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Question Upgrading to next month to upcoming Zen 3: Should I start buying some parts now?

Dave3000

Senior member
Jan 10, 2011
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I currently own a system with a i7-4930k and I'm going to wait for the Ryzen 5800x which should be released in less than a month. Right now Micro Center has the power supply I want to buy (Seasonic Focus 850w, which goes out of stock frequently at that store), and I can order the case (Corsair Carbide 275Q) from Newegg.com. I plan to purchase the motherboard (Asus Strix B550-F, hoping it will have the latest BIOS) at the same time I purchase the CPU, RAM, and CPU cooler, which will be sometime next month if the CPU is in stock. Is it a good I idea to buy the case and power supply now while I wait for the 5800x to be released, especially if that power supply I want goes frequently out of stock at Micro Center? I rather purchase as much parts as I can for my upcoming new system from Micro Center rather than buy all the parts I need online.
 

UsandThem

Elite Member
Super Moderator
May 4, 2000
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Is it a good I idea to buy the case and power supply now while I wait for the 5800x to be released, especially if that power supply I want goes frequently out of stock at Micro Center? I rather purchase as much parts as I can for my upcoming new system from Micro Center rather than buy all the parts I need online.
Maybe?

If you don't want to buy the parts online, and instead want to buy them at Micro Center, it seems logical to buy them when they are in stock (since you say they often sell out).
 

mpo

Senior member
Jan 8, 2010
397
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91
I would say start purchasing your parts now. Computer part supplies seem to be getting better, but not great.

Spent a good month waiting on a decent case fan at my local Micro Center back in August. See the situation has improved a bit--wider range of products, but not many in stock.
 

VirtualLarry

Lifer
Aug 25, 2001
49,235
5,469
126
I would say start purchasing your parts now. Computer part supplies seem to be getting better, but not great.
I agree. BF is coming up (or starting already, depending on your POV). PSU availability and pricing is certainly better than it was at the start of the pandemic, but it has not returned to pre-pandemic pricing, nor availability. Not yet, anyways, and I don't know if it ever will.
 

TheGiant

Senior member
Jun 12, 2017
725
326
106
I currently own a system with a i7-4930k and I'm going to wait for the Ryzen 5800x which should be released in less than a month. Right now Micro Center has the power supply I want to buy (Seasonic Focus 850w, which goes out of stock frequently at that store), and I can order the case (Corsair Carbide 275Q) from Newegg.com. I plan to purchase the motherboard (Asus Strix B550-F, hoping it will have the latest BIOS) at the same time I purchase the CPU, RAM, and CPU cooler, which will be sometime next month if the CPU is in stock. Is it a good I idea to buy the case and power supply now while I wait for the 5800x to be released, especially if that power supply I want goes frequently out of stock at Micro Center? I rather purchase as much parts as I can for my upcoming new system from Micro Center rather than buy all the parts I need online.
my advice is wait for christmas bundles..it is less than 2 months when they start
just resist it :)
 

Shmee

Memory and Storage, Graphics Cards
Super Moderator
Sep 13, 2008
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I would wait for now, at least until the CPU is available. Also, I personally would go with X570 based on feature set, but there may be a refresh of motherboards as well so best to wait and see.
 

inf64

Diamond Member
Mar 11, 2011
3,060
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You could find reasonable replacements for all the parts your plan to buy except the *drum roll* 5800X. So if you absolutely need to get 5800X on the day of the launch, set up some alerts for Microcenter website and a few other online shops and pre-order it as I expect them to get out of stock quickly (I do think it will be a hard launch but demand will be huge).
Someone else suggested that you wait for Christmas bundles which is another option if you are not in a hurry.
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
102,795
17,207
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Things like PSU and cases...buy them when a deal pops up. no reason to wait if you see them at a historically low or reasonable price whenever available. Ditto on your chosen storage solution(s). Memory is less of a question too, it seems, with Zen 2 and likely Zen 3. It probably won't gain as significantly with super fast, tight timed memory like Zen+, or completely limited like Zen 1. So, I'd say find some reasonably fast ~3600 if a deal pops up there, too?

