Upgrading RAM, Tough decision

[BlueEcho]

ive gone through everything I possibly could regarding overclocking but im continually running into the problem that my processor wont OC past 1980 mhz without randomly rebooting or blue screening... I have the agp/pci lock set @ 66/33mhz and I have the proc running stable at 1989 mhz right now, but if I take it any further up it wont boot. I find that kind of messed up considering all the people I see on here that take their 3000+ venice chips up to 2.2-2.4ghz.

If I buy 2x512 of kingston dual channel, will it run in dual channel if my other 512 sticks are not DC? And does anyone have any clues as to why my system wont break 1980mhz?

 

[BlueEcho]

*bump*

 

[bob4432]

Originally posted by: BlueEcho
ive gone through everything I possibly could regarding overclocking but im continually running into the problem that my processor wont OC past 1980 mhz without randomly rebooting or blue screening... I have the agp/pci lock set @ 66/33mhz and I have the proc running stable at 1989 mhz right now, but if I take it any further up it wont boot. I find that kind of messed up considering all the people I see on here that take their 3000+ venice chips up to 2.2-2.4ghz.

If I buy 2x512 of kingston dual channel, will it run in dual channel if my other 512 sticks are not DC? And does anyone have any clues as to why my system wont break 1980mhz?

you need to make sure the htt is not going over 1000MHz so if you are a 200fsb, it would be a 5x multipliers, so back it down 4. also, set your memory to 166, running the memory out of sync won't hurt performance. knowing you have a venice is a good start.

also, there really is no dual core ram - basically it is just 2 sticks of ram and the memory controller is what makes it a dual channel setup. check your m/b also, but i am sure 4x512 will run dc.

 

[t3h l337 n3wb]

Yeah, if you don't have the HT multie and memory dividers changed, you haven't done everything you possibly could do.

 

[BlueEcho]

Well I dropped the multiplier down to x4, but I was still getting the reboot problem if I exceeded 1980 mhz... I would love to turn the memory down to 166 but I have no idea to do that, all I see is CAS latency options for 3, 2.5, 2 and DRAM Clock @ 200, 266, 333 and 400...
I would love to figure this out and just bypass getting a new proc till I see dual core 939's drop in price

 

[bob4432]

Originally posted by: BlueEcho
Well I dropped the multiplier down to x4, but I was still getting the reboot problem if I exceeded 1980 mhz... I would love to turn the memory down to 166 but I have no idea to do that, all I see is CAS latency options for 3, 2.5, 2 and DRAM Clock @ 200, 266, 333 and 400...
I would love to figure this out and just bypass getting a new proc till I see dual core 939's drop in price

set dram to 333(166) or even 266(133) for now

 

[corsa]

Set DRAM clock @200...that takes RAM out of the equation
CAS leave @3
HT Multi can be set @3x for now, cuase we want to see far we can push your HTT.
Now set CPU Multiplier @9 and your processor core voltage to 1.5v
Time to start raising your HTT (stock setting will be 200)
Raise it 10Mhz (210), save in bios, reboot stable into windows, then restart and raise another 10Mhz (220) again......until it wont boot, or u get blue screen lol Thats when u will know your around your limit, make sure u know how to reset the bios on the MB! ...post us back your finding's

 

[t3h l337 n3wb]

Yeah, you have to know how to use your BIOS and overclock. Read Zebo's guide.

 

[BlueEcho]

Hey guys thanks alot, I have my processor running stable @ 2340 mhz on stock cooling now, its idling @ 25C . I dropped my DRAM mhz to 266 to do it though, will that affect my RAM at all? im just using pc3200 DDR400 value ram.

 

[AlgaeEater]

An old school debate over 1GB vs 2GB ram. I'm getting teary eyed here.

In any case, having more ram won't hurt but it also won't be as noticiable as going from 512 to 1GB, which anyone worth their salt saying they know about computers is a significant gain while using Windows XP. But from 1GB to 2GB, you're hard pressed to dig up numbers and will be searching for situations that the boost was gained.

Windows XP is a memory hog regardless of how much ram you have installed, and programs will randomly fart out on you that it will be eaten up. Just like they do when you get that dreaded 100% CPU usage of doom error. So having additonal ram may save your butt from the fire a time or two, but situational.

Programs don't eat as much ram as you may think necessarily but vital system activities do. If you ever put a print queue of 358 pages of colored images / documents, you'll see your system crawl and moan for mercy as your ram and page filed get filled to the brim. This is the only situation I've seen 2GB over 1GB help (albeit a bit). But like I said, situational. Who's dumb enough to print 358 pages in a queue? I'm that idiot.

