Upgrading video card--PSU concerns.

[KikBak]

Current video card is 7950 GT, 256 MB, PCI-E 16 with a 6-pin power connection. Have been running XP Pro so I'm happy with it's DX9 performance, BUT I've come into possession of a copy of Vista Ultimate, so I'm now looking for a DX10 capable card (yes I game).

I'll be upgrading other hardware soon (right now CPU socket 939 AMD athlon 4000+ oc'd to 2.8ghz) but my primary concern is my power supply. It's a thermaltake 430W with 18A on the 12V rail. It's run my 7950 GT quite happily, but these newer cards seem to have such high power needs. Questions:

1. Would even a HD 5670 out perform my 7950 GT at DX9? (just want something faster than what I have, that's all)
2. Lots of cheap 9800 GTs out there, could my 430W thermaltake handle them.
3. Is there anything faster than an HD 5670 (it would need external power, I know) that my PSU would be trustworthy with--not looking to upgrade PSU for budgetary reasons).
4. Cheap HD 3850s and HD 4850s pop up from time to time--are they any faster than a HD 5670 (I'm not impressed with GT 240s/440s from what I've read).

Thanks!

PS--Maximum res I game at is 1280 X1024

 

[toyota]

you say that you game but surely you are not playing many modern games with that setup. a 5670 is faster but really any card that is faster than what you already have will be limited by that old single core cpu. also anything faster than a 5670 would tax that psu as reviews show it cannot not even make its advertised 18 amps on the 12v.

honestly I would not even fool with Vista or trying to get a DX10 card. DX10 is pointless as pretty much any DX10 game will require a better cpu anyway. you are way past the point of needing to retire that pc if you care about modern games. IMO you just need to start from scratch including getting Window 7. heck you even need a new monitor as 1280x1024 is the worst possible aspect ratio for gaming.

 

[KikBak]

I play mostly flight sims. Il-2 is DX9 and runs happily on my current set up. Strike Fighters 2 is DX10, and I'd like to see some of the extra eye candy, plus it supposedly runs better in DX10 than DX9. I am planning to replace my mobo, cpu and memory to AM3 board, Athlon II X3 455 @3.3ghz stock, 4MB DDR3 and 500GB HD. GPU and PSU is where I have the question.

 

[happy medium]

The 5670 is your best choice.

 

[KikBak]

HD 5670 was my guess all along. GDR5, not GDR3? 6670s are out there too, might be a bit faster? Thanks.

 

[deimos3428]

If it's one of these, you really don't want to push the PSU. It's based on an older design, and only puts out about 350W:
http://www.hardwaresecrets.com/article/Thermaltake-Purepower-430W-NP-Power-Supply-Review/332/1

If that's the case, I'd recommend budgeting about $50-60 for a solid 450-550W model from Corsair/Antec/Seasonic before upgrading anything else.

 

[toyota]

yes his psu is junk for a 430 watt labeled model but a 5670/6670 will use LESS power than his 7950 gt.

 

[max347]

$30 AMIR-
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...air%20500w

I picked up a 5670 Open Box from newegg last week for $37 shipped, so keep your eyes on that page and you might pick something up. I grabbed an 8800gt from the fst forum for $30 shipped also, which might be something you could do.

 

[DaveSimmons]

You're going to want a new PSU when you upgrade the motherboard, so you could plan to do that now. With a good 5xx - 600 watt PSU you'd be able to choose any nvidia or AMD single-GPU card.

> PS--Maximum res I game at is 1280 X1024

That does make things easier, so you don't need an AMD 6950 or nv 560 ti . . . at least until you upgrade your monitor.

 

[taltamir]

you say that you game but surely you are not playing many modern games with that setup. a 5670 is faster but really any card that is faster than what you already have will be limited by that old single core cpu. also anything faster than a 5670 would tax that psu as reviews show it cannot not even make its advertised 18 amps on the 12v.

honestly I would not even fool with Vista or trying to get a DX10 card. DX10 is pointless as pretty much any DX10 game will require a better cpu anyway. you are way past the point of needing to retire that pc if you care about modern games. IMO you just need to start from scratch including getting Window 7. heck you even need a new monitor as 1280x1024 is the worst possible aspect ratio for gaming.

While Win7 would be ideal, Vista is still a step up from XP. So he should install Vista regardless.

While generally that card is considered too low end for DX10, he could still do DX9 on vista (and should over using it with XP), but if he doesn't upgrade his monitor then his super low resolution will help a lot and might make DX10 playable.

I was going to point out that you assume he cares about modern games but then I noticed that he wants to play DX10 games, so it is actually a well placed assumption.

So my suggestion is:
1. Install vista and keep on playing DX9 games only.
2. Consider rebuilding the system. New mobo, cpu, ram, PSU, and video card... And should probably get a new monitor.
HDD, case, mouse, keyboard, and optical drive are ok to keep.

 

[toyota]

with his old single core cpu, he will not be playing any DX10 games smoothly anyway. all going to Vista will do is put slightly more demands on his already slow system especially if he only has 2gb of memory or less.

 

[taltamir]

with his old single core cpu, he will not be playing any DX10 games smoothly anyway. all going to Vista will do is put slightly more demands on his already slow system especially if he only has 2gb of memory or less.

