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Upgrading Comp - How to choose Mobo?

PSUlion01

Member
Planning on upgrading my comp and want to get something like a P4 2.4 or equivilant in there. Been reading these boards but I don't know where to start when it comes to picking a mobo. I'm pretty comfortable working on the innards of computers, but never attempted anything like this (basically going to rebuild my PC).

I'm afraid of picking a mobo and having the thing cause havoc like some seem to do. I'll be using the PC for regular daily tasks (email, web, ms office) and will game sometimes as well, so I want the thing to perform. Not overly concerned with overclocking, but i might tinker with it in the future. I would like to use my existing Dell Dimension XPS case, so I'm trying to find a mobo to fit. What AGP speed (4x, 8x) should I shoot for? Also, what RAM should I focus on running? Would like to upgrade the mobo, processor, PS, RAM, HD, and vid card for around $600 or so.

Not sure where to post all of these questions, but if I can choose a mobo that would be a start. Any help building this system would be great!

Thanks guys!
Mike

 
Ok, first, I will highly recommend ditching the Dell case. Not only does it have horribly cooling properties, but el cheapo PS won't cut it most likely, and fitting a new one in is probably not going to work real well. There are a wide range of boards available for you to choose form, and I'll let the Intel crew make those recommendations. As for the HD, the WD Cavair Special Edition drives with 8mb cache are the choice for now. SCSI and SATA are way to expensive for you and you wont want to mess with that hassle on your first build. As for ram, that depends on the board. AGP 8X would be nice so you can upgrade your GPU later.
 
ok assuming i ditch the dell case, should i go for a case and PS separately, or can i get a decent PS already built into the case? Any suggestions?

basically getting lost with all the various specs (AGP 4x vs 8x, RAM speeds, etc) and it's making the mobo selection tough. i want to be able to pop everything together and have it work. simple as that. if i choose to o/c and have problems (overheating, crashing etc) then so be it. but if I run the thing stock out of the box i hope that everything goes smoothly.

lastly, can anyone recommend any software to diagnose my current dell? i've read that poor PS's can hurt performance, so is there software that will tell you the voltages, temp, etc etc?

Thx!!
Mike

 
To do any sort of monitoring of Voltage lines would be done through the motherboard right now, and that would require a motherboard with the available sensors. Now my experience with Dell system's isn't too extensive but I highly doubt they have the necessary circuitry built into their motherboards to allow you to do this, so chances are you probably can't. Easiest way to check anything off the PSU would be reading the label off the side of the PSU, and there you will locate the Amps delivered per voltage line, as well as total wattage. Also, a poor PSU not only hurts performance, but is often the cause of unstable systems. With that said, I would definately ditch the Dell case, since often they rework motherboards to fit their cases (proprietory hardware), or even if it was just a normal ATX, wouldn't provide good enough ventilation (although their scoop hood design to take out the hot air to the back is quite interesting). You can run into some serious heat issues although with proper planning the Dell case might work. The real thing I'd be worried about is the quality of the PSU.

Now if you're planning to purchase you're own Case and PSU, depending on the case manufacturer, a good quality PSU would come along or you can get a total POS. If you plan on getting some generic case (they run as low as $30CDN here or $20USD), then the PSU's included are usually unsuitable for today's high speed systems. A good idea may be to get a cheap case (if you don't really care about having a high end case) and an expensive PSU garanteeing you're system nice clean power. Personally I have a 300watt PSU and a 350watt PSU (both Enermax) and they run my AMD fine (specs in sig) and it uses a lotta juice (1HD, 5x80mm Fans, 2X92mm Fan and your usual hardware of Vid card, sound card, motherboard, 1700+ @ 2.1ghz... etc).

Also, AGP speeds hardly make a difference, but at this day and age, you should get a motherboard with AGP 8x just to facilitate the usage of new video cards in the future. You're video card would most likely be a AGP 4x if you're not looking for high end cards (GF4 MX, Radeon 9000, Radeon 9200, GF2MX, GF3 etc.) As for the Ram, you're definately looking at running DDR. I'd say get the highest speed Ram you can afford (at least PC 2700, PC3200 if you can afford it, Generic sticks cost $60USD a stick of PC2700 in Canada) and focus less on the brand name. If you're not really planning to overclock, no use plopping down $100+USD for a stick fo OCZ or Samsung, but a good high speed stick will allow you to run more aggressive timings at lower stock FSB's (the 2.4 is 133mhz FSB I believe?).

