Upgrade Input needed

[EndGame]

I have a dilema of sorts. A friend wants to upgrade their system and also purcahse/install Vista. The system they have now is as follows:

Asus A8N-E
AMD S939 X2 3800+
2GB DDR Mushkin H.P. PC4000
ATI X1800XL
Seasonic 500W P/S
300GB Samsung 7200rpm SATA
250GB Seagate 7200rpm SATA
80GB Seagate 7200rpm SATA
16X DVD-ROM Pioneer
Liteon DVD-RW
Antec Midtower Case (2X 120mm fans one front, one rear)
Tuniq Tower Chip Cooling

I built this sytem for them about 2/2.5 years ago and it's had no problems except the Northbridge cooler seems to need replacing every 8 months or so because of bearing noise.

Their reason for wanting an upgrade.......they want to move to Vista, they want a DX10 video solution and, since they work with pics and videos a LOT, they want to move to 4GB of ram.

Now, the down side. The guy's wife and kids are the ones actually wanting this and it's probably partially my fault because the kids spend a lot of time at my home with my kids on our systems which are "up to date" so to say. The guy is willing to do this but, wants to keep as much of his hardware as he can and wants to do this as cheap as possible while still affording good gaming for his kids and extra ram for the pics/videos. I told him he would need to move to a 64 bit OS and there may be problems with his software and he wasn't to happy about this either. Now I run 64bit Vista. Don't have 32 bit on any systems anymore and I believe I'm correct that even 32 bit Vista only addresses 2GB's of ram correct?

I've looked until my eyes are blurry for hardware on Newegg and elsewhere but am still unsure of what to advise him to do so......I decided to come to the guru's and get your input. Searched and really found no completely relevant threads so I'm hoping for some good solid input and what would be the best advise to give him and the cheapest way to upgrade him and still give him what he's looking for. Thanks!

EDIT: Oh, and BTW, the guy is partial to AMD (he owns stock) but it's not a "deal breaker" he says. I told him at this point in time AMD is a bit behind the curve as far as chips go and he would most likely get better performace with an Intel chip.......now I myslef have not built a new system with an AMD chip since the Core II duo's came around so, if I'm wrong, or it could save him money without a huge hit to performance, please, LMK.....

 

[MagnusTheBrewer]

Actually, Vista 32 bit can use 4 gb of ram. It's just that the OS will take a chunk of that for addressing (GPU memory and all drivers) so that the usable ram for applications will be about 3.5 gigs.

His machine is hardly a dinosaur and can easily run the latest games by simply upgrading the GPU. Again, his machine should have no problems running Vista and just needs a better Graphics card.

 

[EndGame]

Originally posted by: MagnusTheBrewer
Actually, Vista 32 bit can use 4 gb of ram. It's just that the OS will take a chunk of that for addressing (GPU memory and all drivers) so that the usable ram for applications will be about 3.5 gigs.

His machine is hardly a dinosaur and can easily run the latest games by simply upgrading the GPU. Again, his machine should have no problems running Vista and just needs a better Graphics card.

Makes sense as far as Vista 32 bit......I actually never took the time to look into it as I use and have used 64 bit since it came out with absolutely no problems.

That's basicly what I told him about the system they have. Thing is, he (or actually his wife and kids) is convinced he may as well upgrade the chip/ram/video to get the most longevity out of the system as long as they are moving to Vista......

 

[Blain]

* What editing programs does he have that functions better with DX10 over DX9?
* Exactly what software does he use that will perform much better using the extra 2GB of memory?

If he thinks he needs Vista, DX10 and the extra 2GB of memory, then he should have no problems going with Intel.
Just tell him he needs to go with Intel.

 

[MagnusTheBrewer]

If they want the latest and greatest, they would be much better served by getting a whole new machine. I would recommend getting a clearer picture of the budget they have before making any suggestions.

Do this, have them buy a better GPU and see if the resulting performance gains meets their needs. If that doesn't do it alone, you can still use the card in a newer machine.

 

[EndGame]

Originally posted by: Blain
* What editing programs does he have that functions better with DX10 over DX9?
* Exactly what software does he use that will perform much better using the extra 2GB of memory?

If he thinks he needs Vista, DX10 and the extra 2GB of memory, then he should have no problems going with Intel.
Just tell him he needs to go with Intel.

First, like I said, I don't believe going with Intel will be a big deal.........he simply owns AMD stock so his initial preference would be AMD for that reason alone.

I doubt he has ANY software which needs/requires DX10 although I can't say that and be 100% sure because I honestly don't know. I just warned him that moving to Vista 64 bit may cause some incompatability issues with some software.

