Upgrading old pc on a budget or..?

[Major Orange]

Hello you helpful people you,

So I am hoping to upgrade my wife's computer. She does like to play games, mostly Guild Wars 2 lately - which it barely runs and other ones like Diablo 3, Fallout 3 and Skyrim a little bit, but the focus is on GW2 mainly and surfing the web mainly for research, IM and watching some films by chance.
She mentioned she would not mind throwing about 300 (U.S.) dollars at it if that would provide a good enough upgrade to get it 'up to date' and able to (more) comfortably run guild wars 2. Not an overclocker most likely. And her (native) resolution is 1680x1050 - maybe in the future bumped up to 1080p

The current set up is pretty uh.. well here it is:

Motherboard: Intel D925XCV - i925X chipset
CPU : Pentium 4 540 Prescott @ 3.2 ghz
RAM : 2 x 1 gb and 2 x 256mb (from another computer) all four DDR2
GPU : Gigabyte AMD Radeon HD 6670 1GB 128 bit DDR3
PSU : Allied AL-350ATX (I mention this because this one worries me and I think should be replaced too unfortunately as it is top mounted in a similarly old, nameless case gotten from a previously pre-built system from a local company)

It recently got a new Spinpoint F3 (HD502HJ) HDD of 500 GB which remains a keeper.

Personally I have been looking into replacing the motherboard and CPU mainly, with an AMD core, possibly the Phenom 965 Deneb on an AM3+ board - such as the Gigabyte GA970 range maybe, just to keep options open for later upgrading (that is something we would like to factor in) with that reason in mind and budget constraints, my preference was leaning towards AMD.

With potentially factoring in a new PSU and possibly a new case for better airflow etc. I'm a little bit stumped in balancing budget. I've been scouring newegg for days and thought it would not hurt to ask the help of other experts!

Thank you for your time spent reading and any possible help or advice.

 

[Cerb]

Definitely replace the PSU. All games in question can take advantage of a CPU and GPU, but also much more RAM. IMO, the best course of action would be PSU, mobo, RAM, and CPU now, then video later. A 6670 will be limiting, but it will also work OK, with low graphics settings. All games in question will benefit from a faster CPU, and run faster with Intel CPUs.

Given AMD's CPUs as of late, don't worry about upgrading it. Get whatever you can now, and assume that whenever that time comes, you'll have to change motherboards, anyway. It has only sometimes worked out trying to plan to upgrade just the CPU, anyway (how many boards got BIOS updates, v. how many didn't, FI; and how many boards were stuck, since they would have needed design changes for the new CPU?).

From $90-150, there are quite a few good video cards, but the bang/buck drops sharply, as cheaper video cards today are mostly there to add displays. Trying to fit a video card, I would need to drop CPU performance down to what would have been good in 2007, and that just didn't sit right, so I went for 8GB RAM, instead. A Geforce GTX 650 or Radeon HD 7750 would both make great video card upgrades, right now, and they start around $80, including MIRs.

Update of 1st parts set, no longer preferred:
CPU: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16819116782
Mobo+RAM: http://www.newegg.com/Product/ComboD...=Combo.1299776
PSU: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16817139026
Do the rebate for the PSU, and you'll be right around budget, depending on exact shipping.

The PSU has a MIR, and promo code. Use the promo code, and save the MIR form, before checking out, then do the MIR, to make it an approximate net cost of $25.

Edit and new preference: If you want to do a video card upgrade, too, you an go with a somewhat slower CPU from AMD, like so:
CPU: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16819113287
CPU alternate, maybe over-budget even after promos and MIRs: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16819113327
Motherboard and RAM: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813138373
Video card: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814131481
PSU: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16817139026

Use the same PSU, and do the promo and MIR. The video card also has an MIR. The 6-core CPU has a promo code for -$10. While Intel's are better, the FX are going to be better than i3s, and if Tom's review is to be believed, better than a K8, for GW2, and not by an insignificant margin.

I'm leaning towards the AMD parts, at this point, since the cheap RAM sticks with good combos just went up in price. I probably would have discounted the Intel setup prior to posting it, had I done so after that event, TBH.

