upgrading my 5yrs old PC & need advices

[Game-addict]

hi guys, am new here & I wish I get some help regarding upgrading my 5yrs old desktop. This 5yrs old PC got:
Gigabyte P35 DS3L, Intel core2 duo E6750 (4M Cache,2.66Ghz,1333MhzFSB), Corsair TX850w PSU, 1 eVGA 9800 GTX+ GPU, Corsair Dominator TWIN2X4096-8500C5 DDR2-1066 (Dominator-8500C5*4GB*SLI), 320Gb WD HDD....etc.
Anyway, I was looking around for a great gaming rig, & found too may options that froze my brain. Just to let u all know, am willing to keep my eVGA 9800GTX+ card, my PSU & HDD; so my concerns are narrowed down to a decent motherboard, RAM & CPU.
There are too much differences between mobos & RAMs; picking up a decent CPU was a piece of cake for me . Through my research I was hit by the z77 motherboard series, to cut the chit-chat here are some links to what I found & I need u to help me to pick one. P.S. my budget is not that open, may be 600$ max.
CPU:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16819115233

Mobos:
1- http://www.gigabyte.com/products/product-page.aspx?pid=4153#ov
2- http://www.gigabyte.com/products/product-page.aspx?pid=4167#ov
Honestly I don't know what's the difference between these 2 speaking of gaming performance, Other z77 models are expensive Like the Gigabyte Sniper 3 motherboard.
3- http://www.asus.com/Motherboards/Intel_Socket_1155/P8Z77V/#specifications
4- http://www.asus.com/Motherboards/Intel_Socket_1155/P8Z77V_PRO/#specifications
Regarding ASUS mobos there is one difference between these 2, the P8Z77V_PRO got 16 Phase Power Design (12 -phase for CPU, 4 -phase for iGPU) while the P8Z77V got only 12 Phase Power Design (8 -phase for CPU, 4 -phase for iGPU) !!!! Other ASUS models like MAXIMUS V GENE or P8Z77 Deluxe are expensive, besides I need a MB with a PCI slot for my Satellite card

RAM:
1- http://www.ebay.com/itm/Corsair-Ven...1550048?pt=US_Memory_RAM_&hash=item4abef8b460
2- http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...&SID=u00000687
Am a bit confused about Latency, speed & Voltage, but I think picking a low voltage, low latency & a faster RAM will be the best choice for me, right?

At the end I need help to pick the parts needed to build a fast PC that can handle games @ Ultra graphic settings like Need for Speed Most wanted 2012, Battlefield 3, The Elder Scrolls V:Skyrim, Prototype2, Call of duty black Ops2, medal of honor War fighter, Diablo III & the best of all game Assassin's Creed III.

ty all for the help, sorry for the longest thread ever lol

 

[DSF]

Let's back up a step.

If you want to play new games at the highest graphics settings your 9800GTX+ isn't going to cut it. It's several generations old at this point and would be holding any new CPU back.

Even still, a competent new CPU, MB, RAM and GPU should be doable on a $600 budget without a problem. You may not get 100% Ultra settings in every game, but you should have a satisfactory gaming experience in new games.

 

[Ketchup]

Memory latency will make little to no difference in overall speed, just like I new CPU won't make much difference in gaming (with the same video card), just like normal computer usage won't get much faster with the same hard drive.

Not trying to discourage you from your purchase, but if you want a computer for gaming, get a better video card.

 

[Game-addict]

Thanks for the reply
Well I know my GPU is older than my grandmother lol, am welling to change it in the very near future, am considering Geforce GTX 580 ATM at best coz am tight to my budget a lil, my concerns ATM are getting my MB, RAM & CPU first then will put a new GPU! coz if am done with these 3 getting a GPU will be much easier

 

[riversend]

Sorry I am writing this from my phone, so no links. You can do this process in steps as long as you are fully aware of the limitations of your GPU.

What is your gaming resolution? Where are you buying parts? How soon and what kind of budget when you do purchase the GPU.

