Upgrading a s775 system

[blacktankofhopelessness]

Ok, I'll try to do this without leaving any question marks regarding my system still in place after you've read this post.

For starters, here is my current setup:

ASUS P5Q SE2
Intel Core2duo E4500 w effective air cooler
3 GB PC6400 RAM
Radeon HD3850 512MB
Antec Sonata III w 500W PS
Windows XP

I'm running everything at stock speeds even though I initially purchased this setup to be able to overclock if I felt any need for it.

My question now is where my primary focus should go if I were to upgrade this system with a budget of around 150 Euros. I'm guessing my GPU is a bottleneck, especially if I were to try a bit of overclocking (on my CPU, don't think my RAM can go above its designated speeds at all).

My PC will mainly be used for gaming. New games that make me think I will have to upgrade to experience them fully are Deus Ex: Human Revolution, Fallout: New Vegas (the vanilla game will likely not be very taxing on the GPU, I know. But with texture mods it might), and Shogun: Total War 2.

I'll be buying parts in Sweden, and I'm planning to do it before/around christmas time. I don't have any brand preference to speak of but since noise levels are a concern I don't want a card with a loud fan.

I'd really appreciate any guidance you can offer me.

 

[fffblackmage]

I'm not familiar with prices of computer parts in Europe, but I'm guessing 150 Euros isn't very much to work with. It's alright to stick with the E4500, but you'll certainly need a new graphics card. What graphics card can you get for 150 Euro? And what resolution is your monitor?

Are you using the stock cooler for the E4500? You might also need to spend a bit for a better cooler for overclocking the E4500. You can find plenty of resources googling for "E4500 overclocking." Overclocking the ram most likely won't be necessary.

 

[ther00kie16]

Can you give us a link to a Swedish e-tailer?
Some GTX 460 seem to be just above 150 euros on amazon.de so if you wait a couple of weeks for the launch of the Radeon 6000 seires, perhaps they will fall into your budget.

 

[blacktankofhopelessness]

Thanks for the help guys!

I have a very good cooler, can't remember the model number but it's a huge Thermalright thingy that keeps my temps at very low levels even at the lowest fan setting. I seem to remember it was highly recommended for 775 boards and CPUs two years back.

The GTX 460 goes for about 170-190 euros in Sweden. ATIs 5770 goes for 140-150. Are they very different performance wise? Waiting for the launch of a new GPU series sounds like a good idea. I'm in no rush at the moment.

http://www.webhallen.com/hardvara/113993-asus_geforce_gtx_465_1gb-pci-e_inkl_mafia_2

http://www.webhallen.com/hardvara/104316-msi_ati_radeon_hd_5770_1gb-pci-e-2xdvi-hdmi

I'm actually thinking about a new monitor as well since the one I have is only a 17". My "working" position is very close to the screen though so I'm not sure I really need a bigger screen or rather, if it's worth forking out another 150-200 Euros on one. I usually play games at 1280x1024, which is my monitor's max resolution...

EDIT: The GTX460 768MB version goes for 140-150 euros. Are they really 30 euros worse than the 1GB version?

 

[betasub]

You should check out the AnandTech mainsite review of the GTX460.
http://www.anandtech.com/show/3809/nvidias-geforce-gtx-460-the-200-king
The difference between GTX460 1GB and GTX460 768MB is more than simply memory size: it also extends to the ROPs inthe GPU.

Recommending a card for you depends partly on game and resolution. But how many of the games you list are even released yet? Pretty hard to gauge performance on that basis. Nevertheless, the GTX460 1GB is faster than the 5770 in almost all cases: it is closer to the 5850 in performance across the board. The GX460 768MB is only recommended if you are sticking with a sub-1080p resolution (please tell us you are not staying at a miserable 1280x1024!). It's hard to recommend the 5770 when AMD's 6xx0 cards are just around the corner, but prices on the 5770 are falling fast so you may be able to jump on a hot deal if you can't wait.

 

[mfenn]

I'd like to echo what others' have said. OC the CPU, wait for the 6000 series to hit, save up some more cash for a GPU.

 

[blacktankofhopelessness]

Ok, looks like I'm going with the GTX460 1GB. I want to be able to go above the "miserable 1280x1024" at some point so I'm prepared to spend a little more right now. That way I should be covered when I get a bigger and better monitor!

Thanks a lot for the advice, all of you!