Lastly, I don't know if you're considered getting an AMD system, but I thought I might suggest one (since I'm running 2 AMD's and 1 Intel, I find the AMD much better bang for buck). I've figured out a system below that can fit you're budget:

AMD ATHLON XP 2400 /266 FSB PROCESSOR CPU - RETAIL $105
K7N2G-ILSR $131
SimpleTech (Simple Technologies) 512MB DDR PC2700 Major Brand Chip - OEM $55 (Cheap ram I know, but I've had luck with Cheap Ram 🙂)
WD WESTERN DIGITAL EIDE HARD DRIVE 80GB 7200RPM MODEL # WD800BB -CAVIAR OEM, DRIVE ONLY $85
ANTEC SOLUTION SERIES MODEL SLK3700AMB w/ANTEC SMART POWER 350W P4/AMD POWER SUPPLY ATX12V - RETAIL $73.99

So that's $449.99 (all prices from Newegg). If you want to use the onboard Video card, that's a GF4 MX righ there (adequate for gaming, around a R9000 and a GF4 MX level). If you want something better, just go out buy it and pop it in.

Sorry I can't give any recommendations for a P4 motherboard (not a P4 kinda person 😀).
I hope that helps you a bit.


 
Lurker,

Great info in that post...just the kind of pointers i've been looking for. Not dead set on a P4, but I've never had an AMD system, so i defaulted to Intel. A few more questions about the RAM/mobo... What's the deal with FSB? I see some boards support up to 533, but is that for the RAM or the processor? 133 seems low when compared to 533, but are we looking at different things? Also, some boards list ram speeds of PC2700, etc but others have PC100, 200, etc. Different yet again, right?

As for the case/PS, what are some good brands to look at (other than the ones you mentioned). Should I look at adding additional fans to the case?

I'll browse around newegg some more, but it helps to get suggestions like you gave.

Thanks for the detailed response!!
Mike
 
Originally posted by: PSUlion01
Lurker,

Great info in that post...just the kind of pointers i've been looking for. Not dead set on a P4, but I've never had an AMD system, so i defaulted to Intel. A few more questions about the RAM/mobo... What's the deal with FSB? I see some boards support up to 533, but is that for the RAM or the processor? 133 seems low when compared to 533, but are we looking at different things? Also, some boards list ram speeds of PC2700, etc but others have PC100, 200, etc. Different yet again, right?

As for the case/PS, what are some good brands to look at (other than the ones you mentioned). Should I look at adding additional fans to the case?

I'll browse around newegg some more, but it helps to get suggestions like you gave.

Thanks for the detailed response!!
Mike

With the FSB, Intel and AMD has chosen two different routes (and so has memory manufacturers) and can be quite frustrating.

Intel AMD Ram Actual Frequency
400mhz 200mhz PC1600 100mhz (not sure whether PC1600 or PC1800)
533mhz 266mhz PC2100 133mhz
664mhz 333mhz PC2700 166mhz (Intel doesn't put out 166mhz FSB CPU's)
800mhz 400mhz PC3200 200mhz

And there's higher ram such as PC3500, PC3700 etc. THe Idea with intel is they're "Quad-pumped" so the FSB frequency is multiplied by 4. AMD's is "Dual pumped" (dunno the exact name) and so it's multiplied by 2. The Ram names are the theoretical memory outputs in MB's (so 200mhz FSB should get you 3.2gb/sec although my own 200mhz Ram only does around 3.0gb/sec). The actual memory frequency is the actual FSB that is multiplied by the Multiplier on your CPU to get your CPU speed.

As for PC100, PC133, PC150, and PC200 (dunno if you see 150 or 200 very often), but they're for the very outdated SD-Ram. Those indicate the frequency at which they work at. So PC100 SD-Ram runs on a 100mhz FSB, 133 on a 133mhz FSB, and etc.

Also you might notice Newegg putting specs for CL and Voltage. Usually DDR-Ram voltage is 2.5 (I believe that is the standard) and the CL is the clock latency. The lower is better, so 2 is better than 2.5 and 2.5 is better than 3. From my experience though, lowering timings hardly gain you very much in terms of memory benchmarks, and even then, you probably won't notice it on everyday uses (maybe something memory intensive like Photoshoping), although most memory's are rated at 2.5, if you're running say PC2700 (so 166mhz FSB capable memory) but you're actually only running 133mhz FSB due to your CPU, then you can probably drop the latency to 2 and have it run fine. At any rate 2.5 ram is fine, and generic memory is probably adequate for you if you're not overclocking. Even if you are (which I am), generic ram can suprise you (my Generic does 200mhz 7-3-3-2, Hynix chips).