With a $600 budget you can get an i5 3570k, z77, 8gb RAM, and a 7850/660/7870 easily.

 

[Game-addict]

well riversend, I live in Jordan & buying these stuff from our market is pretty expensive & not all parts can be found, so am going for eBay to buy the stuff I need coz it will be much easier to get & even cheaper.
For my gaming resolution am using my 32' Sony LCD TV Screen @ 1920*1080 coz my monitor broke, but planning to get a 21' LCD/LED minimum. As for GPU, GTX580 will fit my needs I guess, my budget for that matter would be~ 250$, but if more money comes a 660 is in my mind.
As you can't see my links, here is what am buying for sure: a Core i5 3750 Ivy bridge 3.4Ghz LGA 1155
My concerns are about the motherboard & the RAM. Regarding mobos am pretty confused about the make & the model, my 4 listed links regarding these mobos are for: Gigabyte GA-Z77X-UD3H, Gigabyte GA-Z77X-UD5H, ASUS P8Z77 V & ASUS P8Z77 V Pro. Am really confused here & u can go back to my first post to find my point of confusion.
Regarding RAM, am confused between:
1- Corsair Vengeance 8GB (2x4GB) DDR3-2133 Memory Kit CMZ8GX3M2X2133C9R, CL9 running @ 1.5volts
2- G.SKILL Ares Series 8GB (2 x 4GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1866 (PC3 14900), CL9 running @ 1.5volts.

If you guys know other options, makes & models plz let me know coz am not that familiar with hardware like I used to be 5 yrs ago, computers are like a hobby for me but got very busy lately...
please speak freely in a budget range of 6-800$,
thank you all.

 

[riversend]

Do you have links to any sites you would be buying from in Jordan? Do you purchase computer parts from sites out of country (UAE for instance). That can help figure out the price to performance.

For what it looks like you want to do (gaming) you want to get the least expensive mobo for what you want to do. The motherboard has no real impact on gaming unless it is broken or not functioning correctly. If it is spec'd for the CPU you want then you are gtg. Buying a more expensive mobo is not getting you extra gaming performance. Z77 gets you overclocking and many boards support Crossfire/SLI, but your budget and resolution have no business trying dual GPU.

If you are comfortable with overclocking then you will want the Z77. If not then an H77 or B75 chipset should be fine. If you want to overclock then an aftermarket cooler would be good to add (generally $30-50 U.S.)

For RAM, anything at 1333 or 1600 will be fine as long as it is 1.5v. No need to pay more for the 2133, the performance gains are minimal. 8GB is enough, no need to go to 16GB.

That should help you narrow your choices, again, a link to a website would be helpful.

 

[Game-addict]

Do you have links to any sites you would be buying from in Jordan? Do you purchase computer parts from sites out of country (UAE for instance). That can help figure out the price to performance.

For what it looks like you want to do (gaming) you want to get the least expensive mobo for what you want to do. The motherboard has no real impact on gaming unless it is broken or not functioning correctly. If it is spec'd for the CPU you want then you are gtg. Buying a more expensive mobo is not getting you extra gaming performance. Z77 gets you overclocking and many boards support Crossfire/SLI, but your budget and resolution have no business trying dual GPU.

If you are comfortable with overclocking then you will want the Z77. If not then an H77 or B75 chipset should be fine. If you want to overclock then an aftermarket cooler would be good to add (generally $30-50 U.S.)

For RAM, anything at 1333 or 1600 will be fine as long as it is 1.5v. No need to pay more for the 2133, the performance gains are minimal. 8GB is enough, no need to go to 16GB.

