US Abandons Goal of Military Victory in Iraq

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imported_Pedro69

Senior member
Jan 18, 2005
259
0
0
Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
"Bushbots."

You know what? There are some people in the US who can think for themselves and don't base their opinion on what Bush told them. Those same people don't allow their opinion to be shaped specifically due to their intense hatred of the admin either, like so many of the knee-jerk reactionaries in here who instantly assume that anything aligned with a Bush policy must be a bad thing.

Go ahead and let emotions drive your thinking like so many other of the RBH lemmings in here. Those lemmings are nothing but anti-Bushbots who can't seem to elevate their level of thinking and discourse beyond the Beavis and Butthead level of "Bush sucks." Hyperbole and rhetorical devices are all they have, constantly spouting false accusations and prediction that are almost invariably wrong because they rely on overstatement. They dwell on the past instead of looking to the future, clasping their hands tightly together and desparately hoping that, somewhere along the line, Iraq will collapse into one giant ball of failure...a quagmire, a disaster, a blunder. Except that never quite happens and it frustrates their small, hatefull little minds. So they strike out at anyone and everyone who doesn't fall inline with their own loonie-left-lemming-like thinking, whning and complaining at the highest decivels they can emit, and always keeping that hankey ready to wipe the spittle from the corners of their mouth.

Congrats on joining that crew.

*Hint: Ranting about loonie-left-lemming doesn't justify the invasion of Iraq ;)
 

drinkmorejava

Diamond Member
Jun 24, 2004
3,567
7
81
Originally posted by: BBond
No neoCON Bushie apologist has ever answered this question.

What was the urgent circumstance which forced George Bush to attack Iraq unprovoked on March 19, 2003?



PS Illegal is defined by accepted international law -- for example, the UN Charter which Bush ignored when he unilaterally invaded Iraq without cause.

Who defines what is legal? Bush? You?

Urgent: Compelling immediate action or attention; pressing.

I'm sorry, do you have a problem with the word urgent. The last time I checked, you don't plan a war out and station troops 5 years in advance and wait till you get trigger happy. Rising tensions in the region prompted immediate attention from the US to investigate future possibilities. When certain conditions like Iraqi (as in Saddam) non compliance and sufficient support were met, the war started at the most convenient time. And that time was when we thought we knew where Saddam was.

If you have learned anything from any of your history classes, you would know you don't wait for some major incident to attack, because you always end up with more costs...including lives and money. As for unprovoked I suggest looking at older threads regarding the same issue, it?s not worth anyone's time trying to re-explain to you because obviously, you'll never get it.

I guess since Bush is the commander and chief he would have had the ultimate authority to define "legal" in the terms of war for the US. However, since the war did/is having such a huge impact on the US in political, economic, and social terms, the recent election would have been a decent indicator of who thought it was "legal". If you have a problem with that, maybe you should complain to your liberal news sources because they seem to say it often enough.
 

CADsortaGUY

Lifer
Oct 19, 2001
25,162
1
76
www.ShawCAD.com
Originally posted by: Pedro69
Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
"Bushbots."

You know what? There are some people in the US who can think for themselves and don't base their opinion on what Bush told them. Those same people don't allow their opinion to be shaped specifically due to their intense hatred of the admin either, like so many of the knee-jerk reactionaries in here who instantly assume that anything aligned with a Bush policy must be a bad thing.

Go ahead and let emotions drive your thinking like so many other of the RBH lemmings in here. Those lemmings are nothing but anti-Bushbots who can't seem to elevate their level of thinking and discourse beyond the Beavis and Butthead level of "Bush sucks." Hyperbole and rhetorical devices are all they have, constantly spouting false accusations and prediction that are almost invariably wrong because they rely on overstatement. They dwell on the past instead of looking to the future, clasping their hands tightly together and desparately hoping that, somewhere along the line, Iraq will collapse into one giant ball of failure...a quagmire, a disaster, a blunder. Except that never quite happens and it frustrates their small, hatefull little minds. So they strike out at anyone and everyone who doesn't fall inline with their own loonie-left-lemming-like thinking, whning and complaining at the highest decivels they can emit, and always keeping that hankey ready to wipe the spittle from the corners of their mouth.

