Upgrade from Radeon X800XT

[kppanic]

Hello All,

I need some advice on upgrading my Radeon X800XT. My computer just entered its 4th year in its life-cycle and it is a P4 3.6GHz prescott =D

I plan to keep this computer till Jan 2009.

I am just wondering if there are any cards that could replace my X800XT, obviously looking for something a little bit faster and wouldn't be too much for my p4 3.6ghz.

Looking forward to answers,

Cheers!

 

[v8envy]

Is your motherboard AGP or PCIe? 2004 seems to imply AGP. If you've got PCIe, the 9600GT would be a perfect card for you (assuming you're not getting a 24" LCD any time soon) and is about $110 after rebate. Some users are reporting an HD3870 for $130 with no rebate at Best Buy.

If you're stuck on AGP, you can find the HD3750 for only a few tens of $ more. I'd recommend an entire system overhaul if you're still stuck with AGP. You could re-use a PCIe card with your next build, sell it, or use it in an HTPC. A relatively high performance AGP card not so much. Use the price premium of an AGP solution to get you closer to the real solution.

 

[kppanic]

Ah I should have added more detail on my first post =)

Yes, it is a PCIe system, full length at that.

Well if I got a new card this time I wouldn't try to push it through my next PC build, I would just use it for max 10 months and then give it away.

Would 9600GT be a nice upgrade from an X800XT?

I like to play CoD4 and my current Radeon seems to be a little slow on playing that game, running at 1024x768 with medium-high details.

Edit: I just look at 9600GT prices here in Canada. Why the heck is it around $180-200?!? I'd rather order it from the States if this is the case... $110 with rebate sounds reasonable, $180 certainly does not.

 

[v8envy]

9600GT or 8800GS would be about 4x the graphics oomph you have now. But more importantly they support the newer pixel shader specs which means they're hardware more suited to newer games.

Either would be plenty for low res gaming at its finest. Also check on 8800GT, 8800GTS and 9800GTX. They're a bit nicer than the first two cards, and probably worth the peace of mind step-up if the cost difference is not large. Also, if you're truly buying a temporary card to throw away, an 8600GT for $50ish AR may not be a bad way to fly -- about double your current GPU power at low res in new games, and cheaper than a tank of gas.

 

[kppanic]

Cheers for an awesome response =)

Well at these gas prices, most things are cheaper than a tank of gas, and I see you've got a 5.0 engine =)

I will most likely consider gettnig an 8600GT for now, seems like an awesome deal, about double GPU power of what I have now is exactly what I am looking for. I just hope that my CPU is not a bottleneck.

 

[Termie]

Actually, I'm going to have to caution you on the 8600gt. I'm not sure I agree that it's twice the power of the x800xt. I had an x800xt, which I damaged and replaced with a 7600gt. The 7600gt is actually slower on a number of games, and the 8600gt is only a small step up from the 7600gt. Take a look at the VGA Charts at tomshardware.com. It includes data for both the x800xt and the 8600gt (select "view all" at the bottom of the page).

I would strongly recommend the 8800gs or 9600gt, even for a temporary card. If you go any cheaper, you really won't see the difference. The x800xt was an excellent card, and it took a few generations for the low-end to truly surpass it.

 

[kppanic]

Hmmm...

How about a 8600GTS??

I really don't need 8800 series as I am not going to be needing DirectX 10 support until my next PC,

how does 8600GTS perform vs 8800GS?

I used tom's vga chard to compare some video cards and 8600GTS seems to be where it's at.

 

[v8envy]

8600GTS is just a slightly overclocked 8600GT. You're not going to get one for $50, and if you're spending closer to $100 the 8800GS or 9600GT is as mentioned at least twice as fast worst case.

While you're right re: 8600GT being slightly faster than a 7600GT, it (as well as the 7600GT) does contain support for shader model 3.0 and has enough firepower to use it. At low res it's quite a bit faster -- it'll match a 7900GT in lots of titles, outperforming it in some of the new ones. So in new titles -- yes, twice the performance. At high res or with FSAA it starts to falter very very VERY VERY badly, but stands quite well as a low res budget gaming card. Emphasis on 'disposable' and 'budget.'

Slower in games (and on tom's vga charts) may be because the X800XT is NOT using SM3.0 features while the 7600GT and up is.

 

[error8]

It's something like this: 8800GS >>>>>>>> 8600 GTS. You can't even compare these cards. The 8600 series suck** big time in terms of gaming. They were good for HTPC or internet browsing , but not for playing games.