Windows 7 is faster across the board than WinXP.
Win Vista is faster in some, slower in some. There is aregument if overall it is faster or slower... but it is also much better in terms of security, reliability, and integration of modern technologies. Vista 64 actually has proper driver support (unlike WinXP 64bit) which allows you to run in 64bit mode and enjoy the full speed of your processor (no, not RAM, speed... your processor has a bunch of extra registers and other hardware that is disabled when it runs a 32bit OS and that is a waste, you miss out on quite a bit of performance there even if you run only 32bit programs, the OS itself is running in 64bit).

I would like to point out that also WinXP is no longer supported by the latest versions of some programs and even some drivers. IE9 not supporting XP is just the begining. (and yes, you should probably use firefox & chrome over IE, but moving forwards this is going to be an issue)

Also MS dropped "mainstream support" for XP in 2009, although it is still in "long term support" for until 2014 I wouldn't be expecting too many new security patches for winXP right now.

 

[cusideabelincoln]

1. Would even a HD 5670 out perform my 7950 GT at DX9? (just want something faster than what I have, that's all)
2. Lots of cheap 9800 GTs out there, could my 430W thermaltake handle them.
3. Is there anything faster than an HD 5670 (it would need external power, I know) that my PSU would be trustworthy with--not looking to upgrade PSU for budgetary reasons).
4. Cheap HD 3850s and HD 4850s pop up from time to time--are they any faster than a HD 5670 (I'm not impressed with GT 240s/440s from what I've read).

1. Yes, the 5670 is considerably faster than the 7950.
2. 9800GTs use more power than the 5670. Probably about the same as your 7950 GT, maybe a little more.
3. The HD 6670 (GDDR5), but it's more expensive so it's not a good investment if you're worried about budget. If you were to seriously consider a 6670 my advice would be, at the same price, to pick up a used card like a 9800GT or HD4850, and get a new power supply. 6670s are $80-$90. You can get a better power suppy than the Thermaltake for $35-$40, and a decent used card for $50-60.
4. The HD 3850 is slower; the HD 4850 is faster. Even the HD 3850 is still a lot better than a 7950 GT.

You should really consider upgrading the power supply anyway. Even a 300W Seasonic is more powerful than what you currently have, as it has 24A on +12V which is more than enough for the system you're putting together.

with his old single core cpu, he will not be playing any DX10 games smoothly anyway. all going to Vista will do is put slightly more demands on his already slow system especially if he only has 2gb of memory or less.

He already said he's upgrading the rest of the system. His CPU is a non-concern for his inquiry.

 

[Arkadrel]

I'll be upgrading other hardware soon (right now CPU socket 939 AMD athlon 4000+ oc'd to 2.8ghz) but my primary concern is my power supply. It's a thermaltake 430W with 18A on the 12V rail. It's run my 7950 GT quite happily, but these newer cards seem to have such high power needs. Questions:

1. Would even a HD 5670 out perform my 7950 GT at DX9? (just want something faster than what I have, that's all)
2. Lots of cheap 9800 GTs out there, could my 430W thermaltake handle them.
3. Is there anything faster than an HD 5670 (it would need external power, I know) that my PSU would be trustworthy with--not looking to upgrade PSU for budgetary reasons).
4. Cheap HD 3850s and HD 4850s pop up from time to time--are they any faster than a HD 5670 (I'm not impressed with GT 240s/440s from what I've read).

Thanks!

PS--Maximum res I game at is 1280 X1024

1) To solidy beat a 7950, you need to get atleast a 5550 (GDDR5) or higher card.

2) a 9800 GT has a max consumption of around 180-225watts (depends on if its oc card version or not). So as long as the rest of your system uses less than ~205watts your good to go.
(might run into power issues)

3) A 6850 has a max power consumption of 128watts or so, which is like (45% less than the 9800, while being much much faster), You could safely put a 6850 into your pc with your PSU and have a pretty modern, and fast GPU.

4)
A 3850 would be about equal to a 5670.
A 4850 would be faster, or about equal to a 5770.





You really need a new cpu as wel (perphaps even more so than the gpu):

my suggestion:
ASRock A75M-HVS FM1 AMD A75~69$
AMD A8-3850 Llano 2.9GHz ~139$
4gb (2x 2gb) DDR3 ram ~28$

= 236$

new motherboard with:
Sata/DDR3/USB3(+2)/onboard GPU equal to a 5550.
A CPU thats equal to a 2.9-3.0ghz quad core Phenom II.

 

[toyota]

180-225 watts for the 9800gt card itself? um not even close as a 9800gt only uses about 85-90 watts. all the newer ones would be 55nm so even less than that. heck they even have green editions with slightly lower clocks and those use well under 75 watts and need no power connector.

EDIT: 83 watts for a 9800gt and that is even a 65nm version. http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/graphics/display/msi-9800gt_5.html#sect0

The MSI card uses an ordinary 65nm version of the G92 core instead of the newer 55nm G92b

 

[KikBak]

Thanks everyone for your help! I'm definitely doing the AM3/DDR3/new HD upgrade and (at least if my new DX10/11 card has a 6-pin) new PSU.