Updating from Point and Shoot to DSLR

[thecoolnessrune]

Hey everybody. I currently have an 8MP Samsung S850 point and shoot with a 5x optical zoom. While using it originally it was great, but I find myself growing more and more tired of the limitations of the camera. I want to grow into something more advanced. I need something that will enable me to grow with the camera as well as something that can support Image Stabilization (hopefully in camera rather than in lense). The A300 was something that I was particularly interested in because most of my shots are very quick and spur-of-the moment and not having to focus in on the viewfinder is simply another second saved.

Is there any good suggestions for those looking to get into the DSLR world? I mostly like some distance on my camera (though I doubt to the point of telephoto). Any good kit cameras that would give me some decent zoom?

 

[Heidfirst]

If you want a DSLR with the fastest focussing in LiveView then the Sony A300/A350 are currently the best by far as they use a somewhat different system than the other manufacturers.
If you get more into photography though you may find that you use the LCD less & the viewfinder more, I imagine that most people with Live View DSLRs probably use it less than 5% of the time (there will always be exceptions though).

1 of the beauties of a DSLR is that you can get the lens(es) that suit your needs/wants/budget rather than what comes bundled with the body.

Anyway, get to a shop & handle the various manufacturers' cameras, try them with a few lenses to see what gives you the sort of range that you want & take it from there.

 

[thecoolnessrune]

The only problem with that is I'm a college student in a backwards town with nowhere to go. We don't have any dedicated photoshops within 100 miles, and the best we have is a Staples 30 miles away. I've played with the Nikon D40 alot and didn't even use the LCD on the camera's I've tried (Canon XSi, Nikon D40, D60) because I just felt more comfortable using the viewfinder. I figured maybe the Live View might help me shave a second or two because I'm more of an impromptu picture taker. I can't say I'd ever use the camera in an environment where I can set up a tripod so on and so forth. My shots are pretty much always spur of the moment.

I'm tired of my point and shoot always messing up the shot with its horrid automatic settings and the manual settings are an outright atrocity to set. So I was thinking the best route would be to get a DSLR that I can learn the settings of, and then with a few button presses I can be ready for a shot, rather than waiting for my camera to boot up, and managing its horrible settings layout to set up for a manual shot.

I'm a complete photoshop "newb" so I imagine I would never really crop images. So high megapixel count isn't really that important to me. Is the Nikon D40 a good buy or is it's 6MP sensor beginning to get long in the tooth for the price? I don't own any lenses yet so I dont really have any allegiance to brand yet. My dad has a few old Nikon 35mm lenses I believe but I doubt they'd fit any modern camera.

EDIT: I should add that of the ones I've tried, I preferred the "feel" of the Nikon cameras the most. Second was a Pentax K20D. It felt really nice in my hands with the kit lens. The Canon XSi probably fealt the least comfortable to me. To get to everything and balance the camera the way I like to it felt kind of odd in my fingers, though that really could be just because I suck

 

[Muse]

Have you checked out the Pentax K200d? Seems like the ergonomics would be more to your liking, is feature laden, reasonable, but you might have problems finding one in a near by store for a hands-on evaluation. Have you seen the Sony A200 and A300?

 

[Zenmervolt]

Do not buy a camera that you have not held or tried first.

Personally, I don't find that looking through a viewfinder is any sort of time waster, but that may vary from person to person. If I were looking at a lower-end Sony, I would be looking at the A200 instead since, to me, Live View isn't important. That said, I also believe that Sony has the best implementation of Live View currently on the market.

Overall though, I would suggest that you handle any camera you are considering first and choose the one that feels the best in your hands.

ZV

 

[thecoolnessrune]

Well my favorite one I've held is the D60. The D40 seemed a little small for my hands and the D90 was kid of overwhelming with buttons so on and so forth. I haven't held a K200d or any Sony.

I had considered purchasing a D-60 and an 18-200mm VR lense. VR is very important to me as 100% of my shots would be without a tripod and from fairly length distances. I figured perhaps I'd try to save some money with ebay's live cashback. I considered the 18-55mm and 55-200mm kit lenses but they dont have VR so I'd rather not have that.