That should help you narrow your choices, again, a link to a website would be helpful.

hi again, well here is what I do when buying stuff from outside my country, I look for the parts mostly on eBay.com & when I find the one I need I simply hit the "add a bid/buy it now" button & viola.. mostly I look for items shipped worldwide & this is how I get them by mail/fed-ex...etc. Payment methods are no big deal to me, either using Visa or PayPal. This is how I buy not just only computer parts.. I got some nice accessories for my car this way. My Corsair PSU was purchased from eBay with a price ~ 128$ in times where this PSU worth more than 250$ in my country due to taxes, customs & greedy sellers!!!
for example these are 2 links to 2 of the parts Ii've been looking for:
1- http://www.ebay.com/itm/Corsair-Ven...1550048?pt=US_Memory_RAM_&hash=item4abef8b460
2- http://www.ebay.com/itm/Asus-P8Z77-...509241606?pt=Motherboards&hash=item484bcb0506

To tell you the truth, am new to overclocking, tried overclocking my Core 2 Duo E6750 & it worked just fine getting ~ 3.6-3.9Ghz as I remember. I was afraid at the beginning thinking this might damage my CPU but after a deep readings I decided to go for it using Gigabyte overclocking software designed for my P35 motherboard. I managed to play AC brotherhood & Revelations on my current 5yrs old setup & had no problem at all but the breaking point was when I tried to play Battlefield 3 & Need for speed the RUN, my current setup was able to run these 2 on medium graphics only.

What I understood from ur response is mobos are not of a great impact on gaming performance, unless if am willing to over clock my CPU which is something am not that expert in doing so because of my fears to burn the CPU or the MB. But I have questions regarding 2 things here: is overclocking safe?? do you recommend it? & does it affect my CPU lifetime? Second thing I need to know, which is better ASUS or Gigabyte regarding durability, power saving/consumption, heating..etc The prices of GB & ASUS mobos are very close if u compare 2 mobos of almost similar specs, so that wouldn't be an issue. Some mobos got some nice heat-sinks, others don't <--- is this something I need to consider?

Regarding RAM, I guess I'll go for 1600 as u recommend coz I saw a benchmark somewhere saying there is not much difference between 2133/1800/1600, the difference is nothing more than 2% which will pass unnoticed & like u said no need for more than 8Gbs RAM<-- waste of money

Am sorry for my too many questions mate, plz bare with me coz am a noob in this field & trying to learn & enjoy this hobby of mine.

Thank you so much

 

[VirtualLarry]

But I have questions regarding 2 things here: is overclocking safe?? do you recommend it? & does it affect my CPU lifetime?

Relatively safe. Yes, recommended. Yes, it will affect your CPU lifetime, but if done correctly, it will not be noticable.

 

[mfenn]

for example these are 2 links to 2 of the parts Ii've been looking for:
1- http://www.ebay.com/itm/Corsair-Ven...1550048?pt=US_Memory_RAM_&hash=item4abef8b460
2- http://www.ebay.com/itm/Asus-P8Z77-...509241606?pt=Motherboards&hash=item484bcb0506

Both of these parts are way too expensive given your overall budget. For your uses, there is no difference between a $250 mobo and a $100 mobo. You should be looking to spend less than $100 on the motherboard and less than $40 on the RAM.

You would end up being extremely disappointed in the upgrade if you were to blow your entire $600 on just a motherboard, CPU, and RAM. This is because your gaming performance would not increase much, if at all due to GPU bottlenecking. I'm talking maybe 5 FPS. Here's what you should do for $600:

i5 3570K $200
ASRock Z77M $88
G.Skill DDR3 1600 $34
Sapphire 7870 $250
Total: $572

Obviously international shipping is going to eat some more cash, but I don't really know how to predict that.

 

[Game-addict]

Both of these parts are way too expensive given your overall budget. For your uses, there is no difference between a $250 mobo and a $100 mobo. You should be looking to spend less than $100 on the motherboard and less than $40 on the RAM.