Congrats on joining that crew.

*Hint: Ranting about loonie-left-lemming doesn't justify the invasion of Iraq ;)

You're right it doesn't justify the invation, however the facts justify the invasion and removal of Saddam. Laughing at the loonie fringe is icing on the cake though:laugh:

CsG
 

yllus

Elite Member & Lifer
Aug 20, 2000
20,577
432
126
Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY
You're right it doesn't justify the invasion, however the facts justify the invasion and removal of Saddam. Laughing at the loonie fringe is icing on the cake though:laugh:
Silly "neocon". Don't you know that nothing justifies outsiders impeding a dictator's right to routinely torture, murder and enslave his populace? :p
 

imported_Pedro69

Senior member
Jan 18, 2005
259
0
0
Originally posted by: yllus
Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY
You're right it doesn't justify the invasion, however the facts justify the invasion and removal of Saddam. Laughing at the loonie fringe is icing on the cake though:laugh:
Silly "neocon". Don't you know that nothing justifies outsiders impeding a dictator's right to routinely torture, murder and enslave his populace? :p

What facts are you talking about? The non existent Link to Al Queda or the non existent WMD?
Don't give me the crap about Hussein gasing and torturing his people, because if it wouldn't fit your agenda you gave a rats a** about the Iraqi people. And the same goes for your President.


 

yllus

Elite Member & Lifer
Aug 20, 2000
20,577
432
126
Originally posted by: Pedro69
Originally posted by: yllus
Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY
You're right it doesn't justify the invasion, however the facts justify the invasion and removal of Saddam. Laughing at the loonie fringe is icing on the cake though:laugh:
Silly "neocon". Don't you know that nothing justifies outsiders impeding a dictator's right to routinely torture, murder and enslave his populace? :p
What facts are you talking about? The non existent Link to Al Queda or the non existent WMD?
Don't give me the crap about Hussein gasing and torturing his people, because if it wouldn't fit your agenda you gave a rats a** about the Iraqi people. And the same goes for your President.
Uh, do you really need to look hard for reasons Hussein should have been deposed? How about one from Scott Ritter, unabashed Bush critic: "The [children's] prison in question is at the General Security Services headquarters, which was inspected by my team in Jan. 1998. It appeared to be a prison for children ? toddlers up to pre-adolescents ? whose only crime was to be the offspring of those who have spoken out politically against the regime of Saddam Hussein. It was a horrific scene."

So Hussein gassing and torturing his people is irrelevant because it fits my agenda? Interesting logic. Personally, I prefer pragmatism to your apparent relativistic morality; do what good you can in the world, when you can.
 

imported_Pedro69

Senior member
Jan 18, 2005
259
0
0
Did I say it was irrelevant? Nope I didn't. But I am pretty sure about one thing: It was irrelevant for you before 2003. And this is the nice detail you forget to mention.

Proof me wrong.

 

yllus

Elite Member & Lifer
Aug 20, 2000
20,577
432
126
Originally posted by: Pedro69
Did I say it was irrelevant? Nope I didn't. But I am pretty sure about one thing: It was irrelevant for you before 2003. And this is the nice detail you forget to mention.

Proof me wrong.
Well gee, you were the one who responded to "Don't you know that nothing justifies outsiders impeding a dictator's right to routinely torture, murder and enslave his populace?" with "What facts are you talking about?". Then the rest of your statement pretty concretely infers that those things are irrelevant because a link to Al Qaeda or WMD doesn't exist.

