Upgrade Time....New AGP Card or New System?

[Splotto]

Hello:

After shelling out $100+ bucks on CIV4 and COD2 only to see them fail to run on my system, I felt that it's time to upgrade.

Here are my specs:

ASUS P4C800-E Deluxe
P4 2.6 GHz
ATi 9800 Pro
1 Gig RAM
and so on.....

The real issue is: Spend money on a better AGP card or step it up to a whole new system (new MoBo, CPU, RAM and Video)?

I appriciate your input. Thanks in advance.

Splotto

 

[The Green Bean]

why dont those games run on your system? Its pretty decent

 

[cnhoff]

I have a P42.6@3.3 with 1.5 Gig of RAM and i recently replaced my aging 9700 Pro with a 6800 GT AGP and am very happy with my system's performance.

I play Riddick, FEAR, Quake 4, Age of Empires 3 all at maximum settings at 1280*960 4*AA 8*AF without any performance problems. Except maybe FEAR which i run at 1024*768 4*AA 8*AF for better performance, but besides those 7800 owners who can run this game at higher settings?!

So my advice is oc your 2.6 GHz P4 to something over 3GHz (mine went to 3.3 at stock voltage with stock cooling without any problems whatsoever), buy a 6800 GT (maybe overclock it to Ultra settings, just as easy as the P4) or a X800 XL and have 90% of the best performing solution at a fraction of the price. For me it is just like giving my system another 1.5-2 years at the top of gaming for virtually nothing.

 

[Splotto]

Originally posted by: hatim
why dont those games run on your system? Its pretty decent

You got me. I have tried to figure it out with no luck. It seems to be the ATi card.

When COD2 kept crahing (it won't even get through the menu before locking up) I removed my soundblaster and switched to the onboard audio to eliminate the SB as the issue). I had the latest ATi drivers installed (5.10). It won't even run with the game in safe mode (DX7 vs. DX9).

I have tried uninstalling and reinstalling COD2 and everything else I could think of.

All this occurred on a brand new install of XP since CIV4 somehow trashed my XP install by crashing.

I have browsed the COD2 fansite forums and no one else seems to be having the issue.

CIV4 has an ATi issue so I am blaming it on that for CIV4.

Splotto

 

[Splotto]

Originally posted by: cnhoff
I have a P42.6@3.3 with 1.5 Gig of RAM and i recently replaced my aging 9700 Pro with a 6800 GT AGP and am very happy with my system's performance.

I play Riddick, FEAR, Quake 4, Age of Empires 3 all at maximum settings at 1280*960 4*AA 8*AF without any performance problems. Except maybe FEAR which i run at 1024*768 4*AA 8*AF for better performance, but besides those 7800 owners who can run this game at higher settings?!

So my advice is oc your 2.6 GHz P4 to something over 3GHz (mine went to 3.3 at stock voltage with stock cooling without any problems whatsoever), buy a 6800 GT (maybe overclock it to Ultra settings, just as easy as the P4) or a X800 XL and have 90% of the best performing solution at a fraction of the price. For me it is just like giving my system another 1.5-2 years at the top of gaming for virtually nothing.

Thanks. My P4 is already OC'd to 2.88 which about all it's happy with. I am happy with the system by just wasn't sure if spending $300 on an AGP card wouldn't be better spent towards a new system.

Splotto

 

[DAPUNISHER]

If you mean you can't live with the settings you have to run those at with a 9800P, then a used 6800GT would be a good upgrade. You can always overclock that P4 too, heck, probably get to 3.2-3.4ghz no problem.

Edit: Ah, I see your issues. I'd go ahead and sell that stuff off and invest in a new 939 system then.

 

[Splotto]

Originally posted by: DAPUNISHER
If you mean you can't live with the settings you have to run those at with a 9800P, then a used 6800GT would be a good upgrade. You can always overclock that P4 too, heck, probably get to 3.2-3.4ghz no problem.

Hello:

Not at all. The rest of the PC is fine. I am very happy with it and haven't even begun to explore my real OC possabilities. The only real drag seems to be the video card.

Its not the settings on the games...they won't run at all. They lock up and crash. I have eliminated all the possible issues but video so I was going to make a change.

I just don't know if the money is well spent on an AGP card at this point.

Splotto

 

[anandtechrocks]

I'd say pick up a fast AGP card and keep the current system. ~$300 is much more attractive than ~$700-$800.

 

[DAPUNISHER]

Well, I'd do memtest86+, and 2 instances of prime95 if you have HT enabled, and be certain the CPU&ram are indeed completely stable. If they both pass, then I'd start by being certain the fan on the 9800p is spinning good, and perhaps even remove the cooler and replace the t.i.m with some Ceramique' or other HQ stuff.

If the vid card is borked then just ponying up approx. $225 for a used 6800GT would be a substantial improvement for gaming.

BTW, if the card turns out flakey, you can use a utility to access the 9800p core and ram so you can tweak the speeds. I'd try underclocking the ram and see if it stabilizes. I have had borked ram on a vid card wreak havock until I edited the bios to run the ram@a speed that it was stable at. That hurts performance obviously, but it let me save a card for use, that was unusable junk otherwise.

