Oops, jrenz is the idiot. How about linking to 'what you were referring to' instead of trolling.

 

[Moonbeam]

Well if we don't hold our police accountable to laws too they will just shoot anybody who looks like he might commit a crime, no?

 

[imported_Aelius]

I hate to say it but it reminds me of what happend to me recently where I worked. The government just got rid of me because I dared to do my job very well. Instead they hired, and offered to hire, people in my place whom have been previously fired, are known dog fvckers or simply left for greener pasture.

I was one of two, which is why I found this story kind of funny. It's close to what I experienced.

Why?

My answer is poor leadership.

Forgive me if I give military examples but I used to be a soldier once. During the invasion of Panama an American Sgt. shot and killed a man in a crowed at a checkpoint. He was brought up on charges. I don't recall if he was sent to prison or not but even if he had not the fact the case was even put forth destroyed his career and whatever confidence he may have had.

His crime? He shot a man who was pulling the pin on a hand grenade. He could have killed/injured dozens at the busy checkpoint.

The message to the US soldiers was loud and clear. Dare to do your job and be punished severely. Better if you die than the enemy.

That's lack of leadership. I have suffered it many times but not as vividly as when I most recently lost my job under similar circumstances.

As an example of good leadership. An officer (Lt. I think) in the Israeli Navy came uppon a boat trying to infiltrate the Israeli coast. As soon as they were identified the men in the boat were shot dead. He was brought to a hearing to determine the officer's fate. He said that he put the lives of his men and the safety of Israel above the rights of a boat full of gunmen. He had them shot because he feared they would likely have grenades which they could use to kill his crew or sink his ship. The officer was promoted to Captain on the spot.

The message to Israeli officers was loud and clear. Put your crew and country ahead of the safety of the enemy and be rewarded in kind.

Canada tends to fall flat on its face when it comes to leadership. From my years working for the government I have seen virtually no leadership in the public service. None. At least in the military I had a few good leaders I could depend on.

sigh

 

[imported_Aelius]

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Well if we don't hold our police accountable to laws too they will just shoot anybody who looks like he might commit a crime, no?

Holding people accountable is one thing. Hanging them out to dry is quite another.

I have a passion for hating poor leaders and tend to idolize the good ones. Probably because they are few and far between.

 

[rudder]

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Well if we don't hold our police accountable to laws too they will just shoot anybody who looks like he might commit a crime, no?

Ramos' fellow agent, Jose Alonso Compean, was lying on the ground behind him, banged up and bloody from a scuffle with the much-bigger smuggler moments earlier.

Fighting with a border patrol agent is a little more than just looking like he might commit a crime.

 

[13Gigatons]

Unbelievable, I hope the prosecutor gets what he deserves for pursuing this case.

 

[ayabe]

I would be interested in finding out more about this case, sounds pretty ridiculous on it's face, so much so that I'm having a hard time believing it to be true.

Personally, I think the Marine Corps should conduct their sniper school markmanship training on the border. That might give these drug smugglers something to think about.

 

[CycloWizard]

Originally posted by: Aelius
Forgive me if I give military examples but I used to be a soldier once. During the invasion of Panama an American Sgt. shot and killed a man in a crowed at a checkpoint. He was brought up on charges. I don't recall if he was sent to prison or not but even if he had not the fact the case was even put forth destroyed his career and whatever confidence he may have had.

His crime? He shot a man who was pulling the pin on a hand grenade. He could have killed/injured dozens at the busy checkpoint.

The message to the US soldiers was loud and clear. Dare to do your job and be punished severely. Better if you die than the enemy.

That's lack of leadership. I have suffered it many times but not as vividly as when I most recently lost my job under similar circumstances.

As an example of good leadership. An officer (Lt. I think) in the Israeli Navy came uppon a boat trying to infiltrate the Israeli coast. As soon as they were identified the men in the boat were shot dead. He was brought to a hearing to determine the officer's fate. He said that he put the lives of his men and the safety of Israel above the rights of a boat full of gunmen. He had them shot because he feared they would likely have grenades which they could use to kill his crew or sink his ship. The officer was promoted to Captain on the spot.