They want the extra ram again, more than likely because they asked me what I have and my systems all have 4GB's of ram now. It can't hurt and if they're upgrading anyway with the price of ram, this would be a very small price to pay and it definately can't hurt.

 

[EndGame]

Originally posted by: MagnusTheBrewer
If they want the latest and greatest, they would be much better served by getting a whole new machine. I would recommend getting a clearer picture of the budget they have before making any suggestions.

Do this, have them buy a better GPU and see if the resulting performance gains meets their needs. If that doesn't do it alone, you can still use the card in a newer machine.

Along these lines, I do know this, he asked if it could be done under $500 and that's what I've been trying to put together figuring only new Motherboard/CPU/Ram/Video.

 

[MagnusTheBrewer]

If their upgrade history is every 2/2.5 years then, they would be better off sticking with their current MB and CPU, as a newer s775 MB is unlikely to be compatible with the CPU's and fsb of the newer DDR3 ram chips in another 2 years. With a budget of "under $500" get them a kick ass GPU and educate them about the realities of "future proofing."

 

[Blain]

If they can live with the old X2 a bit longer, MS will have Windows 7 out in 09 or 2010.

 

[EndGame]

Originally posted by: Blain
If they can live with the old X2 a bit longer, MS will have Windows 7 out in 09 or 2010.

Well, Vista is actually a given.......they're going to do that no matter what. I'm actually on the phone with the guy right now. He's not liking the video card only upgrade proposal. Just doesn't understand and nothing I say apparently will make him understand. He's got it in his head to upgrade the ram/chip/video when he moves to Vista and so far, there's no changing his mind.

Sounds like I'll be continuing my search for a Motherboard/Chip/Ram/Video Card........and for $500 or less to boot........

 

[MagnusTheBrewer]

Asus P5N-E ~$120
Asus EN8600GTS ~$150
E6600 ~$230
Total ~$500

It doesn't really sound like he needs more than 2 Gigs of ram. So, what are you getting out of this other than the delight of giving support for the rest of your life?

 

[EndGame]

Originally posted by: MagnusTheBrewer
Asus P5N-E ~$120
Asus EN8600GTS ~$150
E6600 ~$230
Total ~$500

It doesn't really sound like he needs more than 2 Gigs of ram. So, what are you getting out of this other than the delight of giving support for the rest of your life?

LOL! Actually, on the support end, I've been very lucky. Aside from the chipset cooler, I've had zero problems with the build they have. Precisely why I'm trying to be very choosey and careful about what I advise them to use since they're determined to upgrade now. As stated above, I do feel a bit at fault......their kids are at my house a lot and they go home and talk about my systems with Vista and blah, blah, blah that my systems have and of course, they're kids......they have to have it.

I'll take a look at what you suggest in your last post.......I do recall considering the board and chip but don't recall the card. Thanks!

 

[Blain]

Originally posted by: EndGame

Sounds like I'll be continuing my search for a Motherboard/Chip/Ram/Video Card........and for $500 or less to boot........

Considering that his PS is 2-2.5 years old, I would add a new one to the list of parts.
Convince him that adding a few bucks to the total will be well worth it in the long run.

MB - GIGABYTE GA-P35-S3G (a solid board with solid caps)
CPU - E4600 Allendale 2.4GHz (compromises must be made for the sake of the budget)
RAM - A-Data ADQVE1B16K (2 x 2GB kit) - ($20 rebate makes this deal sweet)
GPU - DIAMOND Viper 3870 (3870PE4512SB) - (rebate sweetens the deal as well as VIVO for his home movies)
PSU - CORSAIR 450W (CMPSU-450VX) - (plenty of clean power for his new toy)

Newegg total after rebates and shipping = $510.10 (UPS 3 Day) :thumbsup::laugh:



some rebates expire 03/31, so hurry

 

[heyheybooboo]

It can't be done - the cost of WinV blows the deal.

For $300 you can upgrade the video and OS. Get a retail copy so you can move it to a new machine without a hassle.

You could OC the X2 3800+ to 2.3-2.4GHz - or if he really is an AMD fan - pop an Opty 180 in there and give him a little tweak to 2.7-2.8GHz.

Other than that. Dude. You need a Dell

 

[EndGame]

Originally posted by: heyheybooboo
It can't be done - the cost of WinV blows the deal.

For $300 you can upgrade the video and OS. Get a retail copy so you can move it to a new machine without a hassle.

You could OC the X2 3800+ to 2.3-2.4GHz - or if he really is an AMD fan - pop an Opty 180 in there and give him a little tweak to 2.7-2.8GHz.

