Upgrade Options (Big Headache) Requesting Assistance

[ByronicHero]

Hey guys, I'm considering on upgrading my computer some time during this summer in order to get up to date with some modern gaming with my friends. Namely Shogun 2 (and its expy FOTS) but my current PC is so SHAMEFUR is not even funny. So I've been asking around the net to get some opinions on what I should do. The below options are a culmination of every thing I've datamined/learned from my other threads and similar threads.

My budget is limited due to my previous months expenditures on anime figurines and Blu Rays. Not to mention future budgeting for PSP VITA, P4 Arena & Golden, and ofc more anime. Ideally, somewhere around 300 USD (originally wanted to include the games in the budget but right now....). I'm also constrained by a variety of bottle necks:

CPU: Athlon II x2 255 3.1 Ghz (limits GFX card selection unless I upgrade CPU)
Micro ATX Mobo (size constriction of HSF/GPU?)
Monitor: Max Resolution 1280x1024 (limits GFX card, since I'm not planning on buying a whole new monitor anytime soon)


Possible Upgrades:
Option 1 – GFX Card only (ATI HD 7750 )– approx 109.99 USD (AMD suggested min. PSU reqs. 400W, 20Amps on 12V)

Keep Current Generic PSU (I have a Cyberpower PC ), which is a 500 W (Peak vs Continuous? unsure which), w. 12V rails [12v1 : 21Amps] [12v2 :17Amps]

Pros: Decent performing "single slot" card.

Cons: Forseeable risks, PSU blowing up and frying all my parts including new GPU.; Limited upgradability/ future proofing if I buy better monitor in 2-3 yrs or if my current monitor dies.

Option 2 – GFX Card and PSU (ATI HD 7750) – approx 109.99 USD (suggested min. PSU reqs. 400W, 20A on 12V) – limited use at higher resolutions
PSU Option – 450w-500W only (Brand OCZ or Corsair) limited 40-50 USD

Pros: Pros: Decent performing "single slot" card.

Cons: Limited upgradability/ future proofing

Option 3 - GFX Card and PSU
HD6850/GTX 460 Card 120-180 USD
PSU – 600/650 W Option 60-80USD (currently looking at OCZ ModXstream 600W vs Corsair CX600)

Cons: Price and CPU bottleneck, restricted resolution


Option 4

Replace CPU with Phenom X4
Replace PSU with one from Option 3
Get a HD 6870 (XFX)

Cons: Phenom X4 runs hot and might need aftermarket HSF, Price, and total performance restrained by low Monitor resolution

As you can see, with so many different options and restrictions, its certainly too much for me to decide. Ahh the paradox of choice.

Anyways, any help or advice would be much appreciated.

 

[Ken g6]

First, the good news: Your current PSU should be able to handle a 6850 or 6870. Prefer either one over a 7750.

My main questions are:
- Do you plan to overclock?
- What's your current RAM? (DDR2 or DDR3? 1.5v or less?)
- Would changing your mobo require a new OS license?

Note: about 9 questions like this [thread=80121]can be found here[/thread]. Hint, hint.

 

[ByronicHero]

Sorry about that...I was on lunch break at work.....so I kinda just copy pasted my question from another forum.

1) Gaming (Light-Average, would like to Run max units on Shogun 2, BF3 I probably won't play due to my rustyness from PC FPSs)

2) Budget: For the Upgrades $300, at most 375-400.

3) United States

4) No brand preference, however I'm stuck with AMD CPU due to socket on Mobo. (I do believe changing my MOBO invalidates my OEM liscense, but not my CPU but I should double check).

5) I really want to keep costs down, and not invalidate my windows liscense, so keeping my ASUS (can't remember model offhand) Micro ATX Mobo is a must. PSU I'm flexible because its Generic and from what I've read on these types of parts I'm gambling with the rest of my parts. CPU I'm willing to Upgrade if it will cause bottleneck with other parts.

PSU: 500W (or so it claims?), 12V rails v1=21A v2=17A (Most worried about seprate 12v rail amperages

CPU: AMD Athlon II x2 255 3.1 Ghz Stock Socket AM3
RAM: 2GB DDR3 (uses up all 2 ram slots)

7) I might overclock the GPU, CPU I'd rather not as I don't want to increase expenses of getting aftermarket HSF.

8) 1280x1024, although I kinda want some of these parts to be reusable when I get a new display in 2-3yrs?

9) Summer at the latest (So late May when Spring Term ends).

 

[krnmastersgt]

How can you stand watching anime on that kind of monitor?

That aside ideally you'd probably want to pick up a cheap quad (those games seem pretty CPU intensive) or at least a tri-core for am AM3 socket, unfortunately cheapest quad seems to be about $100 so that'd eat up a third of your budget instantly (and possible heat issues as you've mentioned, though with sufficient airflow you shouldn't have a serious problem).

