Urgent info needed from Microsoft people!

imported_Phil

Diamond Member
Feb 10, 2001
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OK, here's the deal:

Our company is in the process of tendering for a large University order, consisting of a mix of AMD and Intel machines. The University guys are having problems with the AMD machines, getting them to accept their "one fits all" disk image.

They've found that by disabling intelppm.sys in Safe Mode (which the machine will boot to) resolves this, but want to know if this will have any further implications or problems.

Any info appreciated, and I've already Google'd for info ;)
 

MrChad

Lifer
Aug 22, 2001
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Why would you have a "one fits all" disk image and then order a mix of processors and hardware?
 

imported_Phil

Diamond Member
Feb 10, 2001
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Originally posted by: MrChad
Why would you have a "one fits all" disk image and then order a mix of processors and hardware?

Because their image renumerates all Plug & Play hardware on first boot, thus removing the need for seperate images.

Believe me when I say that these guys really know what they're doing; they've actually customised Windows XP for their needs. Couldn't believe half the stuff I was seeing.

Anyway, got any useful info, or did you just come in here for a dump? :p
 

Smilin

Diamond Member
Mar 4, 2002
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Disabling intelppm.sys on an AMD machine will not cause any problems for you down the road.

However, the reason that you need to at all is a sign of something more troubling. Your hardware is not being redetected since this is an inbox driver for intel processors.

Important:
Could we get some more details about how they are imaging? Are they using Ghost/sysprep, RIS/Riprep, ADS, what? Taking the wrong shortcut somewhere can give you the appearance that your imaging process is all fine and dandy when you can have serious enterprise wide problems later on.


Common pitfall that admins run into:
A single image is sometimes not a realistic goal. You CANNOT jump hals. You might be able to pound a square peg in a round hole once to get things to work but if you try and use a single image on multiple hals you ARE going to have problems. Desktops and Laptops often have different Hals for instance.

Take one of your intel machines, run normal windows setup on it. Goto device manager and see what kind of hal is listed under the PC. Now do the same thing for one of your AMD boxes (no shortcuts or images!! must let windows setup run!) Compare the two hals. If they are the same then the long story made short is you'll be able to get it to work. If not, make two images.


edit: added the extra italics/bold/underline. Your "guys who really know what they are doing" are doing something very wrong. Please reply with some details about the process they are using.
 

bsobel

Moderator Emeritus<br>Elite Member
Dec 9, 2001
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Believe me when I say that these guys really know what they're doing

Then why the need for the question? ;)

As you probably already know, thats the power management driver for Intel CPU's. As the plug-n-play operation you guys run thru detecting and installing the right AMD cpu drivers? If not, that will be a problem.

Bill

 

imported_Phil

Diamond Member
Feb 10, 2001
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Originally posted by: Smilin
Disabling intelppm.sys on an AMD machine will not cause any problems for you down the road.

However, the reason that you need to at all is a sign of something more troubling. Your hardware is not being redetected since this is an inbox driver for intel processors.

That's a good point; I assume that they've missed something during the image creation, as they've only ever worked with Intel before, and would have done what is necessary to get the image to work, not necessarily planning ahead... :roll:

Important:
Could we get some more details about how they are imaging? Are they using Ghost/sysprep, RIS/Riprep, ADS, what? Taking the wrong shortcut somewhere can give you the appearance that your imaging process is all fine and dandy when you can have serious enterprise wide problems later on.

AFAIK, it's Ghost and Sysprep, with some modifications made. For example, when they managed to get the machine booting, the regular "Loading your personal settings" dialogue box had a large amount of text going past, and the process took around fifteen minutes, with the network going flat-out the entire time. I assume this is Intellimirror / MSI package deployment on first boot?


Common pitfall that admins run into:
A single image is sometimes not a realistic goal. You CANNOT jump hals. You might be able to pound a square peg in a round hole once to get things to work but if you try and use a single image on multiple hals you ARE going to have problems. Desktops and Laptops often have different Hals for instance.

True. We have tried to gently poke them into making two images, but apparently it's "not an option", and we're inclined to try and get the single image working, because that means they can go with AMD & Intel hardware. If not, then they'll have to settle for Intel only, which means they'll probably choose Dell over us. ;)

Take one of your intel machines, run normal windows setup on it. Goto device manager and see what kind of hal is listed under the PC. Now do the same thing for one of your AMD boxes (no shortcuts or images!! must let windows setup run!) Compare the two hals. If they are the same then the long story made short is you'll be able to get it to work. If not, make two images.

On first glance, it seems that the HALs aren't the problem, as the machine will boot into Safe Mode without any trouble, and the same image works across a range of chipsets, from 845, 865, 915 to 855 and 915 mobile stuff. I could be wrong, however. I'll ask them to get a virgin copy of XP on both platforms and compare the HALs.

edit: added the extra italics/bold/underline. Your "guys who really know what they are doing" are doing something very wrong. Please reply with some details about the process they are using.

I agree. It's entirely possible that they've ballsed-up the hardware detection stuff, but they absolutely wouldn't let me take a copy of their image to play with; I assume that their admin passwords would be stored on it somewhere, and they don't really want "just anyone" peeking into their network setup in depth.
 

imported_Phil

Diamond Member
Feb 10, 2001
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Originally posted by: bsobel
Believe me when I say that these guys really know what they're doing

Then why the need for the question? ;)

:p ;)

As you probably already know, thats the power management driver for Intel CPU's. As the plug-n-play operation you guys run thru detecting and installing the right AMD cpu drivers? If not, that will be a problem.

Bill

With what you and Smilin are saying, I have to agree that there's something weird with the hardware detection. Is there an simple, elegant way of doing this- maybe I can get them to change their image to incorporate a better hardware detection method?
 

Smilin

Diamond Member
Mar 4, 2002
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On first glance, it seems that the HALs aren't the problem, as the machine will boot into Safe Mode without any trouble, and the same image works across a range of chipsets, from 845, 865, 915 to 855 and 915 mobile stuff. I could be wrong, however. I'll ask them to get a virgin copy of XP on both platforms and compare the HALs.

Definately get them to do a clean install on each hardware platform in question. This HAL thing is not an option. AMD vs Intel is not a huge deal at all, you can get the same image to work fine. What is a huge deal is that HAL. Mobile stuff often uses some form of APIC (MPS Uniprocessor for example) while modern desktops are usually ACPI

Here is the no-no list:
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;828287

Which also refers to:
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/309283/

If your techs are trying to bypass these rules in order to obtain a single image then they should be let go. Do not let any form of success while breaking these rules lure you into a false sense of accomplishment. It will bite you later after you have rolled out and the cost to correct the problem will be staggering.

After being given some training so intense that blood oozed from our ears about HALS, ACPI, PNP and interrupts there was a manager at MS that summed it up nicely, "So now you know why the macintosh couldn't have really infected the alien mother ship with that virus in 'Independence Day'". :p
 

mandrake99

Junior Member
May 16, 2004
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The name of the file gives it away "intelppm.sys" is a processor driver for an Intel processor, therefore it is obvious why the AMD processor machines are puking on it.