Upgrading from 8 to 7, yipes $$$

[mikeford]

Son was a nominally happy XP pro user, bought him Assassins Creed whatever latest is while Amazon still listed it as running on XP, which it doesn't. Bought one of the win8 deals (actually bought two upgrade packages, and want zero so far) and put it on his system and he was able to play his new game, but once that was done he is hating 8, but needs DX one past what works on XP.

Noise level regards the hate 8 continues to rise, so I am looking at upgrading to Win7 64, and it seems a bit crazy pricing, and the various versions are confusing. We have 764 on a HTPC (tried 8 and hated it on this too, plus WMC fubared) so we have media, and I thought how hard and/or expensive could it be to find a nice legal COA/prod key ... How wrong I was.

OEM shows up in searches as the cheapest, but tied to one motherboard with no reactivation? He is getting a new motherboard this fall to upgrade, sounds like it wouldn't work.

Any suggestions other than "learn to like Win8" to put a good version of Win764 on his system?

 

[Berryracer]

Windows 7

the only good OS left IMHO

 

[bradly1101]

8 is getting a makeover, so it may be better then. Aren't there security enhancements in 8?

 

[Berryracer]

That's BS, the make over is enhancements for touch screens it's all about the gestures. absolutely no difference to the normal laptop/desktop user

security enhancements? give me a break, Windows 8 is no better than a fully updated Windows 7 + a good antivirus

Here's a video of the Windows 8 makeover. don't hold your breathe, same shit, lousy attempt from Microsoft to gain more Windows 8 toy customers

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=VQb5caeSo00

 

[mikeford]

Love those "security" enhancements, I've got a folder on my system right now that I recovered from a hard drive crash and Windows insists that I don't have permission to access it. Can't delete it to get rid of it, can't read it, and I have tried a LOT of stuff without success. Guessing eventually I will need some kind of DOS program to clean it off.

I really am not so much bashing 8 as noting that Win7 prices are out the roof, which should speak volumes.

 

[It's Not Lupus]

How about using a start menu app like Start8 or StartIsBack?

 

[Rhonda the Sly]

Love those "security" enhancements, I've got a folder on my system right now that I recovered from a hard drive crash and Windows insists that I don't have permission to access it. Can't delete it to get rid of it, can't read it, and I have tried a LOT of stuff without success. Guessing eventually I will need some kind of DOS program to clean it off.

When Windows (as of Vista) assigns access to new volumes/folders, it will usually assign itself permission, administrators of the system, and the owner. Now, to us the owner is just a name but to Windows, it's referred to by an Id string. If you right click on the folder, select properties, then click the Security tab, you should probably something similar to "Unknown" or "A1BCD-23EF4...". It's likely you just don't have access to that folder.

Use a guide such as this one or this one to learn how to change permissions.

I really am not so much bashing 8 as noting that Win7 prices are out the roof, which should speak volumes.

There are a couple things here to note. One, Windows 8 doesn't come in Retail packaging anymore, only Upgrade and System Builder, the latter usually being about half the price of Retail. Second, Windows 8 is typically sold at MSRP ($99 / $139 System Builder) while Windows 7 has seemingly come down in price slightly since introduction to match Windows 8. The prices, if I remember them correctly were $199 / $299 Retail and $139 / $199 System Builder. All said, Windows prices are high, period. I'm not seeing either 7 or 8 on sale through the newsletters in my mailbox but they will go on sale from time to time for maybe up to $30 the Home editions.

In short, Windows 7 is pretty cheap these days.

If it's worth it to you, tell your son to wait a few weeks and you might save some money, though I can make no promises.

Best of luck.

security enhancements? give me a break, Windows 8 is no better than a fully updated Windows 7 + a good antivirus

Real world? Maybe but there are actual security improvements that have gone into Windows 8 and more in 8.1. Whether you're talking about chain-of-trust implementation for boot or the incremental DEP or ASLR changes, they are there. Typically, the improvements made by either are thwarted because most malware seems to be installed by users themselves. It's all about OS resilience at that point but most of us won't trust a "compromised" OS and will do a reinstall at that point.

 

[Berryracer]

Love those "security" enhancements, I've got a folder on my system right now that I recovered from a hard drive crash and Windows insists that I don't have permission to access it. Can't delete it to get rid of it, can't read it, and I have tried a LOT of stuff without success. Guessing eventually I will need some kind of DOS program to clean it off.

