UPDATED: structural engineering report added - regards to a cracked house foundation?

[purbeast0]

UPDATE 7/15/12

so here are the scans of the structural engineering report that I received.

http://imageshack.us/f/827/scan0001g.png/
http://imageshack.us/f/859/scan0002fq.png/

i do not fully even understand what is going on in those, so if anyone wants to actually explain to me what it means that would be helpful too. i plan on calling the place tomorrow and asking them about the specific case as well, if they remember or have other records of it.

i was also told that all of the recommended work was performed when they finished the basement. i do plan to get the statements of work for that too.

ORIGINAL POST

so my wife and I put in an offer on a house and it got accepted.

one of the disclosures is that before the current owners finished a portion of the basement, that there was a crack in the foundation. it is a vertical crack in a cinder block portion of the foundation.

they got a structural engineer to check it out and have a report for it. we are goign to be getting the report by tomorrow.

from the research i have done today, basically it says a foundation crack could be nothing bad at all but it could also be very bad, and to have a professional check it out, which is basically the report i'm waiting on to see how bad it is.

so i'm wondering if anyone on ATOT has any experience with a crack in a foundation of a home, and if so, what was the end result?

 

[MovingTarget]

My mother was a real estate agent. Foundation problems are a BIG RED FLAG for a house being a moneypit. Tread carefully and make sure that any repair is done and verified independently prior to closing on the property.

 

[purbeast0]

thing is the house was built in 1966 so it's nearly 50 years old. so as of now i have no clue if that crack is nearly 50 years old too, or if it cropped up in recent time. i'd think that if it was there for a long time, and didn't get worse, then it's fine.

but again i guess i'll have to see the report first to see all this heh.

 

[Charles Kozierok]

I do have recent experience with this issue -- and it was not a good experience. To make a long story short, we bought a place with a big foundation crack, I assumed it was cosmetic, and ten years later I ended up shelling out an amount well into the five figures to have the place jacked up and half the foundation replaced.

Tread carefully.

 

[jagec]

Structural engineer is the way to go. I'd want to hire my own vs. having the current owners do it for me, though...while a structural engineer won't risk their license (not to mention the liability!) just to do someone a favor, hiring your own means that there is NO conflict of interest. Honestly, it will only be a few hundred dollars, WELL worth it for the peace of mind.

Maybe you could do the hiring and the current owners could reimburse you when you buy the house?

 

[MagnusTheBrewer]

I do have recent experience with this issue -- and it was not a good experience. To make a long story short, we bought a place with a big foundation crack, I assumed it was cosmetic, and ten years later I ended up shelling out an amount well into the five figures to have the place jacked up and half the foundation replaced.

Tread carefully.

Yep, the only other way to fix it is to build a second interior wall with braces to carry the load. It's cheaper but harder to get the inspectors to sign off on. Cinder block for foundations suck.

 

[purbeast0]

Structural engineer is the way to go. I'd want to hire my own vs. having the current owners do it for me, though...while a structural engineer won't risk their license (not to mention the liability!) just to do someone a favor, hiring your own means that there is NO conflict of interest. Honestly, it will only be a few hundred dollars, WELL worth it for the peace of mind.

Maybe you could do the hiring and the current owners could reimburse you when you buy the house?

well the only problem now is that the crack is now behind dry wall so it isn't something they could examine very easily.

 

[purbeast0]

I do have recent experience with this issue -- and it was not a good experience. To make a long story short, we bought a place with a big foundation crack, I assumed it was cosmetic, and ten years later I ended up shelling out an amount well into the five figures to have the place jacked up and half the foundation replaced.

Tread carefully.

how large was the 'big foundation crack' that you had? i just don't know what is considered large and what isn't. also was it horizontal or vertical?

how did you konw something was up 10 years later when you had to fix it?

 

[OILFIELDTRASH]

No offense man but you're asking about a foundation to a house that no one here has seen, we don't know the soil type, and I'm almost certain none of them are structural engineers. Quit being a tight ass and have a professional that you picked out look at it.

 

[Charles Kozierok]

It was pretty large, and diagonal.

I knew it had to be dealt with when I went down there and found the wall leaning in by 4 or 5 inches. If I hadn't fixed it, the whole thing would have caved in.

It turned out they hadn't properly reinforced the wall, which was holding back the full weight of soil leaning against it.

Don't let this scare you too much -- it might be nothing like what I went through. Just pay close attention to the structural reports.

 

[jagec]

well the only problem now is that the crack is now behind dry wall so it isn't something they could examine very easily.

I would insist on taking the drywall down to let your engineer get a look at it. Replacing drywall is MUCH cheaper than fixing a structurally compromised foundation. If the owners balk, well, there are plenty of other houses on the market.

How recent is this inspection that they're giving you?

 

[purbeast0]

No offense man but you're asking about a foundation to a house that no one here has seen, we don't know the soil type, and I'm almost certain none of them are structural engineers. Quit being a tight ass and have a professional that you picked out look at it.

try reading the OP before making a stupid comment next time.

 

[purbeast0]

I would insist on taking the drywall down to let your engineer get a look at it. Replacing drywall is MUCH cheaper than structurally compromised foundation. If the owners balk, well, there are plenty of other houses on the market.