 

[AstroGuardian]

Go for the GTX460 and OC your CPU to FSB 1066. That will give you a nice performance bump. Your memory can handle it... even with FSB1333 but you will need a better cooler for that...

 

[blacktankofhopelessness]

Go for the GTX460 and OC your CPU to FSB 1066. That will give you a nice performance bump. Your memory can handle it... even with FSB1333 but you will need a better cooler for that...

I have a Zerotherm NV120 cooler that keeps my CPU at nice temps at the lowest fan speed. I reached 3 Ghz yesterday (300x10) but went down lower to 2.9 Ghz (325x9) since I wasn't completely stable and am reluctant to increase Vcore over 1.3 due to temp and chip longevity concerns. All the other voltages are at standard values. I'm getting temps of 30C idle and 52C load (30 min torture test) in Speedfan on both my cores with this setup which seems fair enough.

While my FSB is rated at 1300 mhz, by using dividers my memory speed is set to just under 800 Mhz (PC6400 standard) since none of my sticks will go far above the factory standard, nevermind all the way up to 1066 or 1333! I don't know why you would suggest that high a memory overclock for even quality PC6400 rated RAM. Is that even possible?

Anyway, I'm very happy with a CPU performance increase of 33 percent and see no need to try and push my chip or anything else further at this point.

 

[fffblackmage]

No no no. For C2D/C2Q, memory is sync'ed to the FSB at a ratio 2fsb:1ram. For example, if the FSB is at 1600 MHz, your memory should be at 800 MHz. You won't have to overclock the ram until you go past 1600 MHz FSB.

What temps are you getting under a full load? Run Prime 95 or something to load the cpu.

 

[ther00kie16]

No no no. For C2D/C2Q, memory is sync'ed to the FSB at a ratio 2fsb:1ram. For example, if the FSB is at 1600 MHz, your memory should be at 800 MHz. You won't have to overclock the ram until you go past 1600 MHz FSB.

What temps are you getting under a full load? Run Prime 95 or something to load the cpu.

In most better boards, you can set ram frequency and fsb separately.

 

[blacktankofhopelessness]

In most better boards, you can set ram frequency and fsb separately.

Indeed, which is exactly what I've done. By using the term "dividers" I might have caused some confusion though...

And as I stated in my previous post regarding temps:

I have a Zerotherm NV120 cooler that keeps my CPU at nice temps at the lowest fan speed. I reached 3 Ghz yesterday (300x10) but went down lower to 2.9 Ghz (325x9) since I wasn't completely stable and am reluctant to increase Vcore over 1.3 due to temp and chip longevity concerns. All the other voltages are at standard values. I'm getting temps of 30C idle and 52C load (30 min torture test) in Speedfan on both my cores with this setup which seems fair enough.

The "torture test" refers to Prime95.

 

[mfenn]

Temps look fine, and that's a pretty decent OC.

 

[ther00kie16]

Don't be shy and add some voltage. Most say 1.5 is safe limit for those core 2. So just bump it up to 1.4 if you are at all concerned. You speak of longevity but in another couple of years, that system will be yearning for an upgrade or rebuild.

 

[fffblackmage]

And as I stated in my previous post regarding temps:

Woops, somehow I totally missed that...

Don't be shy and add some voltage. Most say 1.5 is safe limit for those core 2. So just bump it up to 1.4 if you are at all concerned. You speak of longevity but in another couple of years, that system will be yearning for an upgrade or rebuild.

Apparently, newegg lists the operating voltage of the e4500 as "0.85V – 1.5V." I'm not comfortable with 1.5V though. When I had my E6320, I never went beyond 1.35V for 24/7 use (just didn't need more voltage), and never beyond 1.45V for finding max possible OC.

In most better boards, you can set ram frequency and fsb separately.

Bleh, with my E6320, I think I'm just too used to seeing a FSB of 1600MHz as normal with my ram set to DDR2-800.

 

[blacktankofhopelessness]

Don't be shy and add some voltage. Most say 1.5 is safe limit for those core 2. So just bump it up to 1.4 if you are at all concerned. You speak of longevity but in another couple of years, that system will be yearning for an upgrade or rebuild.

A voltage of 1.5 is listed by Intel as max for my chip. I'm not willing to max it out and risk quicker burnout. And by longevity I mean that I want this system to last as long as possible. I want to choose when to upgrade or rebuild my system. I don't want to be forced to do it because one of my components just fried.