I really am not so much bashing 8 as noting that Win7 prices are out the roof, which should speak volumes.

I use a program called Unlocker to delete all those stubborn folders without even having to worry about editing the ownership or security permissions

 

[mikeford]

Can't believe I just clicked on a linked .exc and gave it permission to run, but so far no boom. First shot of unlocker did zip, second said it didn't see locking on the folder, but gave me the option of moving it, failed to move it, but says it will try on next reboot, which I am about to do.

Regards price, I've always lagged the leading edge so I could go to a swap meet and buy two or three year old junk computer for $20 and use the COA, worked fine for half a dozen XP Pro systems, and I also take advantage of MS promotions like the developer deal with XP and a special lava lamp with XP sparklies inside, same for 7 when it came out. Problem is NOBODY wants 8, so I don't see the usual rotation of older hardware, and everybody is savvy to the value of the old COA.

6/3/13, just missed it Newegg did one day Win7 for $79, so trying to be patient, but son got sick of 8 and used our DVD to install 7, today he tells me, eh dad my 30 days to activate is up ...

Most of the that "enhanced security" is for MS benefit, not end users. Currently running Win764 in test mode so I can use a Xonar driver that "works", but is unsigned.

 

[Raduque]

You should have just bought and installed Start8. Would've been quicker, cheaper and easier.

 

[mikeford]

Unlocker wasn't able to give me access to the files in the folder, but I was able to eventually delete files and folder. Not easy to replace the contents, but that is done as well.

Son's 30 days to activate are up, but his system seems to still work, until something happens I think we will continue to look for cheap 7 key and deal with more extreme measures when it stops working.

 

[thomascwhitfield]

Son was a nominally happy XP pro user, bought him Assassins Creed whatever latest is while Amazon still listed it as running on XP, which it doesn't. Bought one of the win8 deals (actually bought two upgrade packages, and want zero so far) and put it on his system and he was able to play his new game, but once that was done he is hating 8, but needs DX one past what works on XP.

Noise level regards the hate 8 continues to rise, so I am looking at upgrading to Win7 64, and it seems a bit crazy pricing, and the various versions are confusing. We have 764 on a HTPC (tried 8 and hated it on this too, plus WMC fubared) so we have media, and I thought how hard and/or expensive could it be to find a nice legal COA/prod key ... How wrong I was.

OEM shows up in searches as the cheapest, but tied to one motherboard with no reactivation? He is getting a new motherboard this fall to upgrade, sounds like it wouldn't work.

Any suggestions other than "learn to like Win8" to put a good version of Win764 on his system?

It's not tied to one motherboard. I have re-activated my same WIn7 key probably a half dozen times, although it may require calling an automated phone number and typing in a whole bunch of numbers but it always works for me

 

[thomascwhitfield]

and it was an OEM key

 

[ViRGE]

It's not tied to one motherboard. I have re-activated my same WIn7 key probably a half dozen times, although it may require calling an automated phone number and typing in a whole bunch of numbers but it always works for me

Whether it works and whether it's in line with the EULA are two different things. The EULA for Win7 OEM is very clear: it's tied to the motherboard, except in case of mobo failure requiring a replacement. This is the concession you make for getting it at a fraction of the price of retail.

 

[PingSpike]

Regarding permissions on a recovered drive...in the past I've had this problem but I was always just able to 'take' permissions of the drive after the fact since I was administrator of the PC. I just edit the edit the ACL and manually add myself to the list. But its probably different now since that's a fairly obvious solution I'm sure you have tried.

 

[Chiefcrowe]

You know, i'd just get win8 w/ Start8 or something similar until the 8.1 upgrade is out and that should be pretty good.

 

[mikeford]

So far "nothing" has happened with the expired "enter key" 30 days except something about his desktop background, so for now doing nothing.

MS is under no obligation to continue the practice of offering OEM license users replacement keys. I can easily picture a couple years from now when support for 7 is ended to push Win9 that it gets turned off. My 3 year old HTPC is on its 3rd motherboard due to failures and compatibility issues with various replacement devices, with number 4 looking more and more likely.