Edit 1: prices changed (due to passing midnight in California, maybe?), while reviewing my edit, where I mixed up two combos (i5-3330 v. 3350P), so, um...yeah, I'll get to CPU and RAM, again.
Edit 2: went to 4GB RAM, unable to find another suitable 8GB combo.
Edit 3: did not like that one bit, so tried AMD. AMD it is.

TL;DR: Newegg's prices changed, not downwards, and I prefer not revising to history, so it's a long post, OK?

 

[xgsound]

Generally the video card determines game play rate but your current cpu has a cpu benchmark of 390. That has to be very limiting as is the ddr2 memory and IDE disk.

Here is a $350 tower that comes with an a4320 (cpu score 1766) and has a slot for your current (or a newer) video card. http://www.staples.com/HP-Pavilion-p...product_989663 It comes with 4 GB of ddr3 and a 500 GB sata disk. This is not current state of the art either, but gives you a decent reference to beat. The intel cpus are almost double the score if the prices work out for you.

EDIT: this comes with win8 ... see if your programs and video card work with it.

Jim

 

[Major Orange]

Cerb, thank you for your input, I really appreciate the amount of research you did and you raise good points. I had been leaning towards the new AMD FX range and was/am doubting between the quad or hexa core range. I figure for the 30 dollars extra I might as well get the 6350 Vishera. - I'm planning to build myself a new computer from the ground up on a bigger budget too and was interested in that one as well.

Somehow I had a suspicion or rather prejudgement against Biostar, but after some research they turn out to not be bad boards at all - it's why I had initially dismissed the ram + mb combo save for the possible MSI options.

So the overall consensus is that I should look into replacing the GPU after all too? According to some benchmarks I ran the gpu should be fine for Gw2, but maybe it is the bare minimum or the ram that's killing it. Slight bit of a bummer as we got that last year - though it wasn't that expensive and I could probably use it to bump up my father-in-law's computer that I build too so it wouldn't go to waste.

I forgot to mention that we would indeed also get some new ram. I was thinking of a pair of G.skills up to 4 gigs at first.

Xgsound, that was the same conclusion to an extent that I reached as well, though I presumed the gpu to be sufficient enough with a better CPU (and thus a new motherboard and ram). Although I would rather not go with a pre-built OEM, nor the Windows 8 coming along with it too.. those specs aren't bad at all and not too far out of the price range either. So thank you for tracking that one down too. It's a nice alternative back-up to keep on hand if these part prices keep fluctuating / going up as they do currently.

Unfortunately the PSU mentioned by Cerb is out of stock. Would it be worth it signing up for auto-notify or should I keep browsing for a different one (in the same wattage range btw? I'm bad at estimating required watts for builds).

Once again thank you for the input and time spent.

Edit: Just as an addendum question; glancing over Newegg currently, they have interesting / too good to be true looking deals going such as http://www.newegg.com/Store/ComboDea...-3-Items-Combo and other memorial week related deals that I wonder if they're worth considering.

 

[Termie]

If you look around, you may find that power supply or other Corsair power supplies for around the same price. TigerDirect has some hot deals right now, including the 500W version for $30AR: http://www.tigerdirect.com/applicati...582&CatId=1079

I agree with the FX-6350, and given that it's a rather power-hungry CPU, getting the 500W power supply probably isn't a bad idea - gives you plenty of breathing room.

With CPU, motherboard, PSU, and 4GB of RAM, you're already at nearly $300, so there's no room in your budget for a video card. If you want to raise your budget, let us know how high you're willing to go, and we can suggest a video card to you, but my hunch is that it's probably worth just trying the CPU/MB/RAM/PSU first.

By the way, what case are you using, and do you have Windows 7 already? You will want at least Win7 to get the system up to date.

 

[Cerb]

So the overall consensus is that I should look into replacing the GPU after all too? According to some benchmarks I ran the gpu should be fine for Gw2, but maybe it is the bare minimum or the ram that's killing it. Slight bit of a bummer as we got that last year - though it wasn't that expensive and I could probably use it to bump up my father-in-law's computer that I build too so it wouldn't go to waste.

