Urgent - Can I use a trickle charger without access to the negative post?

[Scouzer]

I have a 2014 Escape. It has a RETARDED battery configuration that makes the negative post inaccessible. The workaround in the manual if you need a boost is to hook the black cord to the frame.

Is that safe to do for trickle charging too?

Update:

Well, we boosted the car and nil. I figured it was just frozen--it was -35c (-31F) after all.

So we towed it home and put it in the heated garage, but it still won't start. I've trickle charged the battery so it cranks really hard, but doesn't catch. I am wondering if something got wrecked trying to boost it.

We definitely followed the procedure in the owners manual.

It's a 2014 with only 2000 miles so I am pretty annoyed.

 

[pcgeek11]

I have a 2014 Escape. It has a RETARDED battery configuration that makes the negative post inaccessible. The workaround in the manual if you need a boost is to hook the black cord to the frame.

Is that safe to do for trickle charging too?

Yes.

The Negative Battery Terminal is connected directly to the frame. Electrically they are the same point.

 

[Scouzer]

Thank you!

 

[alpineranger]

For jump starting any car it is often recommended not to use the negative battery post even when it is easily accessible. The reasoning is to keep the jumper cables away from the battery, where hydrogen gas can build up. And as stated, the negative battery post is the electrical ground of the system, so any other ground in the engine compartment is equivalent.

 

[iamwiz82]

You always use a bare metal contact point in the engine and not the negative itself. Is there nothing in the manual to show you were to hook to? One of my cars has the battery in the rear but there is a positive and a ground point in the engine bay for just such things.

 

[LTC8K6]

I have a 2014 Escape. It has a RETARDED battery configuration that makes the negative post inaccessible. The workaround in the manual if you need a boost is to hook the black cord to the frame.

Is that safe to do for trickle charging too?

That is always the safe way for charging or jump starting.

 

[Wingznut]

Quick explanation of where to attach the cables (YouTube)

 

[tamm]

This has been the norm for most german makes, since they place the main battery in the back (trunk area) for optimum weight distribution and accessory battery under the front passenger seat (some Mbs). The only way to jumpstart or charge them is thru a positive terminal contact in the engine bay, and find a piece of the frame (now they have a specific frame spot to help customers) for the negative.

 

[LTC8K6]

Quick explanation of where to attach the cables (YouTube)

Perhaps the pic is misleading about the distance, but that negative connection doesn't look very far away from the battery.

I thought the idea was to make that last connection away from the battery, so that any sparks would not be near the battery.

 

[schmuckley]

Yes..just ground (clamp) the negative cable to the frame.

 

[phucheneh]

Perhaps the pic is misleading about the distance, but that negative connection doesn't look very far away from the battery.

I thought the idea was to make that last connection away from the battery, so that any sparks would not be near the battery.

Yes.

While I will certainly not advise against this philosophy...it IS kinda silly, though...dead batteries aren't going to be gassing.

You connect the dead battery last, and make the negative connection somewhere other that the post. It doesn't have to be that far away; the goal is simply to move it to the side. If present, gaseous hydrogen (the reason for the precaution) is going to rise straight up. So pretty much anything is a better idea than the terminal, and far less likely to ignite said hydrogen.

You gotta really have the planets aligned to make a boomboom with a jumpstart, though. Your battery would have to be getting overcharged, probably to the point of a noticeable smell and often a swollen case or popped well caps. Most people, hopefully, don't try a jumpstart at that point. When I see batteries like that, I am extra cautious. Full face shield, new pair of gloves. Carefully remove and leave it in a safe place so that a) someone other than me, like a parts guy, can deal with it or b) it can just sit there until I feel more sure it's not gonna 'splode if I touch it.

I'm sure I've said it before, but will say it again. Battery explosions are no fucking joke. Don't discount batteries as something not dangerous. And for the love of god, never beat on the terminals.

 

[Wingznut]

Perhaps the pic is misleading about the distance, but that negative connection doesn't look very far away from the battery.

I thought the idea was to make that last connection away from the battery, so that any sparks would not be near the battery.

That distance is fine... You would have to have an outrageous amount of outgassing, and a freakish lack of dispersion, for a spark to ignite anything from there.

 

[Scouzer]

Well, we boosted the car and nil. I figured it was just frozen--it was -35c (-31F) after all.

So we towed it home and put it in the heated garage, but it still won't start. I've trickle charged the battery so it cranks really hard, but doesn't catch. I am wondering if something got wrecked trying to boost it.

We definitely followed the procedure in the owners manual.

It's a 2014 with only 2000 miles so I am pretty annoyed.

 

[LTC8K6]

Perhaps it's flooded? Try the flooded start procedure, which is usually to hold the gas pedal to the floor when cranking.

I see in the manual, you should also press the brake pedal at the same time.

 

[phucheneh]

Well, we boosted the car and nil. I figured it was just frozen--it was -35c (-31F) after all.

So we towed it home and put it in the heated garage, but it still won't start. I've trickle charged the battery so it cranks really hard, but doesn't catch. I am wondering if something got wrecked trying to boost it.

We definitely followed the procedure in the owners manual.

It's a 2014 with only 2000 miles so I am pretty annoyed.

If it has no signs of life at all while the engine in turning (no sputtering; just a clean steady cranking noise), you've got zero spark and/or zero fuel. On a car that new, I would wager it's immobilizer-related. Look for a security light on the dash.