I wouldn't assume an available Mobo on or around the day of 5800X will have the latest BIOS. Those things can sit on shelves for a long time, and different manufacturers are just, well, unpredictable. flashing it is pretty easy these days, though. But best bet is to check ASUS or whoever's product page regularly on status of when Zen3 optimized BIOS are available, and for which boards. But even so, better off checking forums here to see if they actually work.

I don't like buying this stuff at release, especially new architecture like Zen3. There are always growing pains.
 
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JustMe21

Senior member
Sep 8, 2011
319
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91
Case prices and availability don't seem to vary much but definitely pick up a power supply when you can. Motherboards and memory will generally be available until around a processor release date, then expect them to be hard to find for a while since people will be buying new boards and RAM for their CPUs. The Strix-B550-F has the BIOS Flashback button on it, so you will be able to flash a new BIOS without CPU or RAM in it, by using a USB drive.
 
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Dave3000

Senior member
Jan 10, 2011
984
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On Friday I purchased the power supply from Microcenter. It's the Seasonic Focus GX-850. I'm now thinking of purchasing later today or within the next few days the Corsair Vengeance LPX 32GB DDR4-3200 kit that is on sale right now at Best Buy.
 
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chrisjames61

Senior member
Dec 31, 2013
655
373
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On Friday I purchased the power supply from Microcenter. It's the Seasonic Focus GX-850. I'm now thinking of purchasing later today or within the next few days the Corsair Vengeance LPX 32GB DDR4-3200 kit that is on sale right now at Best Buy.
That seems like a pretty slow memory kit for a high end build.
 

Dave3000

Senior member
Jan 10, 2011
984
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That seems like a pretty slow memory kit for a high end build.
Well just like Zen 2, 3200 is the maximum memory speed Zen 3 supports officially, but I'm not sure if it also means that it must be just with JEDEC 3200 timings and voltage or if it's also has official support for XMP 3200 low latency at 1.35v. It does not mention the word JEDEC anywhere, just memory support up to 3200 and I have the link below for reference.


Now I'm considering these DDR4-3200 sticks that have JEDEC timings and voltage:

 

moinmoin

Golden Member
Jun 1, 2017
1,915
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Well just like Zen 2, 3200 is the maximum memory speed Zen 3 supports officially, but I'm not sure if it also means that it must be just with JEDEC 3200 timings and voltage or if it's also has official support for XMP 3200 low latency at 1.35v. It does not mention the word JEDEC anywhere, just memory support up to 3200 and I have the link below for reference.


Now I'm considering these DDR4-3200 sticks that have JEDEC timings and voltage:

JEDEC timings are the only official timings available at stock. Anything deviating from what JEDEC defines has to be considered overclocking/custom.
 

Dave3000

Senior member
Jan 10, 2011
984
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There would be no point in me buying XMP 3200 if I intend to use JEDEC timings and voltage and run everything at stock?
 
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VirtualLarry

Lifer
Aug 25, 2001
49,235
5,469
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I bought some Team Group 'Zeus' DDR4-3200 RAM recently, and I haven't tried it yet in a rig, but it's 1.20V CAS20, which is a little bit unusual (most Hynix DDR4-3200 is 1.35V / CAS16). I don't know who makes the actual chips, but I postulate, that with that low a voltage and high a CAS, that these may be JEDEC-spec DDR4-3200 modules. I picked up a 2x16GB kit for $91.99 a few weeks ago on Newegg.
 

Dave3000

Senior member
Jan 10, 2011
984
15
81
The Zeus sticks at the Teamgroup website mentions that they have an OC profile. So is that 3200 20-22-22 1.2v only accessed through the OC profile or is that an actual programmed JEDEC setting on the 3200 Zeus modules?
 