You would end up being extremely disappointed in the upgrade if you were to blow your entire $600 on just a motherboard, CPU, and RAM. This is because your gaming performance would not increase much, if at all due to GPU bottlenecking. I'm talking maybe 5 FPS. Here's what you should do for $600:

i5 3570K $200
ASRock Z77M $88
G.Skill DDR3 1600 $34
Sapphire 7870 $250
Total: $572

Obviously international shipping is going to eat some more cash, but I don't really know how to predict that.

thanks for the tips mate, am taking ur advice regarding everything u said, last I have 2 lil things to ask about:
1- ASRock mobos?? honestly I don't trust them & I prefer Gigabyte ones because of their durability, performance & lifespan. Gigabyte mobos are my lifetime mates til now.
2- I don't like/trust ATI GPUs that much, am a GeForce nVidia user for along time & am pretty comfortable with them coz most games are nVidia powered/supported/tested ...etc

this is the last thing I need to know after which am going to order my stuff. Regarding international shipment, it will add 70-100$ total..

ty all for the great tips, really appreciated

 

[Ketchup]

thanks for the tips mate, am taking ur advice regarding everything u said, last I have 2 lil things to ask about:
1- ASRock mobos?? honestly I don't trust them & I prefer Gigabyte ones because of their durability, performance & lifespan. Gigabyte mobos are my lifetime mates til now.
2- I don't like/trust ATI GPUs that much, am a GeForce nVidia user for along time & am pretty comfortable with them coz most games are nVidia powered/supported/tested ...etc

this is the last thing I need to know after which am going to order my stuff. Regarding international shipment, it will add 70-100$ total..

ty all for the great tips, really appreciated

The last three Gigabyte boards I have purchased have given my no problems at all. I have purchased them for other installations as well, no issue.

I am with you on nVidia also. You can get a little more performance per dollar with AMD right now, but how often are you buying new computers, right? AMD, from what I hear, is also slow to update/enhance their drivers. They had a HUGE increase with their latest official drivers (nVidia has had small increases with their last 2 beta drivers), it just makes one wonder why it wasn't there in the first place, you know?

 

[Game-addict]

how often are you buying new computers, right?

as u can see from the title of this thread, my current PC build is 5yrs old lol, I stopped chasing technology coz manufacturers are not giving us a break.. they keep adding new tech in short periods of time, so it's like the wolf (us) chasing road runner lol & this wolf never saw him catch road runner in any single episode lol.
So, am counting ur vote for Gigabyte & nVidia as vote number 1.
let's see how many votes these makers get

if these 2 makers won the vote, plz let me know which z77 mobo should I pick & what nVidia GPU would be ok for me.

 

[aaksheytalwar]

Gigabyte mobos suck. I have had the most problems with them. I would buy an Asus for $250+ mobos and asrock for every other budget.

And nvidia is a big no. Stick to 7850 oc in your budget.

 

[Ketchup]

...manufacturers are not giving us a break.. they keep adding new tech in short periods of time, so it's like the wolf (us) chasing road runner lol & this wolf never saw him catch road runner

That is so true, and it is so much worse than it used to be. Used to be, you would pay big bucks for something new every year or two because it was so much faster than what you had, AND had a lot more good features.

Now, customers are expected to pay for something that is a little faster, and may not even be noticeable based on what you are doing. I feel like asking the manufacturers, "do you honestly think anyone needs 10 USB ports on the same machine?" Is that your big upgrade?



I am not saying upgrading is for the birds, I am just saying that manufacturers should try harder to stay in business given the state of much of the world economy.

Edit: if you read my little rant, thanks!

 

[mfenn]

thanks for the tips mate, am taking ur advice regarding everything u said, last I have 2 lil things to ask about:
1- ASRock mobos?? honestly I don't trust them & I prefer Gigabyte ones because of their durability, performance & lifespan. Gigabyte mobos are my lifetime mates til now.

ASRock motherboards are perfectly good, just as good as Gigabyte, ASUS, or MSI. In fact, ASRock mobos are returned less than any of those three.

2- I don't like/trust ATI GPUs that much, am a GeForce nVidia user for along time & am pretty comfortable with them coz most games are nVidia powered/supported/tested ...etc

Either manufacturer is fine, it's just that AMD (no such thing as ATI anymore) happens to be offering better pricing right now for cards at your budget. If you'd rather pay more for a slower card, be my guest.