If not that, probably a blown fuse. You'd be looking for something labeled ECM/PCM, ignition (IGN), fuel, ect. Generally just best to run a tester through all the stuff in the engine bay fuse box.

 

[KentState]

This has been the norm for most german makes, since they place the main battery in the back (trunk area) for optimum weight distribution and accessory battery under the front passenger seat (some Mbs). The only way to jumpstart or charge them is thru a positive terminal contact in the engine bay, and find a piece of the frame (now they have a specific frame spot to help customers) for the negative.

The two cars I had with batteries in the rear had actual jumping posts under the hood.

 

[onelivinlarge]

Sounds like your fuel pump is the feeding any fuel. Now this could be ant number of issues. I would first try fusing. Then to make sure no wires are torn loose wires then if not that likely a ecu security issue

 

[Bartman39]

It's a 2014 with only 2000 miles so I am pretty annoyed.

Damn I mean like call a dealer this should be their problem...?

 

[Scouzer]

Damn I mean like call a dealer this should be their problem...?

It's Christmas. The dealer said it'll be two weeks before they can even look at it... so I'd rather do it myself if I could.

I will have a look at the fuses.

 

[jolancer]

call a different dealer or explain the issue to them? it should be an easy fix for them.. especially if they realize they don't need one of there car bays taken up to help you.

..what in particular happened in the first place? that caused it not to start the first time

..you said you boosted the car? did you trickle charge it overnight? or jump/boost it? if you jumped/boosted it what did you use to do that with?

 

[tamm]

The two cars I had with batteries in the rear had actual jumping posts under the hood.

Back in the 90s they kept two jump posts, with the cross the millennium, Germans have gone to a single jump post. Its odd, but then again the Germans makers have decided to jump over to 48 volt electrical systems due to the high load their cars put on a 12 V system.

 

[tamm]

Well, we boosted the car and nil. I figured it was just frozen--it was -35c (-31F) after all.

So we towed it home and put it in the heated garage, but it still won't start. I've trickle charged the battery so it cranks really hard, but doesn't catch. I am wondering if something got wrecked trying to boost it.

We definitely followed the procedure in the owners manual.

It's a 2014 with only 2000 miles so I am pretty annoyed.

First off, at -35C WTF. Second if after you`ve heated everything up, and the fluids look good then you can rule them out. If the car is cranking really hard, but doesn`t catch it seems something electrical can`t take your weather really well. If you need the car this time of year, then my suggestion would be to figure it out urself, with somebody who knows what they`re doing. Another option would to spread out your knowledge base, by posting on one of the explorer forums. They might be more of assistance than us.

If you don`t need the vehicle for the moment, then let it sit there, and get a dealer involved. At 2000 miles, I would document everything on camera before heading to the dealer. Then get written work orders with exactly your issues, so theirs a paper trail. From there see what comes up. Consult your local lemon laws if you have to.

good luck!

 

[Bartman39]

call a different dealer or explain the issue to them? it should be an easy fix for them.. especially if they realize they don't need one of there car bays taken up to help you.

This for sure...^ 2 weeks I would be on their @zz for that crap Christmas or not (besides its Christmas for you as well and your in a bind)... You pay good money for a new car and should get good service and 2 weeks is BS...

 

[DaTT]

Yes.

While I will certainly not advise against this philosophy...it IS kinda silly, though...dead batteries aren't going to be gassing.

You connect the dead battery last, and make the negative connection somewhere other that the post. It doesn't have to be that far away; the goal is simply to move it to the side. If present, gaseous hydrogen (the reason for the precaution) is going to rise straight up. So pretty much anything is a better idea than the terminal, and far less likely to ignite said hydrogen.

You gotta really have the planets aligned to make a boomboom with a jumpstart, though. Your battery would have to be getting overcharged, probably to the point of a noticeable smell and often a swollen case or popped well caps. Most people, hopefully, don't try a jumpstart at that point. When I see batteries like that, I am extra cautious. Full face shield, new pair of gloves. Carefully remove and leave it in a safe place so that a) someone other than me, like a parts guy, can deal with it or b) it can just sit there until I feel more sure it's not gonna 'splode if I touch it.

I'm sure I've said it before, but will say it again. Battery explosions are no fucking joke. Don't discount batteries as something not dangerous. And for the love of god, never beat on the terminals.

To me, this is along the same lines as venting an inboard/outboard before starting. If you don't vent first, chances are nothing will explode....but there is always that very very small chance that something will go horribly wrong.

 

[Scouzer]

call a different dealer or explain the issue to them? it should be an easy fix for them.. especially if they realize they don't need one of there car bays taken up to help you.

..what in particular happened in the first place? that caused it not to start the first time

..you said you boosted the car? did you trickle charge it overnight? or jump/boost it? if you jumped/boosted it what did you use to do that with?

This for sure...^ 2 weeks I would be on their @zz for that crap Christmas or not (besides its Christmas for you as well and your in a bind)... You pay good money for a new car and should get good service and 2 weeks is BS...

Next closest dealer is about 300 miles away. No other option there.

We tried to start it in -35, it cranked but no go. Battery was low from trying so we boosted it from the tow truck, no luck. Towed it home, put it in the heated garage and charged the battery, still no go.