Try proving yourself right before calling out others to prove you wrong - especially when the basis of your argument is made on assumptions on what others may have found relevant in the past. My "agenda", if you call the spread of uniform human rights and democracy thus, is shared by this president, as well as the previous two before him. Some of us have wanted this to happen for a long time.
 
Sep 12, 2004
16,852
59
86
Originally posted by: Pedro69
Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
"Bushbots."

You know what? There are some people in the US who can think for themselves and don't base their opinion on what Bush told them. Those same people don't allow their opinion to be shaped specifically due to their intense hatred of the admin either, like so many of the knee-jerk reactionaries in here who instantly assume that anything aligned with a Bush policy must be a bad thing.

Go ahead and let emotions drive your thinking like so many other of the RBH lemmings in here. Those lemmings are nothing but anti-Bushbots who can't seem to elevate their level of thinking and discourse beyond the Beavis and Butthead level of "Bush sucks." Hyperbole and rhetorical devices are all they have, constantly spouting false accusations and prediction that are almost invariably wrong because they rely on overstatement. They dwell on the past instead of looking to the future, clasping their hands tightly together and desparately hoping that, somewhere along the line, Iraq will collapse into one giant ball of failure...a quagmire, a disaster, a blunder. Except that never quite happens and it frustrates their small, hatefull little minds. So they strike out at anyone and everyone who doesn't fall inline with their own loonie-left-lemming-like thinking, whning and complaining at the highest decivels they can emit, and always keeping that hankey ready to wipe the spittle from the corners of their mouth.

Congrats on joining that crew.

*Hint: Ranting about loonie-left-lemming doesn't justify the invasion of Iraq ;)
*Hint: Calling people "Bushbots" doesn't justify your own rant or disqualify the invasion of Iraq.

All the "But...but...but...Bush" isn't going to change a thing at this point. So forget about WMDs, the UN, the opinion of the RoTW, and all the other garbage in the past that the loonie-left (Or should I call them the "Blind-eyers?) constantly drone on about, like a broken record, are ultimately meaningless now.

Learn that and then move on.
 

imported_Pedro69

Senior member
Jan 18, 2005
259
0
0
Originally posted by: yllus
Originally posted by: Pedro69
Did I say it was irrelevant? Nope I didn't. But I am pretty sure about one thing: It was irrelevant for you before 2003. And this is the nice detail you forget to mention.

Proof me wrong.
Well gee, you were the one who responded to "Don't you know that nothing justifies outsiders impeding a dictator's right to routinely torture, murder and enslave his populace?" with "What facts are you talking about?". Then the rest of your statement pretty concretely infers that those things are irrelevant because a link to Al Qaeda or WMD doesn't exist.

Try proving yourself right before calling out others to prove you wrong - especially when the basis of your argument is made on assumptions on what others may have found relevant in the past. My "agenda", if you call the spread of uniform human rights and democracy thus, is shared by this president, as well as the previous two before him. Some of us have wanted this to happen for a long time.

Spread of uniform human rights and democracy at gun point???

Guys like you are the reason the US is more hated then ever, and when Bin Laden strikes the next time you can expect that not only the muslim world will cheer.

This isn't some Wild West movie, this is real life and your actions will have consequences..

Have a nice life :D
 

imported_Pedro69

Senior member
Jan 18, 2005
259
0
0
Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
Originally posted by: Pedro69
Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
"Bushbots."

You know what? There are some people in the US who can think for themselves and don't base their opinion on what Bush told them. Those same people don't allow their opinion to be shaped specifically due to their intense hatred of the admin either, like so many of the knee-jerk reactionaries in here who instantly assume that anything aligned with a Bush policy must be a bad thing.