It's a low-end card, and pushing all those pixels is going to be hard on it. It will work OK, but even on low graphics settings, a HD 7750 could be as much as 100% faster (all the reviews I could find quickly that compared both GPUs compared the DDR5 version, which is faster, and still show that one to be 25-50% slower, even on low settings). Guild Wars 2 and Skyrim can't be scaled down too far, so as not to make the 6670 DDR3 a bottleneck. TBH, it would have been better to have gotten something faster at the time, such as a HD 7750 for $110, instead. Anything under a x7xx in AMD GPUs, and x5x in nVidia's GPUs, is more of a feature card. Not to be harsh, but the 6670 DDR3 was going a little too cheap, as a gaming video card to hold on to for awhile.

You can get a better CPU+mobo+RAM now, and wait on the card. That would allow for a full-size 970 board (2x4GB combo) and a FX-6350, for instance, with dual-channel RAM. Just know that that the video card should be an upgrade in the offing, if you do that. It's worth considering, much like my first Intel attempt (before that went up by $20+), since it is a better CPU, and in the case of AMD, you'll get a good bit from having dual-channel RAM.

Unfortunately the PSU mentioned by Cerb is out of stock. Would it be worth it signing up for auto-notify or should I keep browsing for a different one (in the same wattage range btw? I'm bad at estimating required watts for builds).

Try to wait for it. It's a good power supply for the money without the sales, but they're been pushing it with promos and rebates a lot. Your Allied might be OK, but I wouldn't try to use it for too long at near 200W under load. I'd not worry for an office PC with IGP, but a 95-125W CPU and 50-70W GPU, which can lead to fast changes from full load to low load, I don't know. I've had too many weird problems in such machines fixed by a better PSU, and that one should be $30 or less even after it gets back in stock. Just make sure to pounce on it when it does, don't forget to apply any promo code, and save the rebate for right then and there.

Edit: Just as an addendum question; glancing over Newegg currently, they have interesting / too good to be true looking deals going such as http://www.newegg.com/Store/ComboDea...-3-Items-Combo and other memorial week related deals that I wonder if they're worth considering.

They are absolutely worth considering. The biggest thing to watch for with the deals is subpar parts. They will often include parts that are substantially worse in quality, performance, or features, because they need to get rid of that inventory. FI, it's often cheaper to buy separately than save $40, when it's an expensive overclocking motherboard, a last-gen AMD CPU (such as the hotter and slow FX-x1x0 chips), and over-priced RAM.

Another option, to keep it longer, by including USB 3.0 native:
A85 mobo+RAM
A10-5800K (iGPU being wasted, in this case)
Same HD 7750

That ends up around $330 AR, basically to get you USB 3.0 and SATA 6Gbps native. While it costs more, the smaller (760) board would be left with no PCIe, if you needed to add anything more than the video card. Going with an FX and a 970 board, I couldn't get near to the same costs, simply due to the cost of adding RAM.

 

[Major Orange]

Wow, thank you so much once again!

So I must say that I am still leaning towards maybe getting the more recent FX series since that will require a more modern(ish) board that will make for a good computer that will last a couple of years before requiring further upgrades (sans the GPU which will have to be done sooner)

Going with your suggestions (which I love by the way) I've pieced together this as an idea:

Mobo: Gigabyte GA-970-DS3 AM3+ (with 6gbps SATA and USB 3.0)
RAM: Kingston HyperX Black Series 2x4GB - 8GB DDR3 1600Mhz

As from this earlier mentioned combo (thank you Cerb!)
for $134 and approx $120 after MIR (unless I read that wrong)

CPU: AMD FX 6350 Vishera six core 3.9 Ghz AM3+ 125W - $140

PSU: Corsair CX430 or Corsair CX500 V2 for both, $50 and $30 after MIR. (Kudos to Termie for finding that)
They both end up at the same money, they're both the CX series (which I thought people were iffy about but maybe only on the high-end) one is more wattage than the other. Should I go with the 500 just to have more wattage in case of later upgrades or wait for the 430 as it will suffice or other reasons?

Tallying up to $290 after MIR.

