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UPDATES: Dear Lord in Heaven, am I really this stupid...

Zenmervolt

Zenmervolt

Elite member
1970 Bayliner, 19ft runabout with the OMC (Buick Odd-Fire) 155hp V6 and Electric Shift sterndrive.

Starts and idles well, no top-end power and misfires. Probably needs a new carb and new ignition system. Owner claimed to notice slight smoking, he thinks it's oil. Seems more likely that it's running rich and he's seeing fuel smoke, not oil smoke.

Since it's not running right, it's dirt cheap. And it's light enough that it's within the tow rating of the S70... On the other hand, it's another project... Somebody help me here. Anyone know much about the Buick 225 V6?

Updates: Make was a typo. The boat is a GlasPly. He's asking $1,200. I'm going to try to bargain if it looks rebuildable. Has a nice tandem axle trailer with electric brakes too.

ZV
 
Obligatory: If it fucks, floats, or flys...

What are you planning on using it for? Have you owned a boat before?
 
boating is awesome, if you can get it for cheap, it will be something for you to test out and see if you are serious about boating. If you aren't, and dont like boating and the added expenses, you can sell the boat for way more than you bought it because you fixed the engine. Win win IMO
 
I live about 5 minutes from Lake Washington and about 15 minutes from Lake Samamish. I'm thinking of using it for kicking back on the lake on nice weekends, maybe pulling the occasional tube or skier. Basically light-duty general recreational use.

I have not personally owned a boat before, but my parents had a boat when I was a kid (they still have the latest one) so I've been around them for a while, but my experience has been with more modern Mercury or MerCruiser engines and sterndrives, not the older OMC models.

ZV
 
the 225 is very similar to GM small blocks, I am going to guess a carb rebuild, possibly checking the compression on each cylinder to make sure the rings are still good. should not be too expensive, even if you rebuild the motor with new bearings and rings.
 
The buick 225 oddfire is oddly enough found mostly in jeeps from the 60's and early 70's (jeep was bought by AMC and switched to AMC engines in the CJ series in '72). Jeep had bought the tooling from buick and produced these engines calling them the 'Dauntless'. I have one in my CJ5. They are a great engine, tons of torque, decent power for their weight, parts are still relatively cheap. The engine tooling was later bought back by buick and modified to produce the 231 buick (buick 3.8 L). This too was produced as an oddfire until '77 I think when it was switched over to even fire. The oddfire engine is considered a bit stronger due to the crank being more solid.

This means that you can swap in certain years of 231 if you want as a bolt in swap. However, the 225 is externally balanced while the 231 is internally balanced so the flywheels don't interchange. You can fix this by having a machine shop balance the 225 flywheel to your 231. 231's are plentiful, you can get them with EFI if you want, and parts are dirt cheap. If you want to know more about the engine you can check out a jeep site that I frequent Early CJ5

Let me know if you have any questions. If you buy the boat and want to ditch the engine for a fresh 231 I'd probably be willing to take some parts off of your hands.

I have a 225 in my CJ5 and at idle they sound cool. They have this lopsided sound and can idle really low, they sound different than any other engine you'll hear.
 
How cheap is "dirt cheap"?? like others have said, you can rebuild the motor (if needed) for a resonable
$$ if you do it yourself. Maybe a compression check before you make a final offer so you know what it's
gonna take to repair it..
 
Autozone part # BU225LE01 as long as the pistons can be salvaged and you don't need to bore it out, BU225ME01 if you need pistons and/or need to overbore it. Honestly, it would be cheaper to to buy a used buick engine if the pistons need to be replaced.
 
I have a 1996 Bayliner (19 foot) with a 3.0 Mercruiser on it. I don't know anything about the OMC motors, but the boat is great for what you want. If it is fiberglass hull, it is probably from the same mold that mine is. They still make boats from that mold today (look at the Discovery series).
 
Updates: Make was a typo. The boat is a GlasPly. He's asking $1,200. I'm going to try to bargain if it looks rebuildable. Has a nice tandem axle trailer with electric brakes too.

ZV
 
Lol man you've found another of my engineering pet peeves, check the link from BigNate, it covers pretty well why GM's 90 degree V6's are a horrible idea. They came up with a brilliant way of getting around building an engine properly. The short story is that you have the same configuration as a V8, but have basically cut the front 2 cylinders off, so when theyse cylinders should be firing there's an 'empty' bit. Yes thats oversimplification, they did modify the crank to a 120 degree interval, but it still does not fix the fact that to properly balance the power distribution on a 6 cylinder, its gotta be inline or 60 degree.

The engineering they did to make it work was simply brilliant, but a complete waste. They did it so they could run their blocks on the same line and the V8's, and then built lines to make just the V6 instead of just making a proper v6.
 
Originally posted by: lurk3r
Lol man you've found another of my engineering pet peeves, check the link from BigNate, it covers pretty well why GM's 90 degree V6's are a horrible idea. They came up with a brilliant way of getting around building an engine properly. The short story is that you have the same configuration as a V8, but have basically cut the front 2 cylinders off, so when theyse cylinders should be firing there's an 'empty' bit. Yes thats oversimplification, they did modify the crank to a 120 degree interval, but it still does not fix the fact that to properly balance the power distribution on a 6 cylinder, its gotta be inline or 60 degree.