Go ahead and let emotions drive your thinking like so many other of the RBH lemmings in here. Those lemmings are nothing but anti-Bushbots who can't seem to elevate their level of thinking and discourse beyond the Beavis and Butthead level of "Bush sucks." Hyperbole and rhetorical devices are all they have, constantly spouting false accusations and prediction that are almost invariably wrong because they rely on overstatement. They dwell on the past instead of looking to the future, clasping their hands tightly together and desparately hoping that, somewhere along the line, Iraq will collapse into one giant ball of failure...a quagmire, a disaster, a blunder. Except that never quite happens and it frustrates their small, hatefull little minds. So they strike out at anyone and everyone who doesn't fall inline with their own loonie-left-lemming-like thinking, whning and complaining at the highest decivels they can emit, and always keeping that hankey ready to wipe the spittle from the corners of their mouth.

Congrats on joining that crew.

*Hint: Ranting about loonie-left-lemming doesn't justify the invasion of Iraq ;)
*Hint: Calling people "Bushbots" doesn't justify your own rant or disqualify the invasion of Iraq.

All the "But...but...but...Bush" isn't going to change a thing at this point. So forget about WMDs, the UN, the opinion of the RoTW, and all the other garbage in the past that the loonie-left (Or should I call them the "Blind-eyers?) constantly drone on about, like a broken record, are ultimately meaningless now.

Learn that and then move on.

I see you are still ranting, tell me when you are finished and maybe then we can have a decent conversation (I highly doubt it, but anyway). Until then so long..
 

yllus

Elite Member & Lifer
Aug 20, 2000
20,577
432
126
Originally posted by: Pedro69
Spread of uniform human rights and democracy at gun point???

Guys like you are the reason the US is more hated then ever, and when Bin Laden strikes the next time you can expect that not only the muslim world will cheer.

This isn't some Wild West movie, this is real life and your actions will have consequences..

Have a nice life :D
If guns is what it will take, guns is what it will be. Go over and try and establish a dialogue with Al-Sistani or Bin Laden - let us know how that goes. Guys like me let spineless people like you continue to talk up the merits of dictators while we keep 'em in check, or topple 'em if the opportunity arises. I don't need to watch a movie to realize there's a time for words and a time for action.

Likewise - have a nice life cowering before others and kowtowing to your opponents. :)
 
Sep 12, 2004
16,852
59
86
Originally posted by: Pedro69
I see you are still ranting, tell me when you are finished and maybe then we can have a decent conversation (I highly doubt it, but anyway). Until then so long..
For someone who came out firing with his first post in P&N as a rant you'll have to excuse me if I take your suggestion of having a discussion with a grain of salt.

Feel free to demonstrate you are of an actual discussion mindset though. I'm game if you are.
 

cwjerome

Diamond Member
Sep 30, 2004
4,346
26
81
Originally posted by: Pedro69
Originally posted by: yllus
Originally posted by: Pedro69
Did I say it was irrelevant? Nope I didn't. But I am pretty sure about one thing: It was irrelevant for you before 2003. And this is the nice detail you forget to mention.

Proof me wrong.
Well gee, you were the one who responded to "Don't you know that nothing justifies outsiders impeding a dictator's right to routinely torture, murder and enslave his populace?" with "What facts are you talking about?". Then the rest of your statement pretty concretely infers that those things are irrelevant because a link to Al Qaeda or WMD doesn't exist.

Try proving yourself right before calling out others to prove you wrong - especially when the basis of your argument is made on assumptions on what others may have found relevant in the past. My "agenda", if you call the spread of uniform human rights and democracy thus, is shared by this president, as well as the previous two before him. Some of us have wanted this to happen for a long time.

Spread of uniform human rights and democracy at gun point???

Guys like you are the reason the US is more hated then ever, and when Bin Laden strikes the next time you can expect that not only the muslim world will cheer.

This isn't some Wild West movie, this is real life and your actions will have consequences..

Have a nice life :D


Poor little Pedro is so sad at the naughty USA, boo-hoo :roll:

You're right about one thing: This IS real life and it's about time America imposes consequences that were a long time coming.