 

[Flipped Gazelle]

The thing about the Nikon D40/60 is that it lacks an internal focus motor. What this means is that only specially designed lenses will auto-focus with the D40/D60 - all other lenses will be manual focus. This may

Pentax, Sony & Olympus produce DSLRs that have image stabilization built-in. Canon and Nikon use lens-based stabilization, which is reputedly better, but of course only available in select lenses which are heavier and more expensive than their non-IS/VR equivalents.

Don't feel overwhelmed by all the buttons on the D90 - you don't have to use them all! As you grow in skill, you may be thankful you have them.

As for being a "photoshop newb"... don't worry about it. Cropping a shot is easy and sometimes necessary. You'll get it in no time. It's making tasteful crops that's the problem.

 

[soydios]

used D50 instead of a new D40, any day.

 

[Kelvrick]

If you're so newbish, you can always learn. That, or elements will probably serve you very well.

 

[ElFenix]

i don't think taking a snap shot in live view is necessarily any faster than taking a snap shot in regular. depending on the behavior of the camera, taking photos at various intervals while leaving the camera on may actually take longer with live view if the camera has to 'prep' itself when coming out of sleep. with my 40D i'll just leave the power switch in the 'on' position and let it go to sleep. then it is ready with a quick push of the shutter button. i don't know how fast sony's live view can wake itself up but it's hard to imagine it'd be any faster. the tiny size of the A300's finder is such a turn off. like zenmervolt, i prefer the A200 to either the A300 or A350.

 

[Muse]

Originally posted by: ElFenix
i don't think taking a snap shot in live view is necessarily any faster than taking a snap shot in regular. depending on the behavior of the camera, taking photos at various intervals while leaving the camera on may actually take longer with live view if the camera has to 'prep' itself when coming out of sleep. with my 40D i'll just leave the power switch in the 'on' position and let it go to sleep. then it is ready with a quick push of the shutter button. i don't know how fast sony's live view can wake itself up but it's hard to imagine it'd be any faster. the tiny size of the A300's finder is such a turn off. like zenmervolt, i prefer the A200 to either the A300 or A350.

How do you feel about the Pentax k200d?

 

[Heidfirst]

Originally posted by: thecoolnessrune
Well my favorite one I've held is the D60. The D40 seemed a little small for my hands and the D90 was kid of overwhelming with buttons so on and so forth. I haven't held a K200d or any Sony.

the Sonys are a little larger than the D40/XSi etc. so probably would suit you but ideally you want to try before you buy or have a vendor that will let you exchange whatever you get if you get it & don't like it.
I don't think that there is a grip option for the D40/D40X/D60 whereas Canon, Pentax & Sony do if that's something that may concern you.

I had considered purchasing a D-60 and an 18-200mm VR lense. VR is very important to me as 100% of my shots would be without a tripod and from fairly length distances. I figured perhaps I'd try to save some money with ebay's live cashback. I considered the 18-55mm and 55-200mm kit lenses but they dont have VR so I'd rather not have that.

I thought that the D60's kit lens had VR?

the equivalent Sony lens to the 18-200mm VR would be the 18-250mm which is a pretty highly rated lens for what it is (any lens with these kinds of zoom range inevitably have compromises) & of course is stabilised on a Sony body via the in-body sensor stabilisation.
The A200 & A300 are essentially the same camera in terms of performance except the A300 has the fastest focusing DSLR LiveView going but pays the penalty for that with a poorer optical viewfinder. The A200 has a better optical viewfinder but of course no LiveView & is therefore noticeably cheaper.

 

[thecoolnessrune]

Originally posted by: Heidfirst

Originally posted by: thecoolnessrune
Well my favorite one I've held is the D60. The D40 seemed a little small for my hands and the D90 was kid of overwhelming with buttons so on and so forth. I haven't held a K200d or any Sony.

the Sonys are a little larger than the D40/XSi etc. so probably would suit you but ideally you want to try before you buy or have a vendor that will let you exchange whatever you get if you get it & don't like it.
I don't think that there is a grip option for the D40/D40X/D60 whereas Canon, Pentax & Sony do if that's something that may concern you.

I had considered purchasing a D-60 and an 18-200mm VR lense. VR is very important to me as 100% of my shots would be without a tripod and from fairly length distances. I figured perhaps I'd try to save some money with ebay's live cashback. I considered the 18-55mm and 55-200mm kit lenses but they dont have VR so I'd rather not have that.