The engineering they did to make it work was simply brilliant, but a complete waste. They did it so they could run their blocks on the same line and the V8's, and then built lines to make just the V6 instead of just making a proper v6.
Click to expand...

$$$$$ That's why they did it. Even with all the mucking around with split throws on the crank it was still much less expensive the build the engine that way. And it's still regarded as one of the more reliable and fuel-efficient engines of all time (the current GM 3800 V6 can trace its evolution all the way back to the 225).

I agree with you that from a purity of design standpoint it's bad, but from a purely pragmatic standpoint it's quite an admirable solution.

ZV
 
I don't really know much about power boats. I'm more of a sailboat kind of guy...been sailing my entire life.

Good luck with it man! :thumbsup:
 
Originally posted by: JulesMaximus
I don't really know much about power boats. I'm more of a sailboat kind of guy...been sailing my entire life.

Good luck with it man! :thumbsup:
Click to expand...

It probably won't happen, but it's a fun thought. I need to look at it this weekend.

ZV
 
I'm personally a fan of GM's 90 degree 6's. As Car and Driver put it (during the last year of the 3800) "(the engine) is as reliable as the sun."
 
Engineering isn't about making the most ideal and theoretically text book perfect machine every time, it's about getting as close as you can given real world time, budget, market, and mass production constraints.
 
Originally posted by: Zenmervolt
Originally posted by: lurk3r
Lol man you've found another of my engineering pet peeves, check the link from BigNate, it covers pretty well why GM's 90 degree V6's are a horrible idea. They came up with a brilliant way of getting around building an engine properly. The short story is that you have the same configuration as a V8, but have basically cut the front 2 cylinders off, so when theyse cylinders should be firing there's an 'empty' bit. Yes thats oversimplification, they did modify the crank to a 120 degree interval, but it still does not fix the fact that to properly balance the power distribution on a 6 cylinder, its gotta be inline or 60 degree.

The engineering they did to make it work was simply brilliant, but a complete waste. They did it so they could run their blocks on the same line and the V8's, and then built lines to make just the V6 instead of just making a proper v6.
Click to expand...

$$$$$ That's why they did it. Even with all the mucking around with split throws on the crank it was still much less expensive the build the engine that way. And it's still regarded as one of the more reliable and fuel-efficient engines of all time (the current GM 3800 V6 can trace its evolution all the way back to the 225).

I agree with you that from a purity of design standpoint it's bad, but from a purely pragmatic standpoint it's quite an admirable solution.

ZV
Click to expand...

Yes, there's an 'empty bit' as you stated, but I've driven this engine and under load you wouldn't be able to tell. Most of these engines came with a hefty flywheel because it was externally balanced, which makes it so you won't feel anymore vibes than you would from any other engine from the time period and it gives you a nice torquey feel to it.

Would I want this engine in a car that I wanted to be a quiet highway cruiser? No... Would I want this engine in a vehicle that's a toy? Yes! It's strong, reliable, has an amazing sound and feel to it, and is really a blast to use. Also, I'm a sucker for something different. People put 350 chevys in everything. Something different is more interesting than just another 350.
 
Originally posted by: Demon-Xanth
I'm personally a fan of GM's 90 degree 6's. As Car and Driver put it (during the last year of the 3800) "(the engine) is as reliable as the sun."
Click to expand...

My car has a 90 degree V6 (3.5L) and I love it. Makes it's max torque around 3K so it's still fun to drive
and gets an amazing 26 MPG mixed..
 
If you don't take it PM me with the information, I can pass it on to my jeep site. Those guys love to find anything with that engine.
 
If it starts and idles it won't be the ignition. I would bet the high speed/fast jet is clogged up and it's not getting enough fuel... not sure about misfiring though.

I always wanted to try refabbing those boats - if you get a round/curved windshield and a new console it will look like a 2000 boat.

 
Actually, if it starts and idles but bogs down and misfires it could be the ignition. If it's a stock engine it's a distibutor with points. Check the points for corrosion and their gap. The condensor is cheap, just change it.
 
Originally posted by: Bignate603
Actually, if it starts and idles but bogs down and misfires it could be the ignition. If it's a stock engine it's a distibutor with points. Check the points for corrosion and their gap. The condensor is cheap, just change it.
Click to expand...

I was thinking possibly bad advance as well. The owner is claiming that the points coil, and condenser are new, but there's good potential for someone who doesn't know what they're doing to screw up setting the points.

Of course, as Halik reminded me in PM, there's always the very real possibility that it's a blown ring.

ZV
 
Originally posted by: Zenmervolt
Originally posted by: Bignate603
Actually, if it starts and idles but bogs down and misfires it could be the ignition. If it's a stock engine it's a distibutor with points. Check the points for corrosion and their gap. The condensor is cheap, just change it.
Click to expand...

I was thinking possibly bad advance as well. The owner is claiming that the points coil, and condenser are new, but there's good potential for someone who doesn't know what they're doing to screw up setting the points.

Of course, as Halik reminded me in PM, there's always the very real possibility that it's a blown ring.

ZV
Click to expand...


If that's the case I'd just swap it with a 231. It's seriously a drop in replacement with certain years. Parts for a 231 are easier to find and the aftermarket is more available.

Anyways, then you could ship me the heads. 😉
 
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