As for cases, Antec's are probably your best bet when coming with PSU's. If you're just looking for good cases, take a look at Skyhawk (ALuminum, good quality and cheap), Lian Li (Aluminum, EXPENSIVE, very high quality), IN-WIN (Steel, good price, decent quality, haven't seen them around much nowadays), AOpen (Steel, Decent quality, good price), Chenming (basically antec cases, aluminum, good quality), Kingwin (Good Quality, a little expensive for what you get, Chenming's more affordable although dunno if you can get it at Newegg), Thermaltake (Good quality (basically Antec chasis), really expensive, lotta extra's you probably dun't need). All in all, I think the Antec is you're best bet, they're good quality (I have a Antec SX1200), come with good Power Supplies for the money, and will have you all set up. Only grip I have is that it doesn't have a motherboard tray.

As for PSU brands to look for, check out the Antec PSU's, Enermax PSU's, Kingwin, Thermaltake, Sparkle.

Gimme a shout if you need anymore information.

 
Originally posted by: The_Lurker

With the FSB, Intel and AMD has chosen two different routes (and so has memory manufacturers) and can be quite frustrating.

Intel AMD Ram Actual Frequency
400mhz 200mhz PC1600 100mhz (not sure whether PC1600 or PC1800)
533mhz 266mhz PC2100 133mhz
664mhz 333mhz PC2700 166mhz (Intel doesn't put out 166mhz FSB CPU's)
800mhz 400mhz PC3200 200mhz

And there's higher ram such as PC3500, PC3700 etc. THe Idea with intel is they're "Quad-pumped" so the FSB frequency is multiplied by 4. AMD's is "Dual pumped" (dunno the exact name) and so it's multiplied by 2. The Ram names are the theoretical memory outputs in MB's (so 200mhz FSB should get you 3.2gb/sec although my own 200mhz Ram only does around 3.0gb/sec). The actual memory frequency is the actual FSB that is multiplied by the Multiplier on your CPU to get your CPU speed.

Ok understand the breakdown above. You lost me a bit towards the end (multipliers and CPU speed, but it rings a bell from my readings about overclocking). Which Intel chips are 800mhz (you said they don't put out a 166mhz, right? AMD only?)? I've seen the P4s advertised as either 400mhz or 533 mhz, but none at 800. Also, since I'm new to the AMDs, what's the deal with the names, i.e. 1700+, 1800+, etc.? Are these pretty much the clock speeds i.e. 1.7ghz, 1.8ghz, etc.? If so, which is basically the sweet spot right now (the P4 2.4 seems to be the best bang for the buck, is the XP 2400 pretty much the same as a P4 2.4 @ 533mhz? I think i might be understanding all of this!)

As for PC100, PC133, PC150, and PC200 (dunno if you see 150 or 200 very often), but they're for the very outdated SD-Ram. Those indicate the frequency at which they work at. So PC100 SD-Ram runs on a 100mhz FSB, 133 on a 133mhz FSB, and etc.

Wasn't really considering this memory, but I noticed that some mobos listed this as the memory accepted, while others don't specify, and others still specify the PC2100, PC2700, etc.

Also you might notice Newegg putting specs for CL and Voltage. Usually DDR-Ram voltage is 2.5 (I believe that is the standard) and the CL is the clock latency. The lower is better, so 2 is better than 2.5 and 2.5 is better than 3. From my experience though, lowering timings hardly gain you very much in terms of memory benchmarks, and even then, you probably won't notice it on everyday uses (maybe something memory intensive like Photoshoping), although most memory's are rated at 2.5, if you're running say PC2700 (so 166mhz FSB capable memory) but you're actually only running 133mhz FSB due to your CPU, then you can probably drop the latency to 2 and have it run fine. At any rate 2.5 ram is fine, and generic memory is probably adequate for you if you're not overclocking. Even if you are (which I am), generic ram can suprise you (my Generic does 200mhz 7-3-3-2, Hynix chips).