I spent hours messing with all kinds of permissions, and not idly but following online instructions exactly and it was just hosed, access not granted. Using UnLocker I was able eventually to delete the files, but never access them.

 

[Cerb]

So far "nothing" has happened with the expired "enter key" 30 days except something about his desktop background, so for now doing nothing.

You lose access to some updates, too. It will also start nagging every several minutes. I ran my box like that for awhile, until I was sure I was ready to use one of my limited activations.

MS is under no obligation to continue the practice of offering OEM license users replacement keys.

I'll bet you they are very much under an obligation to make sure the key you got works. I can easily imagine a class action and bad PR if they stopped, regardless of what legalize they use in their one-sided license agreement.

OEM re-activates just fine. What you don't get are activations for multiple computers. Family pack licenses, FI, allow multiple computers with one key, as do the Action Pack (done by activation count), and site licenses.

Now, what happens ages from now, when the servers are not longer running? That is indeed a good question, and IMO, a good reason for embedded devs to get the Hell out of using Windows.

I spent hours messing with all kinds of permissions, and not idly but following online instructions exactly and it was just hosed, access not granted. Using UnLocker I was able eventually to delete the files, but never access them.

I habitually go to Linux, if taking ownership doesn't work on the first try. NTFS and NTFS-3g don't much care about what permissions NTFS has set .

 

[Mushkins]

Any suggestions other than "learn to like Win8" to put a good version of Win764 on his system?

Yes, buy a Windows 7 license. You've had three years to get a deal on a Win7 key. I got multiple keys, a mix of ultimate and professional versions, for between $40 and free over those three years.

They fundamentally changed their authentication structure starting with Vista specifically so you *cant* just jack the sticker off someones old box at a yard sale. OEM keys are tied to that computer, and retail keys dont come with stickers to slap on the outside of the case.

Not much we can do about you clinging to WinXp all this time. Sorry, but your options *are* to get used to Windows 8 or to buy a Windows 7 key at whatever crazy price the retailers want for leftover stock. They aren't producing or shipping retail copies of Windows 7 or Office 2010 anymore.

 

[accguy9009]

Windows 7 Home Premium SP1 OEM 64 $ 88.56 shipped

http://www.viosoftware.com/Windows+...+7+Home+Premium+SP1+OEM+64-bit+(Branded).html

Windows 7 Home Premium 64 $ 66.99 shipped

http://snaggstuff.com/microsoft-windows-7-home-premium-64-bit-full-oem-branded-gfc-00599-brd.html

 

[mikeford]

Waiting for a swap meet or yard sale broken pc with a COA sounds good.

More then cheap, its don't feed MS.

 

[Bull Dog]

Honestly would make a lot more sense to install something like StartIsBack. That will get you your Windows 7 style start menu back. If you don't like the default desktop theme it is fairly trivial to change that as well. It would be cheaper and I would think easier than starting over with Windows 7.

I believe that stock Windows 8 is an unmitigated disaster for the desktop (mouse and keyboard) user. However, once a few of the most egregious mistakes are fixed with 3rd party software, Windows 8 is a superior OS to Windows 7.

 

[VirtualLarry]

Love those "security" enhancements, I've got a folder on my system right now that I recovered from a hard drive crash and Windows insists that I don't have permission to access it. Can't delete it to get rid of it, can't read it, and I have tried a LOT of stuff without success. Guessing eventually I will need some kind of DOS program to clean it off.

I really am not so much bashing 8 as noting that Win7 prices are out the roof, which should speak volumes.

Use a bootable Linux distro to access those files. Linux's NTFS FS module(s) ignore the permissions (thankfully).

 

[mikeford]

Driver issues preclude using Win8, so all the GUI work arounds don't make much difference.

Vendors have no incentive to write drivers for any hardware not still in production, and in specialty video and audio cards that covers a lot of still useful devices.

 

[jkauff]

Driver issues preclude using Win8, so all the GUI work arounds don't make much difference.

Vendors have no incentive to write drivers for any hardware not still in production, and in specialty video and audio cards that covers a lot of still useful devices.

I recently installed Win 8 alongside Win 7, and was concerned that there was no Win 8 driver for my M-Audio Delta PCI soundcard, but the Win 7 driver works just fine. I think for some device types the driver model didn't change very much from 7 to 8.