 

[AstroGuardian]

You don't have to set it @ 1,5v. Set it @ 1,4 and that will be enough for super overclock.
About reliability and longevity there was a post here @ AT about that issue. It turned out that risk is minimal and even just theoretical. So don't be afraid to OC the chip if it is capable. If the CPU will run 40 years at stock speeds it will run for 35 years overclocked to the max. So that should not be a concern.

 

[blacktankofhopelessness]

You don't have to set it @ 1,5v. Set it @ 1,4 and that will be enough for super overclock.
About reliability and longevity there was a post here @ AT about that issue. It turned out that risk is minimal and even just theoretical. So don't be afraid to OC the chip if it is capable. If the CPU will run 40 years at stock speeds it will run for 35 years overclocked to the max. So that should not be a concern.

Well, if the risk is minimal that means there is still a risk. I'd rather be far from risking anything at all at 2.9 Ghz and reasonable temps than cutting it close at 3.1 and higher temps. Furthermore, the difference in performance isn't really worth it for me at this point. I'll see if I feel it is worth it once I get that GTX 460.

But for now I am perfectly satisified with a 33 percent increase in CPU speed.

 

[blacktankofhopelessness]

I'd just like to say thanks again for the advice on my GPU upgrade. I ended up getting a MSI GTX 460 Hawk Talon Attack. It seemed a very good bang-for-buck card and I'm extremely happy with it. Playing Fallout: New Vegas with everything maxed (my 3850 actually managed high settings quite well) and looking forward to trying it with other more graphics intensive games.

The next step is getting a 1920x1080 capable monitor. Judging from my setup described in the first post, may I ask for suggestions as to what to look at next? My CPU is O/C stable at 2,9 Ghz.

 

[VirtualLarry]

I have a Zerotherm NV120 cooler that keeps my CPU at nice temps at the lowest fan speed. I reached 3 Ghz yesterday (300x10) but went down lower to 2.9 Ghz (325x9) since I wasn't completely stable and am reluctant to increase Vcore over 1.3 due to temp and chip longevity concerns. All the other voltages are at standard values. I'm getting temps of 30C idle and 52C load (30 min torture test) in Speedfan on both my cores with this setup which seems fair enough.

Vcore for a 65nm C2D can be increased to 1.5v safely, cooling permitted.

I had my two E2140 chips at 2.8 and 3.2 with 1.425v in BIOS, which was around 1.36-1.37 under load in CPU-Z. Temps with a HyperTX2 were around 80-85C max, on a hot summer day.

 

[mfenn]

I'd just like to say thanks again for the advice on my GPU upgrade. I ended up getting a MSI GTX 460 Hawk Talon Attack. It seemed a very good bang-for-buck card and I'm extremely happy with it. Playing Fallout: New Vegas with everything maxed (my 3850 actually managed high settings quite well) and looking forward to trying it with other more graphics intensive games.

The next step is getting a 1920x1080 capable monitor. Judging from my setup described in the first post, may I ask for suggestions as to what to look at next? My CPU is O/C stable at 2,9 Ghz.

Glad you like it, but that GPU has a few too many adjectives in its name to normally be a good deal. I hope you paid less than $200 for it.

Anyways, grats!

 

[blacktankofhopelessness]

Aye, though the "Talon Attack" part is supposed to differentiate it from the slightly lower clocked "Hawk" card. It clocks at 810 Mhz which is 95 Mhz higher than the cheapest GTX460 1GB card at one of the local dealers (Webhallen - a swedish online retailer specializing in computer hardware). At only a 10 euro difference in price the choice was an easy one.

The card cost me 1749 SEK which is roughly 250 USD. But since everything is more expensive here in Sweden (25% VAT among other things) and the USD is really weak at the moment it is hard to compare fairly. The cheaper options will still set you back around 235 USD over here.

 

[mfenn]

Aye, though the "Talon Attack" part is supposed to differentiate it from the slightly lower clocked "Hawk" card. It clocks at 810 Mhz which is 95 Mhz higher than the cheapest GTX460 1GB card at one of the local dealers (Webhallen - a swedish online retailer specializing in computer hardware). At only a 10 euro difference in price the choice was an easy one.

The card cost me 1749 SEK which is roughly 250 USD. But since everything is more expensive here in Sweden (25% VAT among other things) and the USD is really weak at the moment it is hard to compare fairly. The cheaper options will still set you back around 235 USD over here.

Doesn't sound too bad in that case.