 

[Game-addict]

ok guys, am very close to putting all pieces together, thanks to you all.

here is my rig
1- Intel Core i5 3570/3570k Ivy bridge ~250$ (Incl. shipment)
http://ark.intel.com/products/65702/Intel-Core-i5-3570-Processor-6M-Cache-3_40-GHz

2- ASRock Z77 M LGA 1155 ~110$ (Incl. shipment)
http://www.asrock.com/mb/Intel/Z77M/?cat=Specifications

3- G Skill Sniper 8GB 2x4GB DDR3 1600 ~56$ (Incl. shipment)
http://www.ebay.com/itm/G-SKILL-Sni...6779527?pt=US_Memory_RAM_&hash=item27cd38d987
------
for the GPU I have few words to share with you guys, then am making my mind & closing this discussion with a winner

Well, the price DOES matter to me but am really confused, locked between 2 choices, one side of my brain says get an nVidia card because of my long time personal experience with nVidia as they never fail me at any aspect, besides they are great with drivers support never forgetting their other extra features like PhysX, TXAA implementation..etc & the other side of my brain says get a Radeon because it's cheaper!!!!

My greatest fears come down when trying new products like AMDs, products I never tried, products with a mid-level reputation (was mid-level I guess), overheating problems, power consumption ...etc, honestly if am going for Radeon HD 7870 it will be the first time in my life, my fears emerges from paying 240$ for something might get me problems.
Logically speaking, if the extra 50$ can save me from all these troubles & spare me the headache, well I guess paying 300$ for something that last long is much better than paying 240$ for something troublesome (& so your 240$ will be gone for nothing (a total waste)), please correct me if am wrong, am ok with criticism from which I get the knowledge & experience in this field of technology

Apparently, AMD made a huge step in GPU manufacturing that am not aware of because am a long time nVidia user. I guess I need to assure me & to whisper in my ear saying "GO for AMD, you are safe with buying one", guess this is what I really want to hear 'coz money really matters to me (for ex. I can buy a nice thermaltek/Cooler Master CPU cooler with 50$)

thank you all for your patience, really appreciated.

 

[mfenn]

ok guys, am very close to putting all pieces together, thanks to you all.

here is my rig
1- Intel Core i5 3570/3570k Ivy bridge ~250$ (Incl. shipment)
http://ark.intel.com/products/65702/Intel-Core-i5-3570-Processor-6M-Cache-3_40-GHz

2- ASRock Z77 M LGA 1155 ~110$ (Incl. shipment)
http://www.asrock.com/mb/Intel/Z77M/?cat=Specifications

3- G Skill Sniper 8GB 2x4GB DDR3 1600 ~56$ (Incl. shipment)
http://www.ebay.com/itm/G-SKILL-Sni...6779527?pt=US_Memory_RAM_&hash=item27cd38d987
------

This all looks fine.

My greatest fears come down when trying new products like AMDs, products I never tried, products with a mid-level reputation (was mid-level I guess), overheating problems, power consumption ...etc, honestly if am going for Radeon HD 7870 it will be the first time in my life, my fears emerges from paying 240$ for something might get me problems.
Logically speaking, if the extra 50$ can save me from all these troubles & spare me the headache, well I guess paying 300$ for something that last long is much better than paying 240$ for something troublesome (& so your 240$ will be gone for nothing (a total waste)), please correct me if am wrong, am ok with criticism from which I get the knowledge & experience in this field of technology

Your assumption here is that an AMD card is significantly more likely to be DOA than an Nvidia one. That is simply not true. In fact, the individual AIB manufacturer has more to do with it than who makes the CPU.

Here's actual data that behardware got from a large French retailer.

Return rates by AIB manufacturer:
- Sapphire 1.32% (as against 1.7%)
- ASUS 1.55% (as against 1.3%)
- PNY 1.62% (as against 1.0%)
- Club 3D 2.14% (as against 1.9%)
- Zotac 2.18% (as against 2.1%)
- Gigabyte 2.18% (as against 1.6%)
- MSI 2.25% (N/A)
- Gainward 2.43% (N/A)

Return rates by GPU manufacturer:
- Radeon HD 6870: 2.00% (as against 2.4%)
- Radeon HD 6950: 4.08% (as against 4.0%)
- Radeon HD 6970: 5.85% (as against 4.7%)
- GeForce GTX 560 Ti: 3.77% (as against 1.3%)
- GeForce GTX 570: 2.49% (as against 2.5%)
- GeForce GTX 580: 5.68% (as against 1.7%)

As you can see, there is really no significant difference between AMD and Nvidia, but there is about a percentage point difference between the best AIB company (Sapphire) and the worse (Gainward).