VirtualLarry

Lifer
Aug 25, 2001
49,235
5,469
126
The Zeus sticks at the Teamgroup website mentions that they have an OC profile. So is that 3200 20-22-22 1.2v only accessed through the OC profile or is that an actual programmed JEDEC setting on the 3200 Zeus modules?
I guess, when I get a chance, I could do an SPD dump or a CPU-Z Memory/SPD screenshot with the SPD info. But that I means that I have to build / work on a PC, and install the kit of RAM that I have. Might be a bit. Look for reviews of those kits online? Maybe someone else already has SPD screenshots. In CPU-Z, they are labeled "JEDEC" and "XMP(2.0)" on top of each section.
 

cellarnoise

Member
Mar 22, 2017
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I am also preparing for a complete Ryzen 5000 build. So far only purchased a new case. Looking at power supplies. Power prices seem to be on a slow downward trend.

I am waiting on reviews for the best combo of RAM, Board, CPU per $. Though the 5950 is looking tasty and I think it will be another 3 or 4 years before I think of upgrading... Oh, also need a cpu cooler. Thinking big Noctua Air, hope they come out with their new models after 1st of the year. Trying to hold out till then.

I also need another SSD, but all the NVMEs are so good anymore I don't really need to look for top performance... Just $ per space?

Also need a new gen Vid card. Not looking for top of the line, but hope for $600 or less...
 
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Gideon

Golden Member
Nov 27, 2007
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There would be no point in me buying XMP 3200 if I intend to use JEDEC timings and voltage and run everything at stock?
BTW if you want to know for sure what memory is compatible with Ryzen and at what timings this is a great page on AMD site (it lists both JEDEC and XMP timings):


If you're dead-set on going for JEDEC, then by all means go for it

What I would strongly recommend however is to get any ram, with a serial number listed on that page, that can do 3600 MHz with XMP. On 99% of the motherboards these modules will just be plug-and-play (you just have to enable XMP). When running on JEDEC timings you'll leave the processor's fabric clock (FCLK) running at 1600 MHz (instead of 1800 MHz) leaving considerable perfomance on the table. Besides JEDEC 3200 Mhz modules are notoriously hard to find and relatively expensive.

I would recommend kits with Micron E-die (as they are usually cheap and work well) or Samsung B-die (if you can still find it but not produced anymore).

If you want to search memory to buy based on the serial number listed the first link, this search here helps immensely (just insert it into the search box on the right):


Example build:
Last year I built a Ryzen 3600 + Tomahawk B450 MAX rig to a friend with these ADATA XPG Gammix D10 modules (AX4U360038G18A-DB10 to be exact, though any AX4U360038G18A would do as it's either Samsung B-die or Micron E-die, see AMD's link). All I All I had to do was enable XMP and has been working like a charm since.

AX4U360038G18A is available and quite cheap on pcpartpicker (but there are multiple other modules that would also work well). Anyway just buy 4x8GB modules and you're good to go. 4 modules might seem odd, but extra ranks actually add performance on Ryzen 3xxx series (see my 3700x with 4x8GB (E-die) vs 2x8 (B-die) in geekbench as a reference).
 
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DrMrLordX

Lifer
Apr 27, 2000
16,494
5,474
136
The Zeus sticks at the Teamgroup website mentions that they have an OC profile. So is that 3200 20-22-22 1.2v only accessed through the OC profile or is that an actual programmed JEDEC setting on the 3200 Zeus modules?
Honestly I would not obsess over JEDEC settings. Aim for a decent 2x16GB Crucial kit, preferably DDR4-3600. Don't enable XMP since it can do odd things, such as affect vSoC, VDDP, and VDDG in undesirable ways. Better to try to emulate the XMP profile by hand or just use Ryzen Memory Calculator. You're building a high-end rig, and it's best to treat it like one. Plus Micron e-die kits from Crucial are pretty cheap.
 