PS- I'm pleased to hear that the US is hated by others because that means we aren't kissing ass and turning away from idiots and thugs. I for one am through making nice with the jackasses of the world -you included- and I'm glad the United States is taking the appropriate stance the current world situation necessitates.



 

drinkmorejava

Diamond Member
Jun 24, 2004
3,567
7
81
Originally posted by: Pedro69
Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
"Bushbots."

You know what? There are some people in the US who can think for themselves and don't base their opinion on what Bush told them. Those same people don't allow their opinion to be shaped specifically due to their intense hatred of the admin either, like so many of the knee-jerk reactionaries in here who instantly assume that anything aligned with a Bush policy must be a bad thing.

Go ahead and let emotions drive your thinking like so many other of the RBH lemmings in here. Those lemmings are nothing but anti-Bushbots who can't seem to elevate their level of thinking and discourse beyond the Beavis and Butthead level of "Bush sucks." Hyperbole and rhetorical devices are all they have, constantly spouting false accusations and prediction that are almost invariably wrong because they rely on overstatement. They dwell on the past instead of looking to the future, clasping their hands tightly together and desparately hoping that, somewhere along the line, Iraq will collapse into one giant ball of failure...a quagmire, a disaster, a blunder. Except that never quite happens and it frustrates their small, hatefull little minds. So they strike out at anyone and everyone who doesn't fall inline with their own loonie-left-lemming-like thinking, whning and complaining at the highest decivels they can emit, and always keeping that hankey ready to wipe the spittle from the corners of their mouth.

Congrats on joining that crew.

*Hint: Ranting about loonie-left-lemming doesn't justify the invasion of Iraq ;)


Actually, I think thats about as civil as it can get

Originally posted by: Pedro69
Originally posted by: yllus
Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY
You're right it doesn't justify the invasion, however the facts justify the invasion and removal of Saddam. Laughing at the loonie fringe is icing on the cake though:laugh:
Silly "neocon". Don't you know that nothing justifies outsiders impeding a dictator's right to routinely torture, murder and enslave his populace? :p

What facts are you talking about? The non existent Link to Al Queda or the non existent WMD?
Don't give me the crap about Hussein gasing and torturing his people, because if it wouldn't fit your agenda you gave a rats a** about the Iraqi people. And the same goes for your President.

Well, I do believe the gulf war would infer giving a damn about other people in the world...even when it doesn't fit some agenda. And if you weren't so quick to conclusions, you would bother to look at how close we actually were in 1991 to liberating Iraq.

 

imported_Pedro69

Senior member
Jan 18, 2005
259
0
0
You guys crack me really up (and most of my friends and family). It's been a long time since I had such a good laugh.

Bin laden and his thugs play you like fiddle and you still think you have the upper hand. Well this happens when you underestimate your enemy, but this is a common problem with you guys.

Anyhow enjoy your next Terrorist Attack:: http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=s...nm/20050228/ts_nm/security_binladen_dc
 
Sep 12, 2004
16,852
59
86
Oh geez. Another one of those claiming "YOU ARE PLAYING RIGHT INTO BIN LADEN'S HANDS."

:roll:

Uh, Pedro. bin Laden has been advocating that Islamic terrorists target the US since at least '92. Did you not get the memo?

And underestimating the enemy is assuming we can appease them. They cannot be appeased, or don't you know that little tid-bit either? Or maybe you just don't understand or refuse to understand? Maybe you should consider that while you're seemingly so embroiled in glee and joyous celebration at the thought of another attack?
 

Steeplerot

Lifer
Mar 29, 2004
13,051
6
81
Yeah cuz blowing yourself up is a compliment in their society right? They blow up for fun! Just showing us they love our freedoms :roll:
 

cwjerome

Diamond Member
Sep 30, 2004
4,346
26
81
What Pedro and his ilk need to understand is that the problems we face aren't because of "blowback." It's caused by the opposite: A weak, non-principled, pragmatic foreign policy of appeasement and impotence.
 

raildogg

Lifer
Aug 24, 2004
12,892
572
126
Originally posted by: Steeplerot
Becasue blowing people's familys up always makes friends! right cw? :roll:

You're right, what are these terrorist thugs in Iraq trying to accomplish? They're just sick evil human beings. They killed a 100+ today in a single bomb attack.