In terms of the sweet-spot for money I'd have to suggest you aim for a 6850, it'd give you plenty of power and can be had for just over $100 and would leave you clear of worrying about your GPU till you got a substantial monitor upgrade (till 1920x1080 with eye candy in a stressful game I don't see the 6850 having any real trouble).

However if you're not planning on upgrading the monitor you could get away with a much cheaper card thus saving quite a bit of money now.

So I guess my real recommendation depends on: Are you planning on upgrading your monitor within the next year or so? (or does it seem to be dying)

Also I don't understand why you'd spend money on Blu-Rays of anime with a monitor limited to that resolution (CRT right? or do you just have some square LCD display?)

 

[ByronicHero]

My family has 2 40in LCD TVs.

I watch my anime blu-rays on the one in the living room. Also play my PS3 on that.

So far, I don't really think my monitor is dying (despite the fact I got it when F.E.A.R just came out,when did my first self build) . Although I'll lol if I just jinxed myself there.

Yep, I have a square LCD. Its just that its for mostly collectors purposes, at least he Madoka LEs. Some of the stuff I haven't even opened (since between Full-Time College and P/T work, I don't have a lot of time).

 

[mfenn]

Since you go to college, you can most likely get a Windows license for free or at least very cheap ($20 or so). I'd definitely investigate that as it really opens up your options. For example:

Pentium G620 $70
Biostar H61MLC $50
G.Skill DDR3 1333 8GB $38 - your current 2GB is really killing you
6850 $120 AR AP
Total: $278

 

[ByronicHero]

I believe that all of the OSes by college offers are upgrade versions, so I'm pretty sure if I switch out my motherboard, those licenses won't work. So I'm not sure how its supposed to work. So your advising a complete overhaul with a Sandybridge build then?

Is my current system really that bad that I have to completely rebuild it lol?

 

[mfenn]

I believe that all of the OSes by college offers are upgrade versions, so I'm pretty sure if I switch out my motherboard, those licenses won't work. So I'm not sure how its supposed to work. So your advising a complete overhaul with a Sandybridge build then?

Is my current system really that bad that I have to completely rebuild it lol?

What school do you go to? And yes, your system is pretty deficient currently.

 

[ByronicHero]

Baruch, its a CUNY Business School in Manhattan.

Its barely 2 yrs old, when I selected it, I selected with some upgradability in mind lol. (At the time, my parents bought it).

 

[mfenn]

Baruch, its a CUNY Business School in Manhattan.

Hmm, seems like what you really need to do is sign up for a CIS course and get on the MSDNAA bandwagon.

 

[krnmastersgt]

I don't really see the need for a platform swap, although one would be nice.

I think it'd be better to spend your upgrade funds by going for a Phenom II x4 or x6 (nice power for the cost) and grabbing a 2x4GB memory set, still leaves enough room for a sub $100 video card which should be enough for most games at that resolution.

 

[ByronicHero]

Hmm, seems like what you really need to do is sign up for a CIS course and get on the MSDNAA bandwagon.

I'm already in the MSDNAA bandwagon. Those Windows 7 OSes are upgrades. As in you have to have a OS preinstalled, a clean HD will not work. Although I'm not sure if it will over an invalidated lisence when you switch out a mobo.

 

[davidthemaster3]

I'm with MSDNAA and I can get the full version of Windows ... I had to search for it though because it only showed french upgrade versions (I live in a french region).

And you can sort of clean install a Windows upgrade version ... you just have to clean install with the upgrade version, skip windows activation and "upgrade" that clean install with your windows upgrade ... not as clean but still better than an upgrade!

 

[Summer01]

I'm already in the MSDNAA bandwagon. Those Windows 7 OSes are upgrades. As in you have to have a OS preinstalled, a clean HD will not work. Although I'm not sure if it will over an invalidated lisence when you switch out a mobo.

They must've changed it. I graduated it from Baruch in June '10 and managed to get a full copy of WIndows XP and 7 before leaving.

 

[ByronicHero]

Hmm..I rechecked the Baruch MSDNAA site, I don;t see anything specific about getting an upgrade version or a full version that can be installed cleanly. In anycase, having that option open is not bad. However, is it now more cost effective to strip out the guts of my PC then and move from AMD-> Intel?

 

[krnmastersgt]

Your school might have specifically disabled a clean install of 7 for whatever reason, or your specific account is limited to specific software.

In any case as I said before while it would be nice to do a platform upgrade I think you'd benefit more from just a stronger CPU currently (unless Shogun 2 isn't really optimized beyond 2 threads).