Gideon

Golden Member
Nov 27, 2007
1,028
1,704
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Honestly I would not obsess over JEDEC settings. Aim for a decent 2x16GB Crucial kit, preferably DDR4-3600. Don't enable XMP since it can do odd things, such as affect vSoC, VDDP, and VDDG in undesirable ways. Better to try to emulate the XMP profile by hand or just use Ryzen Memory Calculator. You're building a high-end rig, and it's best to treat it like one. Plus Micron e-die kits from Crucial are pretty cheap.
Crucial has been working very well for me personally with custom timings as well. I especially didn't mention manual timings though, as It's quite a bit of manual labour to enable these, it requires mem-testing for stability and most importantly requires redoing every time you update the BIOS.

From my experience there are a number of (even quite computer savvy people) that simply don't want to deal with this.

I've seen people do it for the first time and not only are they often scared, they usually make mistakes or fail to test stability correctly and end up reverting it.

These are just some mistakes i've had to debug remotely for those who've tried:
  • They insert some input data for the calculator incorrectly - If it's the die type, rank, mobo, it's usually easy to catch, but sometimes just one profile is stable (e.g. V2) and it's not trivial to understand.
  • They insert the calculator data into the BIOS incorrectly - There are a lot of fields after all and depending on the mobo producer, it's not always trivial to find/understand what goes where.
    • For instance MSI has 4 "TRFc" fields or one-for-all, not "TRFc" and "TRFc alt".
    • Some fields have underscores in the names that don't line up with DRAM calc.
    • It is trivial for me and you, but very frightening for someone who tries it for the first time (and rightfully so, playing a monkey with BIOS settings is a quick way to a disaster).
  • They fail to up to test for stability ("oh it boots and runs my game, who needs memtest!") or up the Volts.
    • Later, when the system is mildly unstable (e.g crashing once every couple of days) they attribute it for god knows what else.

From my experience people don't want to be aware of all these intricate details (sub-timings and tertial timings, mem-die types, etc) nor do they wany to waste hours tuning these (and it will definitely take hours if it's your first foray into memory-OC land).

At least the majority of my friends certainly don't want to deal with that. Even the ones working in IT that have had gaming rigs for years. Well unless I do it for them, of course :D

I can also understand their reluctance. Free memtests can take hours to run and quick ones (like karhu) cost. Also some custom timings, even in SAFE preset require 1.39V - 1.40V on E-die. It's a significant increase from the listed 1.35V on the box. Even though it's mostly safe, you can't blame people for being careful. Overall it's a lot of work for small gains, that the memory makers should really do themselves in the first place (by creating a non-sucky OC standard like AMP 2.0). After all, why could't it all "just work"?

All of this leads me bact to my initial point:

TL;DR:
Custom timings are nice and give the best performance by far, but are time consuming and somewhat error prone to set up and validate (unless you have experience).
XMP @ 3600 is stable (99% of time) on memory-kits listed in the mobo compatibility list. It's also quick to set up and gives you most of the benefits (like decent FCLK)
 
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DrMrLordX

Lifer
Apr 27, 2000
16,494
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@Gideon

If the Crucial kits aren't doing stupid things with their XMP 2.0 settings then those are good enough. But I've found that giving myself over to Ryzen Master allows me to reset my mem OC very quickly once I've dialed in one that I like.
 
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Gideon

Golden Member
Nov 27, 2007
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@Gideon

If the Crucial kits aren't doing stupid things with their XMP 2.0 settings then those are good enough. But I've found that giving myself over to Ryzen Master allows me to reset my mem OC very quickly once I've dialed in one that I like.
Yeah, suggesting Ryzen master instead of BIOS tuning is probably a good idea, as it's easier to use and can only be tuned once.

But unfortulately there are some nasty caveats why I can't use it myself for instance. Mainly, it requires virtualization (VBS) to be disabled. This means you can't run WSL2 or Docker with that, which for a lot of web-development work (I do) is essential nowadays.
 
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