Now, just throwing this out there. Am I crazy for wanting to stick / go with the AMD FX series here vs. the A10-5800K it's practically the same money is why it makes me think 'Why not go with the newer stuff'.

I like that last suggestion of parts too though, no matter the 30 dollars over budget as it seems a more completer package. The only concern there is upgrade abilities, though I wonder if that'd even be needed as it wouldn't be -such- a heavy gaming machine depending on a new fallout (which the wife's a big fan of) or some MMO like the Elder scrolls which I don't foresee having high specs but I digress!

My only other questions here are about the PCI express 3.0 vs 2.0 x16 lanes as I noticed the GPU suggested is for the former but both my boards of choice here (the AM3+ or the FM2) have the latter.

 

[Sleepingforest]

The difference between PCIe 2.0 and 3.0 is slim to none for a single GPU. You should definitely go with the larger PSU (the 6350 can consume a fair amount of power).

 

[Cerb]

Now, just throwing this out there. Am I crazy for wanting to stick / go with the AMD FX series here vs. the A10-5800K it's practically the same money is why it makes me think 'Why not go with the newer stuff'.

The only practical thing you get with an A-series is native USB 3.0 (the GA-970A uses an add-on chip for it, I think). The rest is good enough as-is. PCIe 2.0 v. 3.0, FI, won't make a difference. The A-series' IGP will be wasted (it's only cheaper overall due to the free RAM stick), and you can't get a 6-core. A 6-core is kind of a waste for your specific games, today, but if you plan to keep it until it can hardly play your games, it's not a bad idea. While few games get much out of >4 threads, today, the trend is to use more. It's also only negligibly slower in clock speed, v. the FX-4300, at stock speeds, so should be a better long-term buy.

I like that last suggestion of parts too though, no matter the 30 dollars over budget as it seems a more completer package. The only concern there is upgrade abilities, though I wonder if that'd even be needed as it wouldn't be -such- a heavy gaming machine depending on a new fallout (which the wife's a big fan of) or some MMO like the Elder scrolls which I don't foresee having high specs but I digress!

They don't have high requirements, really, you just have an old low-end PC (depending on how long ago you got it, it might not have been low-end when new). If you don't have something else in your house much more modern already, this CPU+RAM upgrade will be rather eye-opening, by itself.

I mean, I was running with double the RAM and a 2-5x faster CPU, 5 years ago (still am, actually, just with 4x the RAM, now 🙂).

P.S. Here's some CPU comparisons:
3.6GHz P4 v. A8-5600 (slightly slower than the A10-5800)
3.6GHz P4 v. FX=6300 (slightly slower than the FX-6350)
There aren't matching games, and some programs won't get more than maybe a 200% improvement, but either one will be a world of difference, compared to that P4, and are more than capable of playing any games likely to come out in the next few years, except maybe Crysis 4.

 

[mfenn]

Question: are your drives IDE or SATA? On a Prescott-era I would think that the HDD is SATA but the optical drive is IDE. I ask because new boards do not have IDE and it would be a nasty surprise to find out that you also need new drive(s).

 

[Cerb]

Question: are your drives IDE or SATA? On a Prescott-era I would think that the HDD is SATA but the optical drive is IDE. I ask because new boards do not have IDE and it would be a nasty surprise to find out that you also need new drive(s).

Good point. If that's an issue, and you haven't ordered anything, several AMD CPUs have combos that make some of the popular DVD burners <=$10, including with the FX-4350 and FX-6350.

 

[Major Orange]

Very good call guys!

Totally missed on that part. Its main HDD, which I replaced is a SATA, but the optical drive is IDE as well as two older HDD's which weren't connected, but are also IDE.

Have not ordered anything yet, but I think today or tomorrow I will have the trigger pulled. My gut wants to go with the GA-970A-DS3 and the FX-6350 setup. Only concern after some research is whether or not it will work to some degree off the bat or if I can flash the bios immediately before installing / so the CPU will work or how I should handle that.

p.s. That setup would come in at about $290 and the usual optical drive is that LG one right? That won't break the bank.

