Upgrade advice for REALLY old hardware

[LxMxFxD4]

I'm upgrading my 3+ year old computer today, or at worst.. this week. This is my old (created september 2005) rig:

Run Windows XP 32bit with latest updates
AMD X2 3800+ O/C to 2.4ghz, Socket 939
Asus A8N-SLI Premium MOBO (dual pci-e slots)
2GB (4x512MB) PC3200 RAM with crap specs
16x DVD burner
4x Raid array 300GB maxtor drives (3+ years old drives now)
2x IDE 160GB drives (run my OS and for data I dont "need")
$20 Sound card
GeForce 8800GT (600mhz core one I think) - Added January 2008
Antec Earthwatts 430W PSU - Added January 2008

I THINK thats all the important details. So this is what im looking to upgrade and why:

CPU
MOBO
Memory
Possibly the raid array due to age of HDs

The problem is I don't know where to start. I don't want a quad core because based on what I've seen, I'd have to have a new PSU as they suck TONS of power. I use this rig for a lot of CS3 and the only game I play is Warcraft, so dual core would be just fine.

Other caveat is.. I have 800GB of storage on my raid array.. and the raid controller is the onboard one on my MOBO.. so I doubt I can buy a new mobo with the exact same controller (and thus I'd have to transfer it all to a temp drive of some kind or something before moving it to a new system with a new raid controller). But if someone has a more elegant solution, please let me know.

Also, one last quick question - if I just added another 8800GT (they're only $100 now) would I see a ton of increase of performance in warcraft?

Thanks for all advice guys!

EDIT: I probably will NOT overclock this new system.

 

[Kraeoss]

Cpu :E8400

Mobo: MSI P7N SLI Platinum
or

ASUS P5N-D
if youre gonna sli, decent raid or this if you chose single card

ASUS P5Q SE
all these are great boards

Memory: Gskill 4 GIG kit 2 x 2

hope this gives you an idea as to your upgrade this pick will run as is quite good and u can always oc later on if mor speed is needed.

also i really cant say how much boost in warcraft another 8800 will give you but in more graphic intensive games it will give about a 30-35 % boost.

you can also pick up 1-2 of these

 

[Concillian]

quads don't suck that much power really, especially the 45nm ones.

I'm willing to bet a Q9550 on a P45 board would use less power than your overclocked x2 3800+ on a nForce4. nForce4 was not exactly a power miser chipset. And while the Athlon64s were better for power usage compared with the prescotts at the time, the 45nm intel Core2 processors are that much better than the Athlon64s were.

Based on what you say you do (Photoshop + WoW) I'd say a Q9550 (~$320) + 8GB (~$80-100 for 4 2GB sticks) + P45 (~$100-130) mobo then do whatever you need on the storage side of things would be your best bet. You'd want to go to a 64 bit OS to support all the RAM, likely Vista.

I'd replace the 3 year old drives if you have important data on that RAID. Drives are made with an assumed 5 year assumed lifespan. If your upgrade cycles are 3 years, you'd really be pushing those drives. Also I'd really recommend quad if your upgrade cycle is 3+ years. Neither AMD nor Intel have new duals on their roadmap for desktops. It's quads from here on out. 3 years from now all the software that doesn't currently benefit from quad vs. dual will.

I doubt you'll see a big boost in WoW with SLi. From my experience an 8800GT should have it pretty maxed out. I run reasonably well with a 7900GT and full video options. My machine withan ATi HD4850 runs it full options and max AA quite well. But my viewport is only 1280x1024. If you're running a 30" screen it's probably a different story. You didn't mention your resolutions or screen size.

Just to reiterate, quads are TDP at 95W, they aren't going to use more than that (and the 45nm ones are typically considerably under this). Your 8800GT has 105W TDP. drives are liek 10W max. P45 boards are like 35-40W tops. So you're looking at ~300W usage in a pretty worst case scenario. All of these are never going to be fully loaded at the same time, and TDP generally overestimates actual max load you can see in a real-world scenario. You have plenty of headroom on a 430W to get whatever stock processor you want.
So anyway, that's what I'd personally do in your situation. Q9550 / 8GB / P45 / Vista x64 / 4 640 GB or 1TB drives in 0+1

 

[Denithor]

Asus P5Q Pro combo page
G.Skill 2x2GB DDR2-1000 $55
WD Caviar Black 1TB HDD $140

Choose either the combo with the Q9550 ($400) or the E8400 ($250). The motherboard also has a $15MIR to reduce the price even further. Add the memory and HDD and you're done for $580 (quad) or $430 (dual). The single drive is big enough to plug into your existing rig and copy the entire raid array.

You are going to be amazed how quiet and cool this setup will be compared to your current system.

 

[LS8]

A three year old box is really old?

 

[LxMxFxD4]

Originally posted by: LS8
A three year old box is really old?

I did this largely to get attention

To the rest of you guys, thanks so much! Especially Con, for typing all of that out. I'm leaning toward the e8400 for dual, but kinda eyeing the quad setup. My upgrade cycle is indeed 3 years. Well, 3 years, 2 months as of this one, exception being video card, which I do every 2 years based on my needs.