Other than that. Dude. You need a Dell

No, the cost of Vista is above the $500. We already have Vista on order and paid for......

 

[heyheybooboo]

Originally posted by: EndGame

Originally posted by: heyheybooboo
It can't be done - the cost of WinV blows the deal.

For $300 you can upgrade the video and OS. Get a retail copy so you can move it to a new machine without a hassle.

You could OC the X2 3800+ to 2.3-2.4GHz - or if he really is an AMD fan - pop an Opty 180 in there and give him a little tweak to 2.7-2.8GHz.

Other than that. Dude. You need a Dell

No, the cost of Vista is above the $500. We already have Vista on order and paid for......

Good News! Are you going to recylce the case, HDDs and optical drives?

Normally I would place a high priority on PSU replacement but that Seasonic 500w is a good 'un. Is it clean or nasty ?

AMD is losing the GHz war but has some excellent mobos and vid cards so it would help if you would fall one way or the other

 

[MarcVenice]

Wow for 500$ I could do a budget build, an upgrade is even easier ...

http://www.newegg.com/Product/...7031&Tpk=abit%2bip35-e 60$ mobo
http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16820211188 50$ for 2x2gb
http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16814127333 9600gt for 145$ totaly blows away the x1800xl

That's 255$ AR ? 50% of 500$ ...

That's it, no ? Could you give more info on the PSU ? I think the PSU will be just fine though, and does NOT need to be replaced. Replacing a 2 year old Seasonic PSU with 5 year warranty is nuts.

You could actualy buy a new HD for 70-100$, new case for 60$ or so, PSU for 55$ and almost have a complete new rig. Video-editing does NOT need a high-end videocard btw.

 

[Blain]

Originally posted by: MarcVenice
Wow for 500$ I could do a budget build, an upgrade is even easier ...

http://www.newegg.com/Product/...7031&Tpk=abit%2bip35-e 60$ mobo
http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16820211188 50$ for 2x2gb
http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16814127333 9600gt for 145$ totaly blows away the x1800xl

That's 255$ AR ? 50% of 500$ ...

$255 is true, but won't he also need a CPU?

 

[EndGame]

Originally posted by: heyheybooboo

Originally posted by: EndGame

Originally posted by: heyheybooboo
It can't be done - the cost of WinV blows the deal.

For $300 you can upgrade the video and OS. Get a retail copy so you can move it to a new machine without a hassle.

You could OC the X2 3800+ to 2.3-2.4GHz - or if he really is an AMD fan - pop an Opty 180 in there and give him a little tweak to 2.7-2.8GHz.

Other than that. Dude. You need a Dell

No, the cost of Vista is above the $500. We already have Vista on order and paid for......

Good News! Are you going to recylce the case, HDDs and optical drives?

Normally I would place a high priority on PSU replacement but that Seasonic 500w is a good 'un. Is it clean or nasty ?

AMD is losing the GHz war but has some excellent mobos and vid cards so it would help if you would fall one way or the other

They would like to reuse as much as possible. I'm figuring all optical drives and SATA Hard drives as well as the case. The whole system is completely clean. She is an immaculate house keeper and there's no appearance of dust or anything so I was thinking the Seasonic P/S should be a keeper also.

Like I said above, he'd like to stay with AMD in support of his stocks but, like I told him, chip wise, Intel is head and shoulders above AMD at this point. As far as video, yes, I was planning on using an ATI/AMD card.......

 

[EndGame]

Originally posted by: MarcVenice
Wow for 500$ I could do a budget build, an upgrade is even easier ...

http://www.newegg.com/Product/...7031&Tpk=abit%2bip35-e 60$ mobo
http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16820211188 50$ for 2x2gb
http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16814127333 9600gt for 145$ totaly blows away the x1800xl

That's 255$ AR ? 50% of 500$ ...

That's it, no ? Could you give more info on the PSU ? I think the PSU will be just fine though, and does NOT need to be replaced. Replacing a 2 year old Seasonic PSU with 5 year warranty is nuts.

You could actualy buy a new HD for 70-100$, new case for 60$ or so, PSU for 55$ and almost have a complete new rig. Video-editing does NOT need a high-end videocard btw.

Looking at your picks right now. As stated, I wasn't figuring on replacing the PSU as it should be more than sufficient. As far as the rest, I'm simply trying to give them the most "bang for their buck" and keep it around $500. If they think they need 4GB's of ram and a DX10 card........that's what they'll get! Far be it from me to try to pursuede them differently at this point. I'm not making a dime off this........they are good, reliable neighbors and I want to give them a good, reliable system. I rescued them about 2.5 years ago from Emachines h3ll........