The message to Israeli officers was loud and clear. Put your crew and country ahead of the safety of the enemy and be rewarded in kind.

Canada tends to fall flat on its face when it comes to leadership. From my years working for the government I have seen virtually no leadership in the public service. None. At least in the military I had a few good leaders I could depend on.

sigh

This "shoot first and ask questions later" approach would be great if identifying the enemy were so straightforward. The problem we have is deciding who is our enemy, who is a criminal, and is someone really innocent until proven guilty?

 

[ebaycj]

Originally posted by: jpeyton
Don't worry, the Great Wall is going up soon.

Will it double the effectiveness of all walls (for the cities that have walls)? Will it also double attack strength against barbarians?

Oh wait, we've already discovered Metallurgy, so the Great Wall is now obsolete.

 

[imported_Aelius]

Originally posted by: CycloWizard

Originally posted by: Aelius
Forgive me if I give military examples but I used to be a soldier once. During the invasion of Panama an American Sgt. shot and killed a man in a crowed at a checkpoint. He was brought up on charges. I don't recall if he was sent to prison or not but even if he had not the fact the case was even put forth destroyed his career and whatever confidence he may have had.

His crime? He shot a man who was pulling the pin on a hand grenade. He could have killed/injured dozens at the busy checkpoint.

The message to the US soldiers was loud and clear. Dare to do your job and be punished severely. Better if you die than the enemy.

That's lack of leadership. I have suffered it many times but not as vividly as when I most recently lost my job under similar circumstances.

As an example of good leadership. An officer (Lt. I think) in the Israeli Navy came uppon a boat trying to infiltrate the Israeli coast. As soon as they were identified the men in the boat were shot dead. He was brought to a hearing to determine the officer's fate. He said that he put the lives of his men and the safety of Israel above the rights of a boat full of gunmen. He had them shot because he feared they would likely have grenades which they could use to kill his crew or sink his ship. The officer was promoted to Captain on the spot.

The message to Israeli officers was loud and clear. Put your crew and country ahead of the safety of the enemy and be rewarded in kind.

Canada tends to fall flat on its face when it comes to leadership. From my years working for the government I have seen virtually no leadership in the public service. None. At least in the military I had a few good leaders I could depend on.

sigh

This "shoot first and ask questions later" approach would be great if identifying the enemy were so straightforward. The problem we have is deciding who is our enemy, who is a criminal, and is someone really innocent until proven guilty?

That's the problem with you people. You think in absolutes and have zero critical thinking ability.

Nobody said you have to drop a 500lb bomb on a sniper in a densely populated city. Does this happen? Yes. Is it what I'm talking about? No.

The problem is people tend to use no brains and 100% knee jerk reaction to everything.

Perhaps if they actually used brains instead of their dicks they might actually make the right decisions.

 

[CycloWizard]

Originally posted by: Aelius
That's the problem with you people. You think in absolutes and have zero critical thinking ability.

Yes, "we people" (by which I can only assume you mean 'engineers', since I doubt I belong to any of your other wanton stereotypical groups) have no critical thinking skills. We get paid for thinking in absolutes. We are never forced to solve optimization problems in more than one variable. That's why we get paid the big bucks - for our simpleminded absolutism and inability to think outside the box.

Nobody said you have to drop a 500lb bomb on a sniper in a densely populated city. Does this happen? Yes. Is it what I'm talking about? No.

The problem is people tend to use no brains and 100% knee jerk reaction to everything.

Perhaps if they actually used brains instead of their dicks they might actually make the right decisions.

Maybe you could point out where anything I said could be qualified as a 'knee-jerk reaction'. In fact, I would think your kill-them-all-and-let-God-sort-them-out approach is more knee-jerk than giving people a fair shake before deciding that they should die on your personal whim.