I thought that the D60's kit lens had VR?

the equivalent Sony lens to the 18-200mm VR would be the 18-250mm which is a pretty highly rated lens for what it is (any lens with these kinds of zoom range inevitably have compromises) & of course is stabilised on a Sony body via the in-body sensor stabilisation.
The A200 & A300 are essentially the same camera in terms of performance except the A300 has the fastest focusing DSLR LiveView going but pays the penalty for that with a poorer optical viewfinder. The A200 has a better optical viewfinder but of course no LiveView & is therefore noticeably cheaper.

The A200 is starting to look much more tempting. As for the D60 kit, yes it does have VR, that was my mistake, I meant to say the D40x didn't have any VR kit lenses. I dont see a 18-250 kit lens. I only see an 18-70mm + 75-300mm kit for the A200. Got any links? The thought of in camera image stabilization looks cheaper in the long run, and opens up options of third party lenses while still getting image stabilization, whereas for Nikon there's very few VR lenses available that aren't Nikkor lenses.

 

[Jarska]

I can heartily recommend the A200. Excellent piece of equipment, and doesn't even break the bank.

 

[soydios]

For entry level, the A200 is probably your best bet. If you envision yourself seriously expanding into photography, or buying a lot of used lenses, then I would go with Nikon or Canon, because those companies offer lenses and other accessories that Olympus/Pentax/Sony do not. If you want to keep it just casual, then the A200 and that 18-70mm and 70-300mm will serve you well.

 

[Heidfirst]

Originally posted by: thecoolnessruneI dont see a 18-250 kit lens. I only see an 18-70mm + 75-300mm kit for the A200. Got any links?

Sony seems to have different marketing etc. in different parts of the world & indeed different bundled lenses with different bodies e.g. here in the UK you can buy an A350 bundled with the 18-250mm but I don't think that they do 1 with the A200 - mind you the lens is noticeably dearer than the A200 body so I guess that they assumed less demand for a kit made up that way.

There is an older 18-200mm design that you may find bundled with the A200 body but it's noticeably inferior to the 18-250mm so only consider it if you get it for a song.
The Sony 18-250mm is based on a Tamron design but with improvements & the general concensus is that the Sony is worth the extra if the budget allows.

 

[ElFenix]

Originally posted by: Muse

How do you feel about the Pentax k200d?

great ergonomics, probably the best finder of any of the entry/mid-entry SLRs, in body IS for all that old pentax glass, and weather sealed. only thing missing is live view.

pentax's lens lineup isn't as extensive as canikon's, (or even canikony's), but it has 90% of what anyone would need and has some ridiculously nice primes (pentax is only lacking in high end long zooms and 400+ primes, though canikony's are all film designs, pentax does have the 60-250 f/4 which resembles the 100-400 of old).

so, not my choice for birding but should be fine at everything else.

 

[GrJohnso]

Originally posted by: thecoolnessrune
The A300 was something that I was particularly interested in because most of my shots are very quick and spur-of-the moment and not having to focus in on the viewfinder is simply another second saved.

The quote above got me, as honestly, I find myself needing more time to setup a shot with liveview on my P&S cameras than through the viewfinder of a DSLR. Might be practice, but I honestly don't think one saves time over the other, and once you are use to the camera, you may find just the opposite....

Anyway, if you are really used to using liveview type functions in P&S cameras and think that'll make life easier, the a300 is a good call with the best implementation of yet yet.

However, I do like the a200 as best bang for the buck... That with a basic 18-70 kit lens should do you fine... You can find the Sony 70-300 basic zoom for as low as $99 these days too, to really insure you are well covered for around $500 total...

By investing so little in the body initially, it won't kill you as much when a year later, you've gotten hooked, and want to upgrade to something with significantly higher performance that will always come along.

But, as others have said, get to a shop and play with as many different cameras as you can. You need to feel comfortable using a camera. The best camera in the end will be the one you feel the most comfortable with, and use the most.

 

[soydios]

Originally posted by: thecoolnessrune
The A300 was something that I was particularly interested in because most of my shots are very quick and spur-of-the moment and not having to focus in on the viewfinder is simply another second saved.

