Upgrading my wifes PC for Christmas... help (a little long)

[SadisticOne]

As part of a gift for my wife this christmas, I want to upgrade her system, since she spends quite a lot of time on it.

The system specs right now are

MSI KT3 Ultra 2 Deluxe
Athlon XP 1.4 Ghz (1800+ IIRC)
512Meg Crucial DDR XMS 3200
Gainward Geforce4 4200Ti AGP
PC Power & Cooling, Inc. Silencer (rev 1.5) 400ATX (+5V 40A,+12V 25A)
Creative Audigy
CMD 649 RAID PCI with 2x WD 800JB (or BB's maybe) IDE
Pioneer DVDROM slotloader
TDK 4x SL DVD+R burner
with a Sony F500R monitor

She used to game some, although has done less so lately. Primary apps are Office, Remote Desktop into work, Firefox, Emule and general media playback. System stability is a priority for her, hence the RAID1 set, and the Ghost backups to DVDR. She would, however, like a bit more capacity. The system doesn't seem quite as responsive as it did, and I'd like it to be effectively instant again. (and yes I have defragged.)

We had a little spate of power supply instability and failures (involving a top of the line Enermax and Antec PSU,) and now I have a policy of buying PC Power and Cooling PSU's only (they really are the best.) We don't bother overclocking, although I might consider it for a game, if it was really necessary and stable.

We have a few other systems (2 the same as the above, with different HD configurations, and (my) P4 2.8C, with a gig of DDR, on an Abit IS7,) and grandfathering components is basically a necessity, since it can be expensive to keep 4 systems (and 2 servers) up to date, within reason, otherwise.

My budget to upgrade the system is $400-$600.. maybe $800 at a real push.

I've been looking at the current recommendations for low-mid end systems and everyone seems to recommend AMD Athlon64's as the best game in town.

I don't want to invest in a dead end processor or motherboard, so I'm thinking of a socket 939 processor. The 90 nm Athlon64 3500+ looks to be a fairly decent choice right now.

There are 3 basic choices for motherboard platform... nforce4, nforce3 and via 939 solutions like the Abit AV8 and Asus A8V.

If I went with the Nforce4, I'd be forced into upgrading the graphics card to a PCIExpress model, and the PSU too, from what I've read. My choices for PSU would essentially be between the Silencer 470 ATX ( +12V @ 26A - $99), and the Turbo-Cool 510 Express ( +12V @ 34A - $229.)

That said, I don't know for a fact that my current PSU has the capacity to run the Athlon64 on the via 939's or nforce3 939's either.

If it can, then the AV8 or A8V would seem to make sense to me: I can orphan down that motherboard and processor to another system and reuse DDR and graphics cards in them, at a later date.

So... if you were in my situation, would you go with a nforce3 or VIA solution, now... rather than waiting for the dubious benefit of a Nforce4 mobo? Does anyone know if my current PSU is sufficient for the Athlon64 3500+, and considering I'd like the option of putting in a 6600GT AGP, and running a RAID set.

Speaking of RAID sets, hard drives are another consideration, especially important since they are typically the biggest bottleneck outside of gaming.

Raptors would be nice, but they are small, and don't fit very well into the budget, when you need 2 of them plus other drives for more capacity.

If I don't go with Raptors, then I'm probably going to go with Seagate SATA drives, for their combination of reliabilty, warranty and performance.

Does anyone have any experience comparing Raptors and Segate SATA's in a mirror on on-board RAID sets? What was your subjective opinion on the differential in workstation usage?

Thanks for the assistance.

 

[Hajime]

Considering your current setup, a 754 setup may actually be better.

In all honesty, how often do you upgrade a proc without upgrading a mobo in your current setup? Since you have varied architectures - similar to my own - doesn't upgrading normally result in upgrading both the proc and the mobo due to not being able to efficiently "farm out" old procs due to differing architectures? You yourself even noted that you orphan down the mobo/proc both. In that situation, 754 is actually a better choice then 939 imo.

If so, an excellent idea might be:
Chaintech VNF3-250 - ~$75
Alternatively, for mobo: DFI Lanparty UT 250gb - ~$100 (Newegg was having a sale last time I checked. This also can run RAID-10, which you might want to consider. It would offer significantly more benefits on a workstation then upgrading past a 3200+.)
Athlon 64 2800 to 3200+ - $127 to $190 (For workstation use, upgrading past the 3200+ isn't really worth it. I've OC'd my 3200+ to 2.5ghz before, and it wasn't worth the extra cash I would have spent for a workstation.)

I'd fully recommend going a Seagate SATA RAID-1 over Raptors for her use. As mentioned before, you may want to consider a RAID-10 as well.

The PSU is plenty for her needs.

The only thing I'd recommend upgrading other then that is possibly the video card - and the PSU is still plenty for her needs short of SLI'ing GF 6800 Ultras.

The only issue is whether or not you have SATA-capable power on that PSU. If not, you may want to grab some molex->SATA converters.

