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Upgrade now or wait?

Jun 23, 2005
14,551
81
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#1
I've been researching an upgrade to my i5 2500 over the past month because it has gotten too long in the tooth for gaming and is capping my framerates. I'm considering a 9600k, but likely a Ryzen consisdering the logevity of the AM4 platform. But from what I'm hearing, the NEXT Ryzen will be a huge leap over what they're putting out now. I tend to make the big purchases around black friday and december for the lower prices, but if something huge is on the horizon, should I wait? Are their next generation processors poised to be release at the same time next year as their 2 series launched this year? Or are we looking until well into 2020 until the cpu spaces moves to 7nm?
 

whm1974

Diamond Member
Jul 24, 2016
5,825
152
96
#2
I think 7nm Zen 2 will still be on AM4 with Zen 3 using AM5 out in ~2020 or later. If you do need more cores/threads now then I would build a new system around the Ryzen 2600/2700 CPUs which will still give you better performance then what you have now.

What is your total budget?
 

tamz_msc

Platinum Member
Jan 5, 2017
2,120
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#3
Ryzen 3000, ie. consumer Zen 2 on 7nm would not release earlier than Q2 2019, if past releases are any indication. Are you willing to wait until then?
 
Feb 23, 2017
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#4
1st and 2nd gen were April, but next gen seems likely to be later.
I doubt that any further information about release dates will become available until January.
I doubt that you could go too far wrong by buying a 8700k (6c/12t), 9600k (6c/6t), or a Ryzen 2600 (6c/12t), and maybe a 2700 (8c/16t) depending upon your budget.
Given the length of time that you've used your current CPU, I reckon you'll want to be 'future-proofing' to a certain extent.
There likely isn't a correct answer to your question really. Whenever anyone is looking to buy there is always that next super product just around the corner.
 

whm1974

Diamond Member
Jul 24, 2016
5,825
152
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#5
If I recall rightly didn't AMD said something like they planned on supporting AM4 for five years in early 2017 when they first released Zen? It is possible that they may wait until DDR5-6400 is available before introducing socket AM5.
 

scannall

Golden Member
Jan 1, 2012
1,250
47
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#6
If I recall rightly didn't AMD said something like they planned on supporting AM4 for five years in early 2017 when they first released Zen? It is possible that they may wait until DDR5-6400 is available before introducing socket AM5.
It was for 3 generations, not 5 years.
 

hasu

Senior member
Apr 5, 2001
972
1
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#7
1st and 2nd gen were April, but next gen seems likely to be later.
I doubt that any further information about release dates will become available until January.
I doubt that you could go too far wrong by buying a 8700k (6c/12t), 9600k (6c/6t), or a Ryzen 2600 (6c/12t), and maybe a 2700 (8c/16t) depending upon your budget.
Given the length of time that you've used your current CPU, I reckon you'll want to be 'future-proofing' to a certain extent.
There likely isn't a correct answer to your question really. Whenever anyone is looking to buy there is always that next super product just around the corner.
It may be worth considering the ones with suffix X such as 2700X. Looks like the performance difference between X and non-X is more than 10%
 

Freddy1765

Senior member
May 3, 2011
386
0
81
#8
It may be worth considering the ones with suffix X such as 2700X. Looks like the performance difference between X and non-X is more than 10%
The only difference between x and non-x is essentially factory clocks. There's practically no point buying the x-version when you can just up the multiplier and save some money. Overclocking is a trivial thing to do.
 

SPBHM

Diamond Member
Sep 12, 2012
4,708
9
106
#9
I've seen some cheap 4c/8t Xeons for lga 1155 recently, even the e3 1280 (faster than the i7 2600) might be worth considering that or an i7, if you have enough DDR3 and so on already.
 

scannall

Golden Member
Jan 1, 2012
1,250
47
136
#10
The only difference between x and non-x is essentially factory clocks. There's practically no point buying the x-version when you can just up the multiplier and save some money. Overclocking is a trivial thing to do.
I went with the 2600X. It was $20 more than the 2600, and comes with a better cooler. I get 4.2 Ghz all cores, 4.3 to 4.4 single core on lightly threaded apps. All on the stock cooler, and stock settings. Warranty intact, and no having to fiddle around with it.
 