 

[kppanic]

Well I'm looking for an X800XT replacement, and it's almost 4 years old. I mean, it's a great card, so it's hard to top it off, but it's starting to show its age.

ALL i am concerned right now, or

what I need in terms of performance is this:

I want to be able to play CoD4 at 1024x768 without having to sacrifice detail.
I know my system is old and am not expecting it to run it at 1900x1200,

but at least I would like to be able to distinguish between grass foliage and enemies that are far away.

Any card that would top the x800xt about 1.5 times I would be happy with.

I read that 8800GS is a great card, and that 8600GT doesn't really outperform X800 in some areas, so I am very confused... 8600GTS seems to be on the mark with the price and all (as I am looking for a card to literally give away in 10 months)

 

[hooflung]

I have an 8800GS that replaced a 7800GT/X1900GT in my linux rig ( I gave the 7800gt to a m8 and slapped in the x1900 before it broke ) and the 8800GS is night and day in terms of performance. The 8600GTS is a very hot card to just barely perform up to a 7800GT/x1900 level. The P4 3.6 still has enough spunk left in it to push an 8800GS and your next pc you can reuse the 8800GS as a physics card.

Do not buy the 8600GTS. Its like 20 bucks cheaper than a 8800GS and about 45% less speed.

 

[kppanic]

Thanks for the response all;

Well it seems as though here in Canada 8800GS is a rare commodity (i can only order through Tigerdirect.CA AND it's about $170 with $30 mail-in rebate which comes out to $140 + shipping of $20.)

Ahhh... I might just pour water all over my current PC and use it as an excuse to get a brand new one haha...

Gotta find that 8800GS....

 

[s44]

Get this 9600GT then. Even faster, less power draw, etc.

 

[v8envy]

9600GT is also a 8800GS equivalent. As I said, also look for 8800GT and 8800GTS. Or ATI HD3870 or 3850 with 512 megs of ram -- whichever is cheapest.

The 8600GTS is only a consideration for a $50 'upgrade.' Half the cost, half the performance. And plenty for 1024x768 -- it was designed for low res gaming. Too bad mainstream moved up to 16x10 LCDs while NV wasn't looking. An 8800 card is overkill for 10x7 except for possibly Crysis. And even then, a single core P4 will be more of a handicap. Check what the OP is writing -- his target game appears to be running the SM2.0 codepath, yielding asstastic image quality where enemies are indistinguishable from foliage. It's not the FPS that's the problem. Same level of performance but modern image quality should be good. 6600GT is minimum spec for COD4, and a SM3.0 capable card is (7800GT) is recommended.

Also check to see that your PSU has PCIe connectors and enough juice to power a 8800 (or 3870) level card. If it's priced anywhere near $100 by all means utterly ignore the 8600GT or 8600GTS (same card, higher clocks).

 

[geokilla]

Originally posted by: kppanic
Thanks for the response all;

Well it seems as though here in Canada 8800GS is a rare commodity (i can only order through Tigerdirect.CA AND it's about $170 with $30 mail-in rebate which comes out to $140 + shipping of $20.)

Ahhh... I might just pour water all over my current PC and use it as an excuse to get a brand new one haha...

Gotta find that 8800GS....

NCIX has the 9600GT for $150 AR. Tiger Direct has the 8800GT for $160 AR. Just price match the 8800GT at Canada Computers, but call ahead to make sure that they do price match. See if NCIX can price match it as well. They usually charge just the 5% GST tax and rarely do they charge provincial tax, depending on where you live.

You could try PMing at Future Shop or Best Buy as well, but it'll be a bit difficult since there's "specific steps" to get a successful price match there.

You should be able to run your games at around 1280X1024 considering the CPU that you have. Or you can just try and balance your budget and get a $1000 or so computer.

BTW, Canada Computers has the same $30 mail in rebate for the 8800GT that Tiger Direct has.

 

[darckhart]

don't forget about buying used. i moved from a 6800gt to a 7950gt last june for about $100 USD; i'm sure you could get something in that class for MUCH less now. or you could even put the pressure on someone looking to get rid of 1st gen 8800gts 320/640 for cheap. however, if you desire new, i'd say a better way to look at it is how much per month you're willing to settle for and 10 months is not a lot of time especially when you're not looking to play any newer titles.