 

[JoeyP]

That is so true, and it is so much worse than it used to be. Used to be, you would pay big bucks for something new every year or two because it was so much faster than what you had, AND had a lot more good features.

Now, customers are expected to pay for something that is a little faster, and may not even be noticeable based on what you are doing. I feel like asking the manufacturers, "do you honestly think anyone needs 10 USB ports on the same machine?" Is that your big upgrade?

This is my biggest gripe. I am coming from a very old machine (see sig) and have a new rig on pcpartpicker. The price has fluctuated only about 5% in both directions for over a year now. It used to be that a machine spec'd would drop around 25% in a year because far better parts became available, and people would flock to those, leaving the older technology with little demand (and subsequently lower prices).

Now the trend is following what you see in sit-down chain restaurants: give the consumer a lot more than they can eat, while paying a little more, because there are no other differentiating factors.

 

[Ausm]

thanks for the tips mate, am taking ur advice regarding everything u said, last I have 2 lil things to ask about:
1- ASRock mobos?? honestly I don't trust them & I prefer Gigabyte ones because of their durability, performance & lifespan. Gigabyte mobos are my lifetime mates til now.
2- I don't like/trust ATI GPUs that much, am a GeForce nVidia user for along time & am pretty comfortable with them coz most games are nVidia powered/supported/tested ...etc

this is the last thing I need to know after which am going to order my stuff. Regarding international shipment, it will add 70-100$ total..

ty all for the great tips, really appreciated

I can tell from going from Gigabyte to ASRock, I've had no issue whatsoever. I am very happy with ASRock quality.

 

[Game-addict]

Your assumption here is that an AMD card is significantly more likely to be DOA than an Nvidia one. That is simply not true. In fact, the individual AIB manufacturer has more to do with it than who makes the CPU.

Here's actual data that behardware got from a large French retailer.

Return rates by AIB manufacturer:
- Sapphire 1.32% (as against 1.7%)
- ASUS 1.55% (as against 1.3%)
- PNY 1.62% (as against 1.0%)
- Club 3D 2.14% (as against 1.9%)
- Zotac 2.18% (as against 2.1%)
- Gigabyte 2.18% (as against 1.6%)
- MSI 2.25% (N/A)
- Gainward 2.43% (N/A)

Return rates by GPU manufacturer:
- Radeon HD 6870: 2.00% (as against 2.4%)
- Radeon HD 6950: 4.08% (as against 4.0%)
- Radeon HD 6970: 5.85% (as against 4.7%)
- GeForce GTX 560 Ti: 3.77% (as against 1.3%)
- GeForce GTX 570: 2.49% (as against 2.5%)
- GeForce GTX 580: 5.68% (as against 1.7%)
.

I wanna thank you all for the great participation you guys showed & for the great information you shared.

Am going for Sapphire Radeon HD7870. It's gonna be my first AMD product, hope I get no problems at all coz buying this GPU online, shipping it to where I live is gonna be risky coz if this GPU shows problems returning it to the seller will be very difficult.

thank you all :thumbsup:

 

[mfenn]

This is my biggest gripe. I am coming from a very old machine (see sig) and have a new rig on pcpartpicker. The price has fluctuated only about 5% in both directions for over a year now. It used to be that a machine spec'd would drop around 25% in a year because far better parts became available, and people would flock to those, leaving the older technology with little demand (and subsequently lower prices).

To be frank, you must be doing it wrong. As someone who has put together a weekly $1000 build for over a year now, I can state with authority that $1000 buys you twice the machine that it bought a year ago.

 

[szvwxcszxc]

Budget?