As for RAIDing Seagate's on the DFI Lanparty, it's a dream. If you are familiar with tuning a RAID array, you can get some pretty hefty performance out of them on the Lanparty. I've managed to tweak my RAID-1 Seagates into giving a Raptor a run for it's money - it beats them untill they pass the 20gb mark, then they slowly hand the Raptor it's ass after that (As they get closer to the edge of the platter, they perform better and better relative to the Raptors due to drive density and whatnot. I'll post HDtach benchmarks if someone wants a peak of even non-tuned Seagates vs Raptors.)

Overall, I'd stress probably a A64 3000+ - $150, the DFI Lanparty - $100, and a RAID-10 of Seagates ($60-$130x4), -unless- you desperately need a video card upgrade for her. For a workstation, a RAID-10 is probably the absolute best bet due to HD performance.

 

[Rhin0]

That $230 dollar PSU is so overkill. Save your money and get a Zalman or something for 1/3 of that if you really think you need to upgrade.

Really no reason to jump to PCI-E if you don't absolutely want to either.



IMO, the Via K8T800 chipsets is bashed for no good reason. It is just as fast as the nForce3 if not faster is some cases, same with the Nforce4. neither of those impressed me. I think the K8T is a solid chipset. I'd get the Abit AV8 or ASUS A8V.

The 754 solution makes sense too since it would be quite a bit cheaper but if you are ready to drop 230 bucks on a PSU then I don't think price is really relevant. Actually I just reread you have about $800. 754 is probably the way to go. Take a look at Abit's offering for the s754 CPU's. We build a A64 system with one of the first 64 bit AMD chips to come out and the Abit 754 board and that thing is smoking fast. Slap a AGP 6800GT in there and it would be great...


good luck!

 

[Hajime]

Rhin0: Why a 6800GT on a Workstation-class PC?

I could see possibly swinging for a decent price on a 6800NU ($250 - max) or a 6600GT, but a 6800GT? Especially when it could consume half - or significantly more - of his budget (He did say $400-$600 was the planned amount)

As for the chipsets you have mentioned, they'd make okay workstation PC's, but they are missing a few features that I'd demand for a workstation PC.....

 

[Rhin0]

Originally posted by: Hajime
Rhin0: Why a 6800GT on a Workstation-class PC?

I could see possibly swinging for a decent price on a 6800NU ($250 - max) or a 6600GT, but a 6800GT?

As for the chipsets you have mentioned, they'd make okay workstation PC's, but they are missing a few features that I'd demand for a workstation PC.....

I apologize, bad recommendation. I am guilty of skimming and I saw she games some. But yeah you are correct. sorry! What are the workstation features you would like to see on those boards? I guess i'm really not qualified to give a workstation recommendation so maybe I should retract what I said. I just wanted to share my s754 experience, they are fast...

You are correct though the 6800NU would be a good buy. Might not even need that really at all... You could even but down to like a Ti4600 or older gen of card, again depends on if she wants to play certain types of games but looks like she is definately more business orientated on that machine.


EDIT -The features you wanted... I guess the less than great raid support on the boards I recommended. GOod point... raid sounds important to them

 

[Hajime]

Rhin0: As I mentioned earlier, I consider RAID-10 critical on a workstation PC. A quick google couldn't find any mention of RAID-10 on either motherboard. The biggest problem on consumer-grade workstations is the hd.

And I agree entirely on a S754 for a workstation, btw. As the OP said, he orphan's mobos+cpus - it's doubtful he will upgrade the CPU by itself without buying a mobo.

Now, the 6800NU or a 6600GT AGP would be the only vid cards I'd remotely consider upgrading to. As the OP's wife has a Ti4200, either the OP could OC it a bit, or just upgrade it outright. Either way, it's not worth the cash to get anything less then a 6600GT or a 6800NU currently. Considering that he wants it for a workstation, nVidia is going to likely be required due to driver support - I've tried to deal with ATi cards with a 50-PC workstation lab, but never again.

The biggest bottleneck is CPU and HD. Upgrading to a 3000+ or 3200+ would solve the majority of cpu-side problems, while a RAID-10 (Or a tuned RAID-1) of Seagates would solve the other workstation issue. Anything else past that point, imo, is gravy. A RAID-1 of Raptor's isn't worth the cash - the OP could get a RAID-10 of Seagates, which would offer equivalent performance likely once tuned and significantly more space at a lesser to equivalant price point.

As he has a PCPC 400w (I believe), it's not really worth upgrading that either. As he has 512mb DDR, he probably should upgrade her to 1gb, but that'd be even more important then the vid card.

In order of importance for a workstation that the OP spoke of, in my experience:

#1: CPU/HD
#2: Ram
#3: Video card


Vid card wouldn't even be there if it wasn't for the gaming, really. Except for 2d Image Quality, video cards don't do a lot for the workstation PC.

And another thing the OP may want to consider: Dual Monitors. I cannot begin to express -how- much dual monitors improved my productivity. I can't recommend them highly enough.