Upgrading from a 1.7Ghz Celeron

[PrayForDeath]

Hi
I have a 1.7Ghz Celeron @ 2Ghz, running on a Gigabyte motherboard, and I have 512MB of 133Mhz SDR memory, this setup is pretty slow, and my CPU is being a bottleneck for my GPU, so I wanna sell this crappy Celeron and get a P4 instead, I read the CPU support list for my mobo, and it says it supports 400Mhz FSB Northwoods (1.5-2.6Ghz) and it also supports 400Mhz FSB Willamettes (1.4-2.0Ghz), and I am thinking about getting a 2.2Ghz or 2.4Ghz Northwood and overclocking it to around 2.9Ghz, is this a good idea?
I have a question about the Ram, my mobo takes SDR ram only (I think), but doesn't the Northwood 400Mhz FSB take DDR? So how does my mobo support Northwoods? Or is it only the 533Mhz and above Northwood take DDR?
I am not planning on getting DDR memory, and I am also not planning on getting a new mobo, cuz when I move to Chicago, I'll get a whole new PC and leave this one to my family.
Sorry for the long post, any recommendations please?


p.s: does the 2.6Ghz 400Mhz FSB Northwood come as 26x100?

 

[PrayForDeath]

Bump!
By the way, do you know a specific unlocked P4?

 

[SickBeast]

Originally posted by: PrayForDeath
do you know a specific unlocked P4?

Pray all you want, there are no unlocked P4 CPUs; not even the P4EE.

:beer: for getting rid of a Celeron.

You should get a 2.8C P4 IMO. Whatever you do stay away from the Prescott.

EDIT: SDRAM? Can your motherboard even run the Northwood P4s? You'd better find out what your board tops out at.

:beer: for getting rid of SDRAM (if you do).

 

[PrayForDeath]

My motherboard supports 400Mhz FSB Northwoods (1.5-2.6Ghz) :
Link
So the fastest Northwood I can get is the 2.6Ghz, is it a good option? Is it worth the upgrade?
I am actually thinking on getting a 2.2Ghz Northwood and overclocking it to around 2.8ghz, cuz I don't wanna spend that much money on this semi upgrade, plust this will give me a faster memory (~160mhz).
What do you think?

 

[chilled]

You seriously need to change that board for a DDR one. I assume you have the i845 chipset - the SD RAM will hold back any CPU you get.

If I was you:
1. Change the board for a i865 800MHz FSB one.
2. Change the CPU to any Northwood P4.

 

[Zap]

"Modernizing" to a motherboard that supports DDR would be a good decision. More cost to you, but you'll have a much better experience and a wide selection to choose from. You can also sell your old motherboard/CPU/RAM on the for sale board here so your overall cost will be lower.

If you are changing the motherboard as well as CPU, don't limit yourself to the Pentium 4 platform. The Athlon XP platform is really mature and Mobile Athlon XP chips are all the rage right now for overclocking. Also, Athlon 64 platforms have been putting the P4 platform to shame performance-wise.

 

[SickBeast]

Originally posted by: PrayForDeath
My motherboard supports 400Mhz FSB Northwoods (1.5-2.6Ghz) :
Link
So the fastest Northwood I can get is the 2.6Ghz, is it a good option? Is it worth the upgrade?
I am actually thinking on getting a 2.2Ghz Northwood and overclocking it to around 2.8ghz, cuz I don't wanna spend that much money on this semi upgrade, plust this will give me a faster memory (~160mhz).
What do you think?

A 400mhz FSB Northwood is slower than an Athlon XP in just about every benchmark.

An 800mhz FSB Northwood gets beat by an A64 in most situations.

How much does the 2.2ghz Northwood go for? You can get a Mobile Barton CPU ($60)/motherboard($60)/512mb ram($70) combo for under $200, and it would dust the 400mhz FSB Northwood across the board.

 

[PrayForDeath]

Thanks for the replies, guys, but I am really not thinking about getting a new mobo, cuz as I said before, I am getting a whole new PC soon. If I was going to sell my current system, I would've bought an Athlon Mobile because they come unlocked; and I prefer AMD over Intel for gaming.
You are right, Chillled, I have the I845 chipset.
So do you think getting that Northwood is good for me?
Thanks

 

[SickBeast]

Originally posted by: PrayForDeath
So do you think getting that Northwood is good for me?

We need to know the price.

 

[PrayForDeath]

Hmm, no less than 110$ I guess (pricewatch)

 

[SickBeast]

How soon is "soon" regarding the new computer?

Honestly, you're upgrading one obsolete processor to another obsolete processor. Plus you'll still be stuck with SDRAM.

You should check the Tom's Hardware CPU charts to see if the performance you will gain from this will really be worth $110 to you.