I have 2GB of ram. Do I regret it? No, not really. But it definitely didn't wow me at all, hell it didn't even nudge me. It's just kinda there, and it helps sometimes.

The best decision I ever made was going from 7200 RPM hard drive to SATA II Raid 0. But that's another can of worms for another thread.

 

[corsa]

Hey guys thanks alot, I have my processor running stable @ 2340 mhz on stock cooling now, its idling @ 25C . I dropped my DRAM mhz to 266 to do it though, will that affect my RAM at all? im just using pc3200 DDR400 value ram.

Idle dont matter...its your load temp you should be concerned about, keep that under 55C
2340Mhz ....what Voltage are u running? If its stock u may be able to sqeeze out alot more seeing its a Winnie, Load Temp may become an issue though.
I'm guessing your set to 260x9=2340, with RAM @266, its running @167Mhz. You could either tighten the timings (lower them) or try RAM@333, this will give you 212Mhz....but then u may have to loosen (raise) timings, add more Volts, and go 2T just to get stability..... for now I would concentrate on getting highest clock speed, then worry about RAM....its all about trial and error

 

[PianoMan]

Originally posted by: corsa

Hey guys thanks alot, I have my processor running stable @ 2340 mhz on stock cooling now, its idling @ 25C . I dropped my DRAM mhz to 266 to do it though, will that affect my RAM at all? im just using pc3200 DDR400 value ram.

Idle dont matter...its your load temp you should be concerned about, keep that under 55C
2340Mhz ....what Voltage are u running? If its stock u may be able to sqeeze out alot more seeing its a Winnie, Load Temp may become an issue though.
I'm guessing your set to 260x9=2340, with RAM @266, its running @167Mhz. You could either tighten the timings (lower them) or try RAM@333, this will give you 212Mhz....but then u may have to loosen (raise) timings, add more Volts, and go 2T just to get stability..... for now I would concentrate on getting highest clock speed, then worry about RAM....its all about trial and error

Yes, you can probably eke a bit more out of your processor - the RAM timing effect will be there, but I don't think it's as big an influence as CPU clocks (could be wrong).

Curious, Blue - what HSF are you running and what load temps are you at? I'd love to be in the sub-20's in idle... :Q I average 48deg C. idle - but I'm planning on swapping out the clear side panels in this MicroFly with some open air mesh.

PM

 

[BlueEcho]

Well right now im running stable @ 2366 mhz on stock cooling, my idle is 25C and even under heavy loads I never break 35C the only thing is my DRAM is clocked @ 200 mhz (from 400) and im wondering if im gonna see a performance loss from that in multitasking, and whether id benefit from either extra RAM or better RAM.

I have no idea what HSF is

 

[bob4432]

Originally posted by: BlueEcho
Well right now im running stable @ 2366 mhz on stock cooling, my idle is 25C and even under heavy loads I never break 35C the only thing is my DRAM is clocked @ 200 mhz (from 400) and im wondering if im gonna see a performance loss from that in multitasking, and whether id benefit from either extra RAM or better RAM.

I have no idea what HSF is

the difference in the ram will be very small to the point that you will not notice them unless you benchmark and compare - but in the real world you won't see a difference, and again, if you are not exceeding your 1GB of ram, then there will be no difference with going to 2GB.

have you tested the machine with prime95? what are your ambient room temps? what V are you running it at?

 

[PianoMan]

Nice temps. LOL - sorry about that: HSF = "Heat Sink & Fan" on your CPU. I figure you're doing stock, but wondering if it's the heat pipe version (with pipes snaking around it) or not.

If your HTT is around 1000 and your mem freq is "By Spd" or at 200, you're getting 400MHz in speed (dual data rate memory - access twice per clock cycle). If not the case, there should be a way to manually adjust it up higher - though I wouldn't know how you're getting sub-200/400 timings (wonder OC gurus can steer me correct if I'm wrong). Download and run CPUid and see what it tells you.

Extra or better? I know the better RAM will clock faster, but in real world applications, you're not going to see much performance increase. AAT even suggests keeping a good set of DDR memory rather than unnecessarily upping up to DDR2 @533/800 if you can help it. I know it's been a heated debate, but I'd opt for more memory. If you play BF2, I know it likes the extra room. I'm sure Windows likes the extra physical memory, but I don't think it'll be as dramatic as when you're going from 512MB to 1Gig. If you can spare it, go 2x1Gb to avoid the 2T timing penalty, but it's not a show stopper (many have run four sticks w/little or no performance hits).