As for quad versus dual, I thought I saw a stat that each core used 95W at full load. Yes, I doubt I'll ever use 4 cores at full load, but who knows. Its not 95W for all 4 cores right? that would seem.. impossible.

As for my data.. yeah its a simple solution. Just buy a big enough single drive to copy all data, then reassemble my raid array on new box with new controller. Use the new super huge capcity HD for my OS.

One last thing: Would a 64Bit OS really be necessary? I like XP - its stable as hell and I've used it for years and years. Also, plan on only getting 4GB of ram.

Thanks much again!

 

[error8]

Originally posted by: LxMxFxD4


As for quad versus dual, I thought I saw a stat that each core used 95W at full load. Yes, I doubt I'll ever use 4 cores at full load, but who knows. Its not 95W for all 4 cores right? that would seem.. impossible.

4X95W = 380W for a frickin cpu!!!!!!!! Don't you think it's a bit much? That kind of heat is impossible to dissipate. Most of the quads today are around 120W mark, for the WHOLE chip.
I guess that 95W is the TDP of a G0 Q6600 and the most power hungry is the Phenom 9950 with 140W.

 

[Idontcare]

Originally posted by: error8
4X95W = 380W for a frickin cpu!!!!!!!! Don't you think it's a bit much? That kind of heat is impossible to dissipate. Most of the quads today are around 120W mark, for the WHOLE chip.
I guess that 95W is the TDP of a G0 Q6600 and the most power hungry is the Phenom 9950 with 140W.

Just to add emphasis to the post, that 95W TDP for the entire Q6600 quad with all four cores fully loaded, and 140W for the X4 with all four cores fully loaded.

TDP's (and ACP's) are reported for the entire socket, not per die within the package or any other sub-section therein.

 

[Concillian]

TDP is for the whole thing.

the 45nm C2Qs are all 95W TDP, except the Extreme. You can see TDP on the newegg specification page, intel's own documentation, various reviews, etc...

Here is the Anandtech article showing power usage of the 45nm quads.
http://www.anandtech.com/cpuch...howdoc.aspx?i=3184&p=2

They are showing their tests at full load on a 45nm C2Q is putting out ~55W at 3.0 GHz. So a Q9550 will be right around there, actually slightly less. The 45nm CPUs don't use much power at all. As I said before, you will be using similar, and maybe even less power than you are using right now with your X2 3800+. Especially when you consider that the P45 chipset uses less power than the NF4

If you do significant CS3 work, you will see benefit today from a quad. That's why my advice was to go quad. Don't skip quad just because of power usage, they don't use nearly as much power as you think.

 

[Flipped Gazelle]

Originally posted by: Concillian
If you do significant CS3 work, you will see benefit today from a quad. That's why my advice was to go quad. Don't skip quad just because of power usage, they don't use nearly as much power as you think.

CS3 doesn't really take advantage of quad.

That said, if you use other programs while in CS3, you may see a benefit.

 

[Concillian]

foot --> mouth. Sorry. I thought all modern video and photo editing software did. This makes the dual vs. quad core thing a lot different in his case.

 

[LxMxFxD4]

Yep from what I read CS3 uses 2 cores but not 4. Maybe CS4 uses all 4? If thats the case I would consider upgrading to CS4 even.

Regardless, I'm going to go with the quad core, after resolving the power issue. Its $150 extra, and the total price tag will be $90 more than I wanted to spend, but I think I'll probably get 3 years outta the cpu.

Going to stick with windows XP though, and 4GB of ram. Unless someone can tell me why vista is really that much better. As for the ram, Even with 2GB I never approach using htat much on XP... dunno. Wish I could get rid of swap file altogether with 4GB

 

[Denithor]

If you need serious speed in Photoshop follow these steps. Make sure you get the Plus version of the software which enables access to >3GB of RAM in XP 32-bit.

1) Build a rig with 8GB DDR2.
2) Buy Ramdisk Plus 9
3) Set up a 5GB ramdisk.
4) Point your scratch disk onto your new ultra-fast ramdisk.
5) Enjoy some much faster CS3 performance.

And check out these power consumption charts which should explain a lot.

 

[Idontcare]

Originally posted by: Denithor
If you need serious speed in Photoshop follow these steps. Make sure you get the Plus version of the software which enables access to >3GB of RAM in XP 32-bit.

1) Build a rig with 8GB DDR2.
2) Buy Ramdisk Plus 9
3) Set up a 5GB ramdisk.
4) Point your scratch disk onto your new ultra-fast ramdisk.
5) Enjoy some much faster CS3 performance.

And check out these power consumption charts which should explain a lot.

Should be a sticky. Seriously.

Especially with folks buying these 6 dimm socket i7 boards where 12GB setups become an easy reality.

 

[magreen]

+1 for sticky. I was wondering myself howto setup a software ramdisk. Thanks deni.