Here is a Celeron 1.7ghz benchmark

Here is a P4 2.4ghz benchmark

I assume gaming is what you care about most. Even if you can eek out 2.4ghz from the P4 you're considering, it still performs very close to an Athlon XP 2100+ in games. Compare that 2100+ to the 3600+ rating you would get out of a Mobile Barton and you'll see why I'm thinking that this upgrade isn't the best idea.

If you don't mind some hassle, you could probably trade that SDRAM at no loss for DDR stuff on the FS/FT forum. Then you could get an XP Mobile Barton w/ a Shuttle motherboard for around $110.

 

[Peter007]

I recommended selling the motherboard + CPU and get yourself a cheapo Athlon XP on K7S5A to recycled the SDRAM.
Projected cost = $50-$60. You will get much better performance using SDRAM with AthlonXP than you EVER WILL
suing SDRAM on P4.

There really isn't any sense of buying a better P4, since it is the SDRAM that is holding you back.
P4 and P4-Celerons are very Memory Bandwidth dependent. P4 on a SDRAM is just a BAD IDEAS.
Remember P4 was designed with RAMBUS in mind, not SDRAM.
Where as AthlonXP was really an upgraded version of venerable Thunderbird, which was designed on SDRAM.

I'm very happying using 512mb SDRAM on AthlonXP 1700+ with ECS K7S5A.
This cheapo motherboard take both SDRAM+DDR, and allow me to overclock to 2000+.

DDR will naturally offer you superior perofrmance, but the GAP isn't as wide as P4-SDRAM versus P4-DDR.

Eitherway, I would UPGRADE to an ATHLON64 if I were you.
Have you had a chance to chekc out ANANDTECH's OWN "DOOM3 CPU REVIEW YET?"

I was contemplating on getting a P4-3.0 + MB for $200, not I'm going for the Ath64

 

[PrayForDeath]

OMG, you're both right, I've changed my mind, I think I'll sell this crappy system (CPU+Mobo+Ram) and get what you recommended for me (sickbeast), and I'll get 1024Mb DDR 333Mhz.
Well, "soon" means 4 months from now, so that's not anytime soon actually.
Thank you very much guys! I appreciate your replies

 

[SickBeast]

NP

Oh, and make sure you get PC3200 (DDR400) RAM; it's the same price as PC2700/333mhz stuff but it's faster.

 

[PrayForDeath]

But the Athlon XPs and Mobiles have 333Mhz FSBs, so they don't benefit from DDR400Mhz, right? Unless you mean DDR400 is good for me for overclocking.

 

[SickBeast]

Originally posted by: PrayForDeath
But the Athlon XPs and Mobiles have 333Mhz FSBs, so they don't benefit from DDR400Mhz, right? Unless you mean DDR400 is good for me for overclocking.

It's good for overclocking, and it will allow you to re-use the memory if you ever get an A64/uber-P4. It will run at 333mhz without an issue if that's what you want to do.

If you want to do your upgrade all in one shot, you could always go with the new Sempron 3100+ chip for S754. It's out very soon, is essentially an A64 for 32-bit only, and should be around $100. I'm not sure how much a cheap A64 board goes for.

Either of these options is better than the P4 upgrade you were considering IMO.

 

[PrayForDeath]

What happens if I get an XP and run the memory at 400Mhz? Does it run slower than 333Mhz? I mean, do I have to stick to the correct ratio to get the most performance out of the memory?
Thank you for the recommendations

 

[SickBeast]

Originally posted by: PrayForDeath
What happens if I get an XP and run the memory at 400Mhz? Does it run slower than 333Mhz? I mean, do I have to stick to the correct ratio to get the most performance out of the memory?
Thank you for the recommendations

If you run the memory at 400mhz, your computer will run ~20% faster than it would at 333mhz, or something along those lines. The higher your FSB, the better. 400mhz is great because it means the motherboard will be running in spec and it won't require expensive memory.

The mobile XP's are unlocked, so you can run them at any multiplier/FSB that you want. I have mine at 12x200 right now, so 2400mhz. It's at 1.725v IIRC.

Oh, and you're welcome. :beer:

 

[Concillian]

You can use PC3200 memory at slower speeds without issue, it just runs at 333 MHz.

The AXPs don't do as well at ratios other than 1:1. Most boards will allow 333MHz FSB and memory at 400, but there is very little, if any, performance gain.

But if you get an Athlon XP Mobile, you don't have to worry about ratios or whatever, because they are UNLOCKED... the end of an era, the last of the cheap unlocked processors. You can basically just set the FSB to 200 and change the multiplier to get the desired MHz. a mobile 2400+ is adequate to get at least 2200 MHz, which puts it between a P4 2.8 and 3.0 according to the Doom3 benchmarks on the AT front page. many get 2300 MHz or more out of them. You can tweak the FSB around a little to get the numbers in between the even hundreds, but I'm sure you get the idea.