You'll probably be able to compose faster using a viewfinder, IMHO. It's just more natural: what you see with your eye is what will be captured, not what you see on a screen; it's one less mental step to go through when composing.

The A200 has a much better viewfinder than the A300/A350, because it doesn't have Sony's Live View system.

 

[thecoolnessrune]

Hey again guys, I went to Albany and tested out a bunch of different camera including the Sony A200, A300, A350, Nikon D40x, D60, D90, D300, Canon 20D, 30D, XSi, 5D (yeah, that one is way out of league ), and the Pentax k200d (and got to hold a presale k2000).

Really big eye opener. Of what I felt comfortable with, I'd say I felt most at home with the Nikon D60. The Sony A200 had a killer price though, and felt really nice in my hands, I suppose the button layout was just a little "different" for me (I grew up around Nikon DSLR and Film SLR cameras, so I suppose I feel a little more comfortable with their "build")

In my personal desires, I think it comes down to the Sony A200 (W kit, so I get 18-70mm and 75-300mm) or the Nikon D60 with the 18-55mm 55-200mm VR lenses. The Sony is seeming really tempting to me. The lens reaches out further, is $100 less, and the first lens reaches out further before changeout than the Nikon setup. How do the lenses between Sony and Nikon compare? It also seems a really nice bonus that the Sony lenses will be cheaper, sense I dont have to worry about the extra money in VR. VR was a really nice feature on both. The only downside to the A200 kit is I'm not as used to the controls and it's obviously not as full featured as the D60.

What would you guys pick in the move from P&S?

 

[thegisguy]

I am just making the jump from P&S to DSLR as well. Not an answer to your question about Sony vs Nikon, but I just picked up a Canon XS with the kit lens on Dell for $480. Thought I would throw that out there.

Link to Deal

 

[ElFenix]

Originally posted by: thecoolnessrune
It also seems a really nice bonus that the Sony lenses will be cheaper, sense I dont have to worry about the extra money in VR.

:laugh:

VR was a really nice feature on both. The only downside to the A200 kit is I'm not as used to the controls and it's obviously not as full featured as the D60.

What would you guys pick in the move from P&S?

what do you mean not fully featured as the D60? the A200 has AE and WB bracketing, something the D60 doesn't.

 

[Flipped Gazelle]

Originally posted by: thecoolnessruneThe only downside to the A200 kit is I'm not as used to the controls and it's obviously not as full featured as the D60.

What would you guys pick in the move from P&S?

Don't know much about either camera, but how is the Sony A200 "not as full featured" as the Nikon D60?

As I stated earlier, if you get the D60, you will be restricted to a limited # of lenses that auto-focus due to the lack of in-camera focus drive with the D60. If that doesn't bother you, then great, but if you are looking for more lenses in the future, maybe not so hot.

And, just in case you didn't see it earlier in the thread, using Live View is slower than using the optical viewfinder.

 

[soydios]

I would not buy the D60. If you want a Nikon, find a used D80 instead; it's the same sensor, but the D80 is way more full-featured (top LCD, battery grip option, internal AF motor)

Nikon/Canon/Sony lenses are all roughly the same price. I know, Sony lenses should be cheaper since they don't have VR/IS, but they aren't.

In your situation I would go with that A200 kit, or find a used D80.

 

[Heidfirst]

Originally posted by: thecoolnessrune


In my personal desires, I think it comes down to the Sony A200 (W kit, so I get 18-70mm and 75-300mm) or the Nikon D60 with the 18-55mm 55-200mm VR lenses. The Sony is seeming really tempting to me. The lens reaches out further, is $100 less, and the first lens reaches out further before changeout than the Nikon setup. How do the lenses between Sony and Nikon compare? It also seems a really nice bonus that the Sony lenses will be cheaper, sense I dont have to worry about the extra money in VR. VR was a really nice feature on both. The only downside to the A200 kit is I'm not as used to the controls and it's obviously not as full featured as the D60.

What would you guys pick in the move from P&S?

I would get the A200 & use the saving to buy better glass.
apart from possibly handling which is a personal thing I really can't see why one would pay so much more for a D60 which as far as I can see really gets you nothing significant.

Also, Sony UK have got their rebates in place for the holiday season already (they were late last year) so possibly Sony US may have some too.