I'd say opt, since your other choice of upgrading your CPU is almost like water under the bridge as you've pretty much upgraded with your OC.

Barring that, I'd look at upping your vid card, but that's another discussion altogether (not to mention you'd launch a "stay AGP"/"go PCI-e" debate ).

PM

 

[BlueEcho]

Yea I figure upgrading the graphics card is a no go at this point seeing as how im running an AGP board, I don't know of better upgrade options for the agp socket really. I was thinking of replacing my processor with a 3700+ San Diego from newegg, its under $100, im just wondering whether or not I will see the performance boost.

My HSF is all stock, its just a coolermaster fan on it with stock heatsink. I have no idea how to raise my memory mhz without killing my comp. As it stands now I have my comp @ 2250 mhz, 1.5V (Was at 2366 but it kept locking up) and my RAM @ 200mhz, for some reason I cant get my proc past 2400 mhz.

On the issue of Prime95, if im at my default (1836 mhz, 1.4v) then it will run, but if I OC over 2ghz I get this error :

[Mon Sep 18 22:30:53 2006]
FATAL ERROR: Rounding was 0.5, expected less than 0.4
Hardware failure detected, consult stress.txt file.
[Mon Sep 18 23:37:21 2006]
Self-test 1024K passed!
[Mon Sep 18 23:55:58 2006]
Self-test 8K passed!
[Tue Sep 19 00:12:30 2006]
Self-test 10K passed!
[Tue Sep 19 00:27:48 2006]
Self-test 896K passed!
[Tue Sep 19 00:47:00 2006]
Self-test 768K passed!
[Tue Sep 19 00:55:13 2006]
FATAL ERROR: Rounding was 0.5, expected less than 0.4
Hardware failure detected, consult stress.txt file.
[Tue Sep 19 01:43:43 2006]
FATAL ERROR: Rounding was 0.5, expected less than 0.4
Hardware failure detected, consult stress.txt file.
Compare your results to other computers at http://www.mersenne.org/bench.htm
That web page also contains instructions on how your results can be included.

AMD Athlon(tm) 64 Processor 3000+
CPU speed: 2304.43 MHz
CPU features: RDTSC, CMOV, Prefetch, 3DNow!, MMX, SSE, SSE2
L1 cache size: 64 KB
L2 cache size: 512 KB
L1 cache line size: 64 bytes
L2 cache line size: 64 bytes
L1 TLBS: 32
L2 TLBS: 512
Prime95 32-bit version 24.14, RdtscTiming=1
Best time for 512K FFT length: 20.749 ms.
Best time for 640K FFT length: 27.217 ms.
Best time for 768K FFT length: 33.168 ms.
Best time for 896K FFT length: 41.234 ms.
Best time for 1024K FFT length: 44.195 ms.
Best time for 1280K FFT length: 56.413 ms.

Hope that helps,
thanks

 

[corsa]

Do u know what your MAX limits are..
HTT - 280,290, 300?
CPU speed - 2400, 2600 ?
Memory, how far will it go? with 2T and raised timings. 225Mhz, 250Mhz?
Make sure the Hyper Transport bus speed doesnt exeed 1000 Mhz
To find the Max levels of one, u need to back off the others so they do not interfere..
..do u understand all of this? if not, go back to Zebo's guide and find the MAX of each.

 

[BlueEcho]

Right now my max HTT is around 265-268, im running @ a 1T command rate with CPU speed @2385 mhz / 1.525V, HT is 796 mhz, memory on 2-2-5-7 timings @ 132mhz. Anything I could do to tighten things up? Im at my limit in terms of figuring out what I could shave down for more speed, I dont want to lose multitasking ability for pure proc performance either.

Would I be better off just upgrading to a 3700+ san diego 1mb cache? (IE is it worth the $100 upgrade) I just want my system to last for gaming about another year

 

[PianoMan]

Blue,

Don't bother at this point with a 3700+, you can get near to it by squeezing what you can from your Winchester. The San Diego does have a bigger cache, but if you get an equivalent speed from your Winnie, I think you'd be hard pressed to see a difference. Save that $100.

I kick this over to the Proc/OC'ing forum - you can read Zebo's guide to OC'ing the 64 (as corsa alludes to), and there's some serious OC knowledge there.

Maybe you can hold off on a RAM upgrade until you see where your OC efforts wind up?

PM