Ok lower CL the better. Is this something that I can adjust (if so, how? BIOS? Jumpers on mobo?)? So if my Ram is faster than my CPU bus requires, I can lower the CL or lower the voltage to increase performance? Getting lost in the above, as the latency and voltage numbers are the same (2.5). When you say 2.5 ram, is that the voltage or the latency? Now is this considered overclocking the ram? Lastly, what does it mean when you say yours does 200mhz (actual frequency i.e. PC3200 stick?) 7-3-3-2??? Did you take the PC3200 and lower the voltage and/or latency to better match your processor (which may be what? AMD running at 266 FSB?)

As for cases, Antec's are probably your best bet when coming with PSU's. If you're just looking for good cases, take a look at Skyhawk (ALuminum, good quality and cheap), Lian Li (Aluminum, EXPENSIVE, very high quality), IN-WIN (Steel, good price, decent quality, haven't seen them around much nowadays), AOpen (Steel, Decent quality, good price), Chenming (basically antec cases, aluminum, good quality), Kingwin (Good Quality, a little expensive for what you get, Chenming's more affordable although dunno if you can get it at Newegg), Thermaltake (Good quality (basically Antec chasis), really expensive, lotta extra's you probably dun't need). All in all, I think the Antec is you're best bet, they're good quality (I have a Antec SX1200), come with good Power Supplies for the money, and will have you all set up. Only grip I have is that it doesn't have a motherboard tray.

As for PSU brands to look for, check out the Antec PSU's, Enermax PSU's, Kingwin, Thermaltake, Sparkle.

I'll have to shop around for the cases/PS... If I go with the new case I'll be able to keep the dell tower intact and then I'd have an extra pc to tinker with (may experiment with Linux or something...) What's the deal with the motherboard tray? Also, how do I know what wattage PS to get (300w, 350w, 400w)?

Thanks again for all the help...this is getting easier by the minute!
Mike
 
Hmmm.... my charts spacing kinda disappeared. At any rate, you're CPU speed is made up of the following formula.

Multiplier x FSB = CPU Frequency.

So what you have is any CPU comes with a set multiplier (be it 8, 9, 10, 10.5 etc, they only come in 1 or half increments eg 8, 8.5, 9.0). You're CPU is then determined by the speed of the FSB it can run at. So if you're FSB frequency is say at 200mhz FSB and you're CPU multiplier is at 8, then you'd get a 1600mhz CPU. Ok, now that's outta the way, Intel so far only has 100mhz FSB (so they advertise as 400), 133mhz FSB (advertised as 533) and recently they've released their new 200mhz FSB CPU's (advertised as 800). If you'd notice, they're all the actual frequency of the FSB multiplied by 4, which is where they're marketing comes in. That was what i meant by "quad-pumping". They're claiming that for every 1 mhz FSB, they're motherboard architecture allows for 4 times as much data.

Now, AMD's have used something called a PR-rating. If you remember what that is from the good ole Cyrix days, it actually is rating the CPU higher than the actual frequency. There really isn't any formula, however if you head on over to
OCinside.de they have a nice little applet that converts PR Ratings to actual MHZ. Now the idea behind this is that an AMD 1700+ CPU will perform at a rate equivalent to a 1.7Ghz T-Bird (according to their PR department) whilst only being clocked at 1.467ghz. Now this is really directed towards Intel CPU's although they don't say so. So essentially, when you're buying a 2400+ AMD Athlon XP (Actually it's running at 2.0 Ghz), AMD is saying it will perform about equivalent to a 2.4 T-Bird (essentially 2.4 P4) if not faster (thus the Plus at the end). The PR-Rating can be quite misleading at times, so often you should check out the actual frequency before purchasing a CPU, however I can say that a 2400+ CPU does indeed perform around 2.4ghz. This has to do with the nature in which the hardware was developed for the Athlon XP. They are very strong FPU performers compared to Intel CPU's.

Now the ram, almost all new DDR-Ram Motherboards run really any speed ram (faster is ok, just slower might be an issue). If you're planning to get a 133mhz FSB CPu, then you need at least PC 2100. To make things simple, get at least PC-2700 (166mhz memory), and it'll do you fine, unless you're getting a 200mhz FSB P4 which then you would need PC3200, although it would probably be out of you're price range.