killster1

Diamond Member
Mar 15, 2007
3,970
46
91
#12
Tighten your RAM timings. There's free performance in there for Ryzen systems.

just curious whats the point of this post? who is it even referring to? We all have the same question of what to upgrade to from the 3770k the ryzen 2600 looks great 150-160, b450 for 80 ram for 120.. but is it that much of a upgrade? the 9900k looks amazing even grabbed a asrock pro4 z390 for the 9900k upgrade but something has stopped me from caring much about it. its weird money is not really a issue as i waste so much on going out to dinner and other things but stopped gaming much, my encoding jobs with h265 dont seem to take to long.. best thing about the upgrade would be USB speed and bootdrive speed.
\
from the reviews ive seen the 2600 and 2600x clock so close to the same i think the 2600x was actually worse.
 

UsandThem

Super Moderator
Super Moderator
May 4, 2000
9,847
83
136
#13
I've been researching an upgrade to my i5 2500 over the past month because it has gotten too long in the tooth for gaming and is capping my framerates. I'm considering a 9600k, but likely a Ryzen consisdering the logevity of the AM4 platform. But from what I'm hearing, the NEXT Ryzen will be a huge leap over what they're putting out now. I tend to make the big purchases around black friday and december for the lower prices, but if something huge is on the horizon, should I wait? Are their next generation processors poised to be release at the same time next year as their 2 series launched this year? Or are we looking until well into 2020 until the cpu spaces moves to 7nm?
There's always something new / better / faster coming, so if you are ready to build now, go ahead.

If you build an AMD system, and the next CPU they release is absolutely amazing, you simply have to update your BIOS. The Black Friday pricing on the 2600X you posted in your other thread is hard too pass up if you're ready for a new system.
 
Jun 23, 2005
14,551
81
126
#14
The only difference between x and non-x is essentially factory clocks. There's practically no point buying the x-version when you can just up the multiplier and save some money. Overclocking is a trivial thing to do.
Can point precision bring a regular 2600 to the same 4.2ghz a 2600x can get to?
 
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UsandThem

Super Moderator
Super Moderator
May 4, 2000
9,847
83
136
#15
Can point precision bring a regular 1600 to the same 4.2ghz a 1600x can get to?
I think you mean the 2600 / 2600X, but from what I've seen, the automatic XFR 2.0 boost on this generation of Ryzen CPUs gives better performance in most tasks more than manually overclocking it does. It's usually not a big difference, but with the lower price of the 2600X on Black Friday, it would be the way I went if I were buying.

https://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/AMD/Ryzen_5_2600/19.html

perfrel_cpu.png
 

UsandThem

Super Moderator
Super Moderator
May 4, 2000
9,847
83
136
#16

Spartak

Senior member
Jul 4, 2015
203
30
86
#17
Zen2 will hit around the same time as Intel's next gen, ~Q4 next year. So waiting another year if you feel the upgrade itch seems a waste of waiting.

If I were you I'd look for a used 8600k. These can be found around ~$200 and can easily overclock up to 5GHz. In fact, that's my own plan right now.
 
Mar 20, 2010
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#18
If your plans are gaming, then I would buy the i5-9600K right now instead of waiting for the next-gen Ryzen next year. Intel Core processors have higher single-core speeds than Ryzen, and that makes them more suitable for gaming. I am still not sure what exactly will be the benefits of AMD moving to 7nm next year. They will of course get better power management, higher speeds, and perhaps a higher core count. But Intel is still too far ahead of AMD in terms of single-core performance. Unless AMD increases the single core speed of its processors by at least 20-25%, which is unlikely to happen even moving to 7nm, it will still lag behind Intel. A Core i5-9600K will probably have higher single core speeds than any Ryzen that AMD releases next year, and that is even before overclocking, in which Intel also seems to be clearly superior.
 