 

[Splotto]

Originally posted by: DAPUNISHER
Well, I'd do memtest86+, and 2 instances of prime95 if you have HT enabled, and be certain the CPU&ram are indeed completely stable. If they both pass, then I'd start by being certain the fan on the 9800p is spinning good, and perhaps even remove the cooler and replace the t.i.m with some Ceramique' or other HQ stuff.

If the vid card is borked then just ponying up approx. $225 for a used 6800GT would be a substantial improvement for gaming.

BTW, if the card turns out flakey, you can use a utility to access the 9800p core and ram so you can tweak the speeds. I'd try underclocking the ram and see if it stabilizes. I have had borked ram on a vid card wreak havock until I edited the bios to run the ram@a speed that it was stable at. That hurts performance obviously, but it let me save a card for use, that was unusable junk otherwise.

Hello:

The card and system are 100% stable in everything else and have been for the last year. I don't know if it's a stability issue.

As for the card, I still run with my case open and the fan is running fine. The card is not tweaked at all.

RE: your ram problem...did the card with the bad ram run fine the rest of the time?

Splotto

 

[DAPUNISHER]

The card was fine in 2D, once you started 3D, then it would cause all sorts of issues. If you can play other games fine for long periods then it is doubtful the card is borked. Newer games are increasing demanding, so I'd still test the CPU&ram. That will narrow down the list of usual suspects for you. I always like to pinpoint the problem, often it can be fixed without throwing money at it

 

[Splotto]

Originally posted by: DAPUNISHER
The card was fine in 2D, once you started 3D, then it would cause all sorts of issues. If you can play other games fine for long periods then it is doubtful the card is borked. Newer games are increasing demanding, so I'd still test the CPU&ram. That will narrow down the list of usual suspects for you. I always like to pinpoint the problem, often it can be fixed without throwing money at it

Well, thanks for the advice because I think I have discovered something.

I installed the Rage3d Tweak program to see how well my core and MEM are runnning and once it shifts to a 3D test the system locks up.

Splotto

 

[M0RPH]

When I played the COD2 demo, I noticed that if I had the video settings set too high the game would just crash. So if you can get to the in-game video settings, turn everything down and see if that makes it stable. I thought COD2 had its own safe mode too, but I could be wrong on that.

 

[Splotto]

Originally posted by: M0RPH
When I played the COD2 demo, I noticed that if I had the video settings set too high the game would just crash. So if you can get to the in-game video settings, turn everything down and see if that makes it stable. I thought COD2 had its own safe mode too, but I could be wrong on that.

COD2 does have its own safe mode and I have been using that. It still crashes in safe mode.
Bottom line....I suck.

 

[DAPUNISHER]

Originally posted by: M0RPH
When I played the COD2 demo, I noticed that if I had the video settings set too high the game would just crash. So if you can get to the in-game video settings, turn everything down and see if that makes it stable. I thought COD2 had its own safe mode too, but I could be wrong on that.

Yeah, the demo is buggy here too, but not crashing. I see the scarecrow effect with the soldiers that lost coast has, and everytime I start it up it says my hardware changed since the last time.

 

[DAPUNISHER]

Originally posted by: Splotto

Originally posted by: DAPUNISHER
The card was fine in 2D, once you started 3D, then it would cause all sorts of issues. If you can play other games fine for long periods then it is doubtful the card is borked. Newer games are increasing demanding, so I'd still test the CPU&ram. That will narrow down the list of usual suspects for you. I always like to pinpoint the problem, often it can be fixed without throwing money at it

Well, thanks for the advice because I think I have discovered something.

I installed the Rage3d Tweak program to see how well my core and MEM are runnning and once it shifts to a 3D test the system locks up.

Splotto

If the card crashes in all 3D use then you may have borked ram or core, try tweaking them downward and see if you can get it stabilized at some lower setting. I'd start with the ram.

 

[Splotto]

Originally posted by: DAPUNISHER

Originally posted by: Splotto

Originally posted by: DAPUNISHER
The card was fine in 2D, once you started 3D, then it would cause all sorts of issues. If you can play other games fine for long periods then it is doubtful the card is borked. Newer games are increasing demanding, so I'd still test the CPU&ram. That will narrow down the list of usual suspects for you. I always like to pinpoint the problem, often it can be fixed without throwing money at it

Well, thanks for the advice because I think I have discovered something.

I installed the Rage3d Tweak program to see how well my core and MEM are runnning and once it shifts to a 3D test the system locks up.

Splotto

If the card crashes in all 3D use then you may have borked ram or core, try tweaking them downward and see if you can get it stabilized at some lower setting. I'd start with the ram.

Hello:

Well, thanks for your adivce. I seem to have found a problem. I cranked my core and memory all the way down and the game runs just fine now (at least in safe mode so far which is much better then before). I am going to keep playing to find the sweetspot.

Thanks for all your help.

Splotto

 

[DAPUNISHER]

Hopefully you don't have to kill the performance too badly to get it stable. Good luck

 

[Splotto]

Originally posted by: DAPUNISHER
Hopefully you don't have to kill the performance too badly to get it stable. Good luck

"That is how you negotiate with Facists, Comrade."



Splotto

 

[otispunkmeyer]

you can buy my AGP 6800GT off me its got a zalman vf700cu on it too !

 

[A5]

The Civ IV problem is fixable - http://www.2kgames.com/civ4/support_ati.htm