 

[MarcVenice]

Originally posted by: Blain

Originally posted by: MarcVenice
Wow for 500$ I could do a budget build, an upgrade is even easier ...

http://www.newegg.com/Product/...7031&Tpk=abit%2bip35-e 60$ mobo
http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16820211188 50$ for 2x2gb
http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16814127333 9600gt for 145$ totaly blows away the x1800xl

That's 255$ AR ? 50% of 500$ ...

$255 is true, but won't he also need a CPU?

I knew I was forgetting something. So 100-150$ for a CPU. Totaling out at 355-405$. I wouldn't go Intel, because if you OC the x2 3800+ to 2.4ghz nothing is going to be a real step up from there, AMD wise. A 2.4ghz C2D is 25% faster then a 2.4ghz AMD K8 cpu though.

 

[Denithor]

Gotta say, MarcVenice recommendations plus an e4500 (2.2GHz, 2MB cache, free Lost Planet game) for $120 from ClubIT will make a blazing system for anything they can throw at it. And still about $100 below budget after MIR.

If you decide to overclock this thing the value goes up even higher. You should be able to hit ~3GHz completely stable with this setup without any problem.

Resell his old parts to recover some of the cost of the new stuff and the cost goes down even further.

 

[heyheybooboo]

Originally posted by: EndGame

Originally posted by: heyheybooboo

Originally posted by: EndGame

Originally posted by: heyheybooboo
It can't be done - the cost of WinV blows the deal.

For $300 you can upgrade the video and OS. Get a retail copy so you can move it to a new machine without a hassle.

You could OC the X2 3800+ to 2.3-2.4GHz - or if he really is an AMD fan - pop an Opty 180 in there and give him a little tweak to 2.7-2.8GHz.

Other than that. Dude. You need a Dell

No, the cost of Vista is above the $500. We already have Vista on order and paid for......

Good News! Are you going to recylce the case, HDDs and optical drives?

Normally I would place a high priority on PSU replacement but that Seasonic 500w is a good 'un. Is it clean or nasty ?

AMD is losing the GHz war but has some excellent mobos and vid cards so it would help if you would fall one way or the other

They would like to reuse as much as possible. I'm figuring all optical drives and SATA Hard drives as well as the case. The whole system is completely clean. She is an immaculate house keeper and there's no appearance of dust or anything so I was thinking the Seasonic P/S should be a keeper also.

Like I said above, he'd like to stay with AMD in support of his stocks but, like I told him, chip wise, Intel is head and shoulders above AMD at this point. As far as video, yes, I was planning on using an ATI/AMD card.......

AMD Athlon 64 X2 5400+ 2.8GHz Brisbane 65W $88
You may reuse the HSF if you choose

BIOSTAR A770 A2+ AMD 770 $68
Great budget board with HT 3.0 & PCIe 2.0 x16

BIOSTAR TA770 A2+ AMD 770 $80
This is good stuff - HT 3.0, PCIe 2.0 x16, Realtek ALC888, 2 eSATA (6 total)

GIGABYTE GA-MA770-S3 AMD 770 $85
If you need firewire - HT 3.0, PCIe 2.0 x16, Realtek ALC888, 2 x IEEE 1394a, DDR2 1066

CrossFire Mobo
MSI K9A2 CF-F AMD 790X $100
HT 3.0, 2 x PCIe 2.0 x16, Realtek ALC888, DDR2 1066
(Crossfire in PCIe 2.0 'x8-x8' - effective 'x16-x16' under PCIe1 standard)

You are 'in' for $160 - $190. The A-Data ram that Marc links notes AM2 certification so that gets you to $230 - $260 (minus a $20 rebate!)

Depending upon where you go from here ...

Card reader with usb ??
52-in-1 USB 2.0 Internal Card Reader w/ USB 2.0 $20
I've used a dozen or so of these - and they haven't let me down (knock on wood!)

or

Card reader with usb/firewire ??
Silverstone FP34-S USB 2.0 Firewire Card Reader $45
The mack daddie - can go better and cheaper here, however


That leaves you with either ...

SAPPHIRE Radeon HD 3850 512MB 256-bit GDDR3 PCI Express 2.0 $155 AR

or

SAPPHIRE Radeon HD 3870 512MB 256-bit GDDR4 PCI Express 2.0 $170 AR


Low end with no card reader - $385 (minus $40 rebates)
Upper end with card reader - $495 (minus $40 rebates)