Oops.. it's purely coincidental that the RAM case Latency is 2.5 and the Voltage is 2.5v. Most ram voltages is 2.5v. You really can't run the voltage any lower so keeping it at 2.5v is great. Ram Latency is usually 2.5, although it is adjustable in the motherboard. The CL=2.5 means the CAS Latency is 2.5. It seems that a lotta memory manufacturers find the CAS latency most important to advertise, but there are other governing factors on how fast your memory can run. So a crash course on memory latency.

Essentially the Speed of you're ram is governed by a few things. Cas Latency, Act to Precharge Delay, the RAS to CAS delay, and the RAS delay. Now i won't pretend I know what all that means exactly, but it will suffice for most to know that the lower the number, the faster the ram. Now when most people give a slew of memory timings (i said 7-3-3-2). The last number often represents the CAS Latency, the first representing the RAS Delay, and the two in between represent the Act to Precharge Delay and the RAS to CAS delay. To put those speeds into perspective, 5-2-2-2 is about as fast memory timings as you can get, and 8-3-3-3 is the slower end (nobody ever really goes slower). So all of these are adjustable in the BIOS, and just adjust for lower.

So back to how it affects you. When say you get a PC3200 stick of Ram. That memory can run at 200mhz default. (that would be 400mhz for AMD and 800mhz for Intel). If you can only run your CPU at say 133mhz FSB, then you ram would be running at 133mhz FSB (266 AMD, 533 Intel). That is in no ways challenging you're memory at all, so you can lower your timings. Now in that scenario, you would technically be underclocking you're memory, but running faster timings.

Memory doesn't really need to be matched. It's like a car. If the speed limit to your road is 60mph, you're not going to go out and buy a car that does only 60mph, you'd get a car that goes over that speed. Same with memory, the CPU can only run at 133mhz FSB, but to be say, buya stick of 166mhz FSB just so you have leeway to overclock or when you're upgrading, use the memory in the future with higher FSB memory.

If you do what I did, buy a stick of PC2700 (166mhz FSB) and run it at PC3200(200mhz FSB) speeds, then you'd be overclocking. My point was just to say that Generic ram can often do quite well, while you pay MUCH less.

Now the case, a lotta new cases come with something called a motherboard tray. Essentially this tray is where you'd mount your motherboard, but is removable from the case. A lotta people that do a lotta work on their hardware (swapping in and out, etc) often find a motherboard tray helpful, but for the average consumer, it is useless. My advice to you is don't take that into too much consideration (if any), and get a case that you like that looks good and fits you're budget. As for wattage, I'd say go for a high quality 350watt PSU. My enermax 350 watt does
+3.3v 32A
+5v 32A
+12v 26A

Combined +3.3v and +5v is 185w and max combined DC output is 350watt combined. Now the key here is to look for good Ampage on each of the + rails as well as a good combined +3.3v and +5v. In comparison, the total wattage is somewhat less significant (although definately go for 350 or higher). I'm quite sure a 350 watt would suffice for your computer usage (unless you go crazy and buy like 10 SCSI 10000RPM drives or something, now those eat up power), but for the average consumer a 350watt good quality power supply will do quite well.

Hope that helps 😀 Lotta info 😛
 
Originally posted by: The_Lurker


So back to how it affects you. When say you get a PC3200 stick of Ram. That memory can run at 200mhz default. (that would be 400mhz for AMD and 800mhz for Intel). If you can only run your CPU at say 133mhz FSB, then you ram would be running at 133mhz FSB (266 AMD, 533 Intel). That is in no ways challenging you're memory at all, so you can lower your timings. Now in that scenario, you would technically be underclocking you're memory, but running faster timings.

Memory doesn't really need to be matched. It's like a car. If the speed limit to your road is 60mph, you're not going to go out and buy a car that does only 60mph, you'd get a car that goes over that speed. Same with memory, the CPU can only run at 133mhz FSB, but to be say, buya stick of 166mhz FSB just so you have leeway to overclock or when you're upgrading, use the memory in the future with higher FSB memory.

If you do what I did, buy a stick of PC2700 (166mhz FSB) and run it at PC3200(200mhz FSB) speeds, then you'd be overclocking. My point was just to say that Generic ram can often do quite well, while you pay MUCH less.

Ok so is there any benefit to underclock the ram (by having a CPU that isn't as fast as your ram) and running faster timings, or is this just something to do if your cpu is older/slower than your memory?