How recent is this inspection that they're giving you?

i don't know 100% at this point, but i do know they bought the house in february 2011, and the report was done sometime after they bought it because they finished the basement. the owners were goign to live there for a while but got reassigned job wise so they have to move and that is why they are selling it.

 

[purbeast0]

It was pretty large, and diagonal.

I knew it had to be dealt with when I went down there and found the wall leaning in by 4 or 5 inches. If I hadn't fixed it, the whole thing would have caved in.

It turned out they hadn't properly reinforced the wall, which was holding back the full weight of soil leaning against it.

Don't let this scare you too much -- it might be nothing like what I went through. Just pay close attention to the structural reports.

do you know how large it was like inches wise?

sorry for the 20 questions, just wondering though.

thanks for the info.

 

[ElFenix]

well the only problem now is that the crack is now behind dry wall so it isn't something they could examine very easily.

if the current owner won't allow your engineer to examine a crack i say that's a deal breaker. no experience with it myself but i've been watching too much holmes inspection lately.

 

[OILFIELDTRASH]

try reading the OP before making a stupid comment next time.

You're right man. No way the first engineers report could of been wrong and the foundation issue is way worse than first thought and they are trying to get out of it a year later. Silly me.

 

[Charles Kozierok]

do you know how large it was like inches wise?

sorry for the 20 questions, just wondering though.

thanks for the info.

Don't remember. But I think it was a few feet long.

I doubt the length is the issue. What matters is WHY the crack is there, and especially if it is being caused by pressure from soil or something else.

I would NOT buy this place without getting my own report from a good structural engineer I was paying. Period.

PS Foundation repairs = not covered by insurance.

 

[purbeast0]

You're right man. No way the first engineers report could of been wrong and the foundation issue is way worse than first thought and they are trying to get out of it a year later. Silly me.

im not asking people what they think foundation issue is on the house i'm looking at, because no one is going to know what it is obviously.

im simply asking people for their experience with foundation issues.

 

[OILFIELDTRASH]

im not asking people what the foundation issue is. im asking people for their experience with foundation issues.

Not trying to be a dick but you obviously want the house and are concerned with the foundation. The engineers report could be spot on and nothing to worry about but for the small amount it'd take to have another opinion and being able to sleep at night knowing it was the right decision I say forking the money over is a no brainer.

 

[Imp]

Structural engineers are like doctors... get a second opinion.

 

[Red Squirrel]

Pics would help.

You can maybe try to gauge the age of the crack by looking how worn the inside of the crack is. And how big is it? Can you put your finger in it, or is it barely big enough to put a sheet of paper in it?

Also is it on both sides of the block or just one? Also try to see if you can get a general idea as to whether or not the blocks got filled in. If they got filled in and the crack is only on the block and not the inside cement then you are most likely safe. I'm not an expert though, so best to wait to see what the pro says.

I have a block foundation and my house was built in 1965, there are a few cracks in it but they are smaller. There's actually one section with a "stair" crack from ceiling to floor near a beam and it's been repaired previously, that one is kinda scary but the fix never cracked again, so for all I know it could have been settling when the house was first built and it never moved again after that. I got the weeping tiles redone as the seal around the house was insufficient and the weeping tiles themselves were not exactly up to par. The nice thing about this is I got to see the footing of the house and there was not a single crack. THAT is where it's very important, which unfortunately is kinda hard to see during an inspection.

 

[Greenman]

Tons of experience with cracked foundations. My best advice is to ignore everything you've been told up till now. None of it matters, none of it has anything to do with the crack in your foundation. Get the engineers report, that will be all the information you need. It doesn't matter who hires the engineer, he's not going risk a lawsuit for a couple hundred bucks.

 

[OILFIELDTRASH]

Tons of experience with cracked foundations. My best advice is to ignore everything you've been told up till now. None of it matters, none of it has anything to do with the crack in your foundation. Get the engineers report, that will be all the information you need. It doesn't matter who hires the engineer, he's not going risk a lawsuit for a couple hundred bucks.

Uh... pretty sure 80% of the posts in the thread have said the same thing you are recommending about getting an engineers report.

 

[DCal430]

Anyone else read the title as "Crack House".

 

[pcgeek11]

so my wife and I put in an offer on a house and it got accepted.

one of the disclosures is that before the current owners finished a portion of the basement, that there was a crack in the foundation. it is a vertical crack in a cinder block portion of the foundation.

they got a structural engineer to check it out and have a report for it. we are goign to be getting the report by tomorrow.

from the research i have done today, basically it says a foundation crack could be nothing bad at all but it could also be very bad, and to have a professional check it out, which is basically the report i'm waiting on to see how bad it is.

so i'm wondering if anyone on ATOT has any experience with a crack in a foundation of a home, and if so, what was the end result?

Run like hell. I dealt with this last year. Vertical crack in my foundation which caused the floors to sag and walls to start pulling away from the ceiling. It is all fixed now after the foundation repairs by Ramjack $14,000 and then the drywall and framing damage and kitchen repairs almost another $14,000. So after $28,000 in repairs I am again whole but a lot poorer than I was. I was lucky I had the cash. I wouldn't want to relive the experience.