The Iraqis are turned off by this and are increasingly turning their back to the terrorist scum. They are on the losing side, thats why they're increasingly becoming more desperate.
 

Proletariat

Diamond Member
Dec 9, 2004
5,614
0
0
Originally posted by: cwjerome
Originally posted by: Pedro69
Originally posted by: yllus
Originally posted by: Pedro69
Did I say it was irrelevant? Nope I didn't. But I am pretty sure about one thing: It was irrelevant for you before 2003. And this is the nice detail you forget to mention.

Proof me wrong.
Well gee, you were the one who responded to "Don't you know that nothing justifies outsiders impeding a dictator's right to routinely torture, murder and enslave his populace?" with "What facts are you talking about?". Then the rest of your statement pretty concretely infers that those things are irrelevant because a link to Al Qaeda or WMD doesn't exist.

Try proving yourself right before calling out others to prove you wrong - especially when the basis of your argument is made on assumptions on what others may have found relevant in the past. My "agenda", if you call the spread of uniform human rights and democracy thus, is shared by this president, as well as the previous two before him. Some of us have wanted this to happen for a long time.

Spread of uniform human rights and democracy at gun point???

Guys like you are the reason the US is more hated then ever, and when Bin Laden strikes the next time you can expect that not only the muslim world will cheer.

This isn't some Wild West movie, this is real life and your actions will have consequences..

Have a nice life :D


Poor little Pedro is so sad at the naughty USA, boo-hoo :roll:

You're right about one thing: This IS real life and it's about time America imposes consequences that were a long time coming.

PS- I'm pleased to hear that the US is hated by others because that means we aren't kissing ass and turning away from idiots and thugs. I for one am through making nice with the jackasses of the world -you included- and I'm glad the United States is taking the appropriate stance the current world situation necessitates.
Lets say there are 193 people in a school. If most of those 193 hate you or dislike you and consider you a big bully; isn't that what you are? Did you ever meet someone in real life that is hated by most people he/she meets and still consider that person a nice/decent/good person?
 

cwjerome

Diamond Member
Sep 30, 2004
4,346
26
81
Lets say there are 193 people in a school. If most of those 193 hate you or dislike you and consider you a big bully; isn't that what you are?

In short: No.

Lets say many of those people are weaker homocidal clowns and/or weaker dysfunctional morons, and you are the strongest, most influential person who keeps them under control.

Dumb hypotheticals aside, right and wrong and truth and reality are not decided by counting heads. You should know that.
 

Proletariat

Diamond Member
Dec 9, 2004
5,614
0
0
Originally posted by: cwjerome
Lets say there are 193 people in a school. If most of those 193 hate you or dislike you and consider you a big bully; isn't that what you are?

In short: No.

Lets say many of those people are weaker homocidal clowns and/or weaker dysfunctional morons, and you are the strongest, most influential person who keeps them under control.

Dumb hypotheticals aside, right and wrong and truth and reality are not decided by counting heads. You should know that.
Hmm... America keeps people under control. So then you would say America's funding/support of Osama Bin Laden and his cronies and their subsequent strike on America is "keeping things under control". That really should be the Republicans new slogan whenever they do anything controversial. "DON'T WORRY FOLKS WE ARE KEEPING THINGS UNDER CONTROL".

I seem to see a pattern emerging here with conservatives. You like the position of global bully. Whereas the liberals are more content with working with others in order to obtain a solution.


Bully:
1 a : a blustering browbeating person; especially : one habitually cruel to others who are weaker b : PIMP
2 : a hired ruffian