Apr 27, 2000
10,192
112
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#19
But Intel is still too far ahead of AMD in terms of single-core performance. Unless AMD increases the single core speed of its processors by at least 20-25%, which is unlikely to happen even moving to 7nm, it will still lag behind Intel.
Bollocks. AMD needs to gain maybe 18% performance overall to achieve performance parity with Intel in gaming. Conservatively, AMD looks ready to gain ~13% IPC and ~7% clockspeed moving from the 2700x to a hypothetical Matisse replacement product. That would be more than enough to get AMD over the top. We haven't even discussed the potential gains from eliminating the interCCX communications penalties on current Ryzen/Ryzen+ systems or the possible 32Mb L3 cache per chiplet.
 

Spartak

Senior member
Jul 4, 2015
203
30
86
#20
Bollocks. AMD needs to gain maybe 18% performance overall to achieve performance parity with Intel in gaming. Conservatively, AMD looks ready to gain ~13% IPC and ~7% clockspeed moving from the 2700x to a hypothetical Matisse replacement product. That would be more than enough to get AMD over the top. We haven't even discussed the potential gains from eliminating the interCCX communications penalties on current Ryzen/Ryzen+ systems or the possible 32Mb L3 cache per chiplet.
Intel isn't standing still (well...they have but not forever) and has reiterated they will be ready with 10nm 10th gen Core for the next holiday season. AMD is rumored to have their Zen2 launch around the same time (19Q3 seems increasingly unlikely). So this will put Zen2 not against Skylake&sons but the next gen that appears to have an IPC increase of around 10-15%.
Since Core is already about 15% ahead Zen2 needs ~30% IPC increase for parity.

FWIW I think the ~13% IPC increase most people assume for Zen2 to be on the conservative side and based on what we already know I'm expecting something more in the 25-30% ballpark.

A 5GHz single core turbo seems unlikely for Zen2 so the 8th/9th gen Core will still be very competitive with the fastest Zen2 available late next year.
 
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Feb 23, 2017
306
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#21
So Intel have a 10nm processor (laughs) and it has 10-15% higher IPC than their best 14nm (despite saying that their 10nm will be worse than their 14nm)...?
This mythical 10th gen Intel 10nm CPU...lol.
 
Apr 27, 2000
10,192
112
126
#22
I don't see Matisse hitting in Q4 2019. That would be suicide. Have you been listening to Charley?

Intel may not have Icelake-S ready by that time, either. Just because they say they'll have 10nm 10th-gen Core ready doesn't mean it'll be on the desktop.
 

chrisjames61

Senior member
Dec 31, 2013
215
11
101
#23
I have a R5 2400G and a R5 1600. My boards are the X370 Gaming Titanium and a Crosshair VI Hero. I want to ditch the ASUS board and get a Taichi and a 2700X.
 

Spartak

Senior member
Jul 4, 2015
203
30
86
#24
So Intel have a 10nm processor (laughs) and it has 10-15% higher IPC than their best 14nm (despite saying that their 10nm will be worse than their 14nm)...?
This mythical 10th gen Intel 10nm CPU...lol.
For someone laughing you sure have trouble understanding the difference between process (frequency) and architecture (IPC). (LOL)

My figures aren't pulled from thin air since there are already geekbench numbers out and discussed a few threads from this one. Try to inform yourself before displaying such an attitude next time.
 

chrisjames61

Senior member
Dec 31, 2013
215
11
101
#25
Intel isn't standing still (well...they have but not forever) and has reiterated they will be ready with 10nm 10th gen Core for the next holiday season. AMD is rumored to have their Zen2 launch around the same time (19Q3 seems increasingly unlikely). So this will put Zen2 not against Skylake&sons but the next gen that appears to have an IPC increase of around 10-15%.
Since Core is already about 15% ahead Zen2 needs ~30% IPC increase for parity.

FWIW I think the ~13% IPC increase most people assume for Zen2 to be on the conservative side and based on what we already know I'm expecting something more in the 25-30% ballpark.

A 5GHz single core turbo seems unlikely for Zen2 so the 8th/9th gen Core will still be very competitive with the fastest Zen2 available late next year.

And I pull rabbits out of my hats.........
 

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