 

[Torn Mind]

I would not be surpised if the CPU is choking everything. I have an even older 3.2 Ghz Prescott with no video card, DDR1 RAM and on a Socket 478 motherboard. It is barely passable for light office work, much less anything more demanding, especially with crappy mobo graphics.

 

[Torn Mind]

p.s. That setup would come in at about $290 and the usual optical drive is that LG one right? That won't break the bank.

Might want to consider an external or a USB adapter that can convert IDE drives to USB. USB 2.0 is slower than hooking it up directly to a SATA port though.

 

[Major Orange]

It's worth considering no doubt.
Though it's not something important or absolutely necessary. I was originally thinking of putting the old board into this old case and hooking it up with all the old previous stuff lying around, i.e. those pata drives and some old graphics card and that could serve as a very light back up computer and or testing grounds.

Edit:

Pulled the trigger on it!

Mobo: GA-970A-DS3
CPU: AMD FX-6350
RAM: Kingston 8GB DDR3 1600 mhz
PSU: Corsair CX-500W

Then we will see how the configuration holds up with the current 6670, being not that enormously big into gaming save from the aforementioned titles and can always upgrade later.

As a final note, Newegg has a special deal for new customers, 20 dollars off on all orders that total up to 249 dollars. So that worked out great! Mobo+Ram deal went up by 2, bought two extra sata cables for backup that were on sale and 5 dollars shipping still put me at 280 dollars total after rebates!

Once again I would really like to thank Cerb for the wealth of information provided as well as Termie for coming up with that great deal from Tigerdirect I went with, also Mfenn for pointing out a what could have been annoying oversight! And finally all others that weighed in with helpful tips or advice.

Which reminds me, I'll post this in the hot deals too but:

The good ol' LG Optical Drive GH24NS95 Dvd/Cd RW now from 18 to 15 dollars with free shipping with promo code EMCXRVT99 good until the 29th of May

Thank you guys for being the best welcome to these forums one could wish for!

 

[mfenn]

Looks good, let us know how the build goes! 🙂

 

[Major Orange]

Just bumping this thread up to note that this new build is up and running great. Only concern was the CPU stock cooler needing a better one, but it turns out its temperatures run nowhere near worrisome levels! Once more I would like to thank everyone for their advice and suggestions.

Turns out indeed that this build with the old HD 6670 is holding up just fine for the needs as of right now - Guild Wars 2 runs like a train now with better looks so the wife's absolutely happy (and playing every possible moment now xD).

I have been keeping my eye on what the gpu's are doing / going to do this month or coming times. Though it is not of any urgency, I do feel that slapping in a newer gpu would make this pc entirely feasible and up to date for many more years to come. I would only ask what people's ideas/suggestions would be on that front. The 7870s are starting to drop, though I also saw a 7950 that was okayish. Which'd be more preferable? / Or any alternatives perhaps or Nvidia's? We can be really patient on this front currently though, as a note.

 

[mfenn]

Glad to hear that it went well!

The 7950 is certainly faster than the 7870. However, I'd take a 7870 at the ~$220 sale price over a 7950 at the ~$270 sale price in your situation. GTX 660's are a little slower, but they can occasionally be had for $170.

 

[RaistlinZ]

Just bumping this thread up to note that this new build is up and running great. Only concern was the CPU stock cooler needing a better one, but it turns out its temperatures run nowhere near worrisome levels! Once more I would like to thank everyone for their advice and suggestions.

Turns out indeed that this build with the old HD 6670 is holding up just fine for the needs as of right now - Guild Wars 2 runs like a train now with better looks so the wife's absolutely happy (and playing every possible moment now xD).

I have been keeping my eye on what the gpu's are doing / going to do this month or coming times. Though it is not of any urgency, I do feel that slapping in a newer gpu would make this pc entirely feasible and up to date for many more years to come. I would only ask what people's ideas/suggestions would be on that front. The 7870s are starting to drop, though I also saw a 7950 that was okayish. Which'd be more preferable? / Or any alternatives perhaps or Nvidia's? We can be really patient on this front currently though, as a note.

Heck, even a 7850 would be a massive upgrade.