 

[ByronicHero]

Lol.. I did a comparison on newegg right now. An upgrade to the phenom (which more or less necessitates a PSU swapout and new HSF) 8gbs of RAM, and a 6850 (or lower) will cost me almost as much as a complete new Intel build.... And apparently, the Intel will give me more performance for the price.

FML.

When the h**l did PC gaming technology jump this far.

For me the problem it seems as if my untrustworthy PSU is really complicating my options. Not to mention that the Phenom runs ridiculously hot apparently and more or less requires me to get an aftermarket cooler. Which is why I ask if an Athlon II x3 or x4 would work?

 

[krnmastersgt]

The Intel system will give you better performance in general however I'm not sure it'd necessarily give you the processing power you'd need for Shogun 2. That being said I can't seem to find a definitive answer as to how well its optimized for more than 2 cores so the Intel route might still produce better results.

Is Shogun 2 the only game really in consideration, or is just the only game that will stress the system at all?

 

[ByronicHero]

Yea, its prolly the only game that will heavily stress my system. At most, I'll probably play legacy games on it like COH, Solar Empire, Tactical Fleet Sim and etc.

Skyrim and the like I could play on my PS3. Although, it really depends.

 

[Ken g6]

FML.

When the h**l did PC gaming technology jump this far.

What happened was AMD promised upgradability, then delivered Bulldozer, which is roughly as bad as Intel's Pentium 4 was. (Well, it's not bad for server processing, but it's terrible for gaming.)

For me the problem it seems as if my untrustworthy PSU is really complicating my options.

What makes you think your PSU is untrustworthy? Have you had symptoms you haven't mentioned, or is it just that it's "generic"?

As for the two rails issue, you just have to balance the power across the two rails. But let me make it simple. A 6850 takes either one or two of these power connectors:


How many it takes depends on the model. Now, pop open your case and look at your power supply cables. If your power supply has just one, then that should be powered by the smaller rail; while the larger rail powers the CPU. Get the 6850 Mfenn linked to, plug in that cable, and you're golden.

Now, if your power supply has two of those (or one with 6 pins and one with 6 pins and two detachable pins), each one should be from one of the rails. Get this 6850 instead, for the same $120 AR, plug them both in and you're golden.

 

[ByronicHero]

Well, one of the problems with my PSU is doesn't have a 6 pin PCI-E cable. I think it currently has one spare molex or at most two. That already makes me kinda doubt how the PSU is supposed to power the GPU. Not to mention combined amperage in 38A. over 12 Volts. Using very rough physics calcs, that means the PSU only delivers 456W of power, not 500.

And no, I haven't really seen PSU failure symptoms. I'm just worried that under a heavy load, it'll fail and fry my new components.

 

[mfenn]

I'm already in the MSDNAA bandwagon. Those Windows 7 OSes are upgrades. As in you have to have a OS preinstalled, a clean HD will not work. Although I'm not sure if it will over an invalidated lisence when you switch out a mobo.

I happen to be an MSDNAA administrator at a university, and I can tell you that the keys are retail keys. I just double-checked my admin panel, and the Upgrade version of the OS isn't even an option through MSDNAA, they are all full versions.

 

[mfenn]

Well, one of the problems with my PSU is doesn't have a 6 pin PCI-E cable. I think it currently has one spare molex or at most two. That already makes me kinda doubt how the PSU is supposed to power the GPU. Not to mention combined amperage in 38A. over 12 Volts. Using very rough physics calcs, that means the PSU only delivers 456W of power, not 500.

And no, I haven't really seen PSU failure symptoms. I'm just worried that under a heavy load, it'll fail and fry my new components.

Assuming that your PSU can actually deliver those 38A, that is plenty for a 6850 system.

 

[mfenn]

The Intel system will give you better performance in general however I'm not sure it'd necessarily give you the processing power you'd need for Shogun 2. That being said I can't seem to find a definitive answer as to how well its optimized for more than 2 cores so the Intel route might still produce better results.

Is Shogun 2 the only game really in consideration, or is just the only game that will stress the system at all?

Even if it is optimized for quad core, two Sandy Bridge cores are roughly equivalent to 4 Phenom II cores in terms of raw computing power.

 

[ByronicHero]

Yea, yesterday I also doubled checked with our technology center director, he told be to his knowledge, they don't even offer upgrade versions and they should be the retail keys.

That really makes the rebuild quite tempting lol. The only problem I see with that now is that if I were to theoretically rebuild my PC, I would have to "pay off" the 530 my stepdad spent on this PC first before I would get free reign to just go off and build my next PC....Not to mention its hella more conspicious and he/they'll get on my case cause I'm "wasting money". He'll go like if you have that kind of money to blow you might as well start paying rent....ugh.

God, living at home sucks. I can't even spend the money I earn the way I want.

Any ideas you guys think I could use to convince them of a new build?