How do you overclock the ram from 166mhz to 200mhz? Is that just by running faster timings? So your AMD 1700+ runs at what FSB? 400mhz? If not, how can you run the ram at this speed? wouldn't it be capped by the bus of the cpu?


Now the case, a lotta new cases come with something called a motherboard tray. Essentially this tray is where you'd mount your motherboard, but is removable from the case. A lotta people that do a lotta work on their hardware (swapping in and out, etc) often find a motherboard tray helpful, but for the average consumer, it is useless. My advice to you is don't take that into too much consideration (if any), and get a case that you like that looks good and fits you're budget. As for wattage, I'd say go for a high quality 350watt PSU. My enermax 350 watt does
+3.3v 32A
+5v 32A
+12v 26A

Combined +3.3v and +5v is 185w and max combined DC output is 350watt combined. Now the key here is to look for good Ampage on each of the + rails as well as a good combined +3.3v and +5v. In comparison, the total wattage is somewhat less significant (although definately go for 350 or higher). I'm quite sure a 350 watt would suffice for your computer usage (unless you go crazy and buy like 10 SCSI 10000RPM drives or something, now those eat up power), but for the average consumer a 350watt good quality power supply will do quite well.

ok good info in the lengthy post... still trying to understand the rails and volts/amps of the PS. not going to fret over it, i'll just use the specs you gave as a baseline...

thanks again...really informative stuff!

 
Hehe.. hope this helps 😀 I'm not all too clear at times.

Ok ok... so when you get your CPU (say for example my 1700+), it comes with a default multipliers and FSB. In my case, it would be 11x133 (which gives you 1.47ghz apprx). Now when I overclock, I have two ways, I can either increase the Muliplier, or increase the FSB. With my motherboard, I have the option of increasing or decreasing my Multiplier basically from 8-12.5, and my FSB can run anywhere from 100mhz to 200mhz. So when you're overclocking, you're trying to achieve a higher overall clock frequency (that would be any combination where the total output frequency is over 1.47ghz). Now you have to understand, Timing has NOTHING to do with clock frequency, it is merely how fast the memory prepares itself for data. So if you'd look at it this way, pretend you're memory is your car. Your car has a max speed of 200mph (that's fast, i KNow). Now, regardless of anything, your max speed is 200mph. Now that is like your FSB speed. Your max would be say 200mhz or 133mhz depending on your CPU (if you're not overclocking) or if you are, any FSB inbetween that you choose. Now when you tweak your timings, that's like making your car go from 0-200mph in 20seconds, versus 30seconds. It doesn't make your FSB any faster, merely makes your memory get to running data faster. That's essentially waht happens. Now right now, I have my AMD 1700+ up to 2.1ghz (10.5x200). So that 200mhz is the actual frequency of the memory, but according to AMD, it's at 400mhz actual speed (it shows up on bootup as that). That has nothing to do with my ram timings. I can run my timings at 10-5-5-5 and it would still be at 200mhz FSB. Only thing is the memory has a higher latency. (higher timing, longer time till i can access the ram).

So what is more beneficial for your system? Well considering most system's bottleneck is in the memory subsystem (that's why Cache seems to help so mucH), then upping the memory frequency (the mhz of your memory) is much more beneficial. Of course if you're not planning to overclock, you'd have to keep everything at default (Multiplier and FSB). The timings aren't considered overclocking or anything, merely allowing your system to access the memory more often, so timings are independant of overclocking.

Now the PSU, if you get a good quality 350watt (like the ones I suggessted), then you'd be fine. Probalby dont' have to check all the amps and everything.

Hope that helped a bit.
 
The_Lurker: Kudos and High-Fives for excellent answers to the questions posed in this thread! You are thorough and patient while being very informative. I'm sure this post and any others you make will stand as a lasting reference for newbies to the system building realm. Thank you for a job well done!

HUN-YA!

Red Ronin
 
yea this thread has helped greatly!! It's almost like a FAQ for building a PC. Many thanks to Lurker for his patience and help! Still sorting some things out, but hope to get the building underway shortly!!

 
Originally posted by: RedRonin
The_Lurker: Kudos and High-Fives for excellent answers to the questions posed in this thread! You are thorough and patient while being very informative. I'm sure this post and any others you make will stand as a lasting reference for newbies to the system building realm. Thank you for a job well done!

HUN-YA!

Red Ronin

Thx alot Red Ronin! I definately hope it helps PSUlion01 out 😀 LMK how it goes when you start building 🙂
 
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