 

[Dadofamunky]

I'd get the quad. This is a great time to buy. You will not BELIEVE the difference. The Athlon box you built is very solid, but the new stuff will scream.

Vista is a lot more solid since SP1 came out. Also, XP will not use all 4 GB. But if the RAM disk solution works under 32-bit XP, then there's no reason for you to switch!

I wouldn't bother buying a second 8800GT, though. Get something newer. Then again, it's not my wallet that's getting opened...

 

[myocardia]

Originally posted by: Dadofamunky
But if the RAM disk solution works under 32-bit XP, then there's no reason for you to switch!

It does, at least with the software that Denithor linked.

Originally posted by: LxMxFxD4
Yep from what I read CS3 uses 2 cores but not 4. Maybe CS4 uses all 4? If thats the case I would consider upgrading to CS4 even.

CS4 still doesn't benefit from more than 2 cores. The big difference between CS3 and CS4 is that they've added CUDA to CS4, allowing you to run CS4 on your 8800GT (or any other nVidia card that's at least as new as an 8800GT). So, upgrading from your 2.4 Ghz X2 to an E8400 will give you ~twice the speed. Using a RAM drive, along with a new motherboard that will allow you to use a RAM drive, will be ~2.5-3x as fast as an E8400-based system that uses a hard drive as the scratch disk, or 5-6x as fast as your current system. Here's the kicker, though: adding CS4 and your 8800GT to the mix should, in theory, make it 5-10x faster than it already had become, somewhere in the neighborhood of 25-30x as fast as your current system.

 

[pugh]

Originally posted by: LS8
A three year old box is really old?

Same thing I thought

Heck that box makes an excellent WHS or Server box.

 

[Assimilator1]

The problem is I don't know where to start. I don't want a quad core because based on what I've seen, I'd have to have a new PSU as they suck TONS of power

Not true, I've got a Q6600 o/ced 3.35 GHz with an Antec TPII 430 PSU & it's nowhere near maxing it out. Last time I tested it, admitidly @ 3GHz, with all 4 cores loaded it was drawing 225w from the wall, even adding ~45w for which I know the X9150 Pro draws under full load it's still well under.
Having said that it doesn't look like you need a quad core anyway, it would probably be a waste of money, btw I thought you said you were upgrading a really old rig?

Also, one last quick question - if I just added another 8800GT (they're only $100 now) would I see a ton of increase of performance in warcraft?

I doubt it, unless they've massivley upgraded the graphics recently or you're planning on running at a higher res, but I'll defer to someone who actually plays it.

Concillian
3 years from now all the software that doesn't currently benefit from quad vs. dual will.
Yea but 3yrs from now quads will also be much cheaper or quicker for the same price. I still think he'd be wasting his money buying one now for what he does. Unless I'm missing something? (maybe I am, what's CS3?).

 

[LxMxFxD4]

Before I pull the trigger on $600 worth of upgrades though, the new i7 comes out TOMORROW (monday). Any ideas on whether I should wait for that? Or, wait for it to come out and watch the older stuff drop in price?

Thanks again!

 

[LxMxFxD4]

Originally posted by: LxMxFxD4
Before I pull the trigger on $600 worth of upgrades though, the new i7 comes out TOMORROW (monday). Any ideas on whether I should wait for that? Or, wait for it to come out and watch the older stuff drop in price?

Thanks again!

Can anyone comment on this?

 

[nyker96]

if you going to be using for a long time and not OCing, maybe get a Q9550 or Q9650, so you don't need to upgrade cpu anytime soon. if you play a ton of games why not just sell that 8800gt replace with 4870.

 

[GEOrifle]

They are allready here.

LGA 1366 :
http://www.newegg.com/Product/...545356&name=LGA%201366


CPU's Core i7 :

http://www.newegg.com/Product/...0744915&name=Core%20i7

I don't think much people will upgrade now because Cristmas is coming and people losing
jobs like crazy this days.

By the way i still like my PIV PRESCOT system and will hold another year. First i need to by nice HDTV, PC on second place.

 

[Dadofamunky]

Originally posted by: LxMxFxD4

Originally posted by: LxMxFxD4
Before I pull the trigger on $600 worth of upgrades though, the new i7 comes out TOMORROW (monday). Any ideas on whether I should wait for that? Or, wait for it to come out and watch the older stuff drop in price?

Thanks again!

Can anyone comment on this?

My thoughts? I wouldn't. Man, with CUDA support on NVidia cards with CS4 plus a faster CPU for lower price, cheaper RAM, and the prospect of an exponential increase on a proven platform with far less debugging in the pipeline for the things you're now doing, a Q9550 is probably the better buy. Others may disagree.

Myocardia is right. That is a very attractive prospect.

 

[faxon]

the i7 is out today man. check mwave.com for the current lowest prices (that i have seen) on the net. i7 920 for $289, MSI X58 PLATINUM for $215, and $256 for one of several 6gb (3x2gb) memory kits. it probably isnt worth it for your budget for obvious reasons though, esp since if you need the extra scratch disk space you can get cheap DDR2 for dirt cheap right now just about anywhere.