 

[kppanic]

Hello all;

thanks for all the advice,

at NCIX.com I found 9600GT for $129.99CDN and 8800GS(550mhz) for $139.99... At this point I am probably going to pick the 9600GT for being $10 cheaper and carry it on to the next system for a bit, and then use it for physics or something at which point I'll pick up a better graphics card.

This would most definitely satiate my requirement to run CoD4 with 1024x768 with most details on, and most importantly, be able to tell apart between grass and enemies =)


Edit: Ahh nevermind, the $129.99 9600GT only has one video output... I'll be picking up the 8800GS instead...

 

[PingSpike]

You're running into what seems to be becoming a common problem. Newer budget cards have more punch when it comes to shaders, but have their balls cut off when it comes to just plain old horsepower.

The high end x8x0 cards were pretty awesome for older titles. I have the same kind of problem with my wife's x850xt...I bought the card for $70, but its hard to find something new that packs the same punch when she plays older games. If you don't need SM3, its a pretty awesome card STILL.

This is a constrast it seems to days past, it seemed like when you bought a new midrange card you could count on it to at least perform as well as the old high end one in old games. No so much! You can get a rough idea of what is happening by looking at the wikipedia entries on the stats of the cards. Shader power keeps going up, but the cards have stagnated on the old stuff, just pushing textures around. This explains why the 8600 cards are so crap in old games, but do pretty well in new ones. They're just making cards that do what the market wants...but if you're looking for a cheaper new card to play old games faster...its not out there!

 

[kppanic]

Cheers for that comment,

you basically summed up what I wanted to say in more technical aspect.

X800XT is a great great card, IMO ATI's finest card ever to hit the market. (Reminds me of nVidia's Riva TNT) I still love it, and does everything fine except when I play CoD4, which is the game I will be playing for at least half a year more.

I seem to have no better choice than to pick up an 8800GS, and v8envy and others have helped me a lot in my decision.

Perhaps it was an impossible thing to pick up a cheap card that would top off my X800XT within the given budget of $80-$100.

I've played around with some numbers and one particular benchmark in 3dmark's page gave me a nice set of numbers:
i compared two systems, both p4 3.6, 2gb ddr2, winxp;
mine was x800xt, and
other was 8800gs

i hit about 2000 in 3dmark06 and the other system hit about 5500 in the same benchmark.

I think picking up a 8800GS for ~$150 is a good investment for me for the remaining 10 months, and as hooflung pointed out, I can use the card as a PPU when I get a new system.

Again, cheers all for all your help!

 

[v8envy]

Excellent choice, the 8800GS would be my pick for a budget system today. It can overclock to near 8800GTS performance (at resolutions < 1600x1200), and the lower amount of ram is not as much of an issue at low resolutions. For use as a future PPU it certainly seems optimal. It should also sell for not much less than you paid for it today in 10 months, or be eminently usable in a hand-me-down system.

BTW, I consider the 8800 series the modern day 9700. They've been the top performer for a long time, and have recently become very inexpensive. People with these cards in their rigs should be able to continue gaming on them for another 2-3 years.

Oh, and 3dmark is very cpu dependent. I'm not sure you can draw the conclusion of "I'll only get 2.5 the performance" from 3dmark -- remember that the x800xt can't do SM3.0, so it's running a different benchmark than the 8800GS. The real world difference in ability to crank settings will be far more dramatic.

 

[kppanic]

Oh wow... This tread is getting longer than it needed because of me haha

Final question:

9600GT for $183 or 8800GS@650MHz for $171??

Edit:

(not that the price matters any more at this point, just performance wise)

 

[geokilla]

Err, Tiger Direct has EVGA 8800GT for $169.99? They also have the 8800GS Superclocked for $140.99. These prices are all after rebate though.

 

[Lithan]

@ same price, 9600gt, no question. There's only one person on the entire face of planet Earth who thinks the 8800gs is faster than the 9600gt.

 

[kmmatney]

There have been some great deals on the ATI HD3870 as well lately - this card is very nice and draws low power. The EVGA 8800GT for $169 is a great price as well.

 

[myocardia]

Originally posted by: geokilla
Err, Tiger Direct has EVGA 8800GT for $169.99?

Yeah, but why would he care what price an American can pay for an 8800GT? The cheapest 8800GT in Canada is ~$240, after MIR.

kppanic, if money is really tight for you, and having a card whose fan runs at 100%, 100% of the time doesn't bother you (they aren't quiet, and even RivaTuner can't change the fan speed), you could grab one of these XFX 8800GS's for ~$130 after MIR. If you can afford the extra $45, though, I'd recommend the 9600GT.