*UPDATED* POLL: Your belief of health impact of growing reliance on wireless

[Capt Caveman]

Sh*t! I missed that and cannot edit the poll.Agreed, it's f-ing worthless without that option now.

Can't you edit the poll?

 

[crashtestdummy]

Absolutely not concerned. Some things to consider.

• The energy per photon of radio waves is not nearly high enough to ionize electrons. As a result, radio waves won't cause chemical reactions the way, say, x-ray and gamma radiation would (which is how those cause cancer).
• The only other way that radio waves could interact with you is through adding kinetic energy to water in your brain, essentially cooking it the same way a microwave would. Think of how much power your microwave takes, and how much your cell phone generates. I can assure you that your brain is not being cooked by your microwave.

 

[epidemis]

Crashtest, I challenge you to look at a 1w laser if you don't think non-ionizing radiation can't be harmful

 

[Kaido]

Funny, I was just thinking about this yesterday when I was driving home. Cell phones, Bluetooth, AM/FM/HD radio, EDGE/3G/4G data, television signals, all this stuff beaming through our brains.

But, 100% of us are going to die, so you can either spend your life worrying, or realize that you'll never make it out of this life alive, and go enjoy it :awe:

 

[Jaskalas]

That some people appear to genuinely react to wireless is cause for concern.

We don't understand the effect properly and should study it to learn what we're getting ourselves into as we ramp up to faster / stronger more widespread wireless immersion.

 

[DrPizza]

That some people appear to genuinely react to wireless is cause for concern.

We don't understand the effect properly and should study it to learn what we're getting ourselves into as we ramp up to faster / stronger more widespread wireless immersion.

That none of those people have been capable of demonstrating their problem when they don't know if the wireless is turned on or off - it's all in their heads.

And OP, since you mentioned above that the poll couldn't be fixed; I fixed it for you by adding in the last option.

 

[pmv]

its all bullshit
people freaked out when electric wires were installed in homes 100 years ago
<yawn>

Can't say I'm worried about wifi myself, but, in the interests of being contrary for the sake of it, I feel obliged to point out that there are plenty of things in history that people were freaked out about (or not at all worried about, even) that _did_ turn out to be harmful.

So just saying that people worried about electric wires doesn't prove anything, any more than pointing to the way people once drank radioactive tonic water or smeared thorium and radium on their faces as a beauty treatment would prove the reverse (that everything fashionable is likely to turn out to cause cancer!).

As I understand it, wifi uses far lower power than cell phones, so if there's any risk it will show up in all those heavy cell phone users first. If they all start dropping like flies _then_ i might be more concerned. But until then I'm not bothered.

 

[Puppies04]

A million times a 1 watt transmitter is 1 MW - not something I would want placed against my head

Except it isn't 1 it is 0. 1 wireless device won't cause cancer so a million devices.... yeah you guessed it, still won't cause cancer.

 

[crashtestdummy]

Crashtest, I challenge you to look at a 1w laser if you don't think non-ionizing radiation can't be harmful

A 1W laser a) is focused much more tightly than a cellphone transmitter (particualrly when directed at the eye, where it is focused nearly down to the diffraction limit) and b) will burn you, not cause cancer. The damage is acute, not chronic. Last I checked, talking on the cellphone didn't leave burn marks (or even make my ear warm). I can get burns by climbing a 10,000W radio tower while it's operating, but that will still not cause cancer. It's more like touching a hot iron.

 

[frostedflakes]

I wouldn't say I have zero concern, I'm not going to claim with absolute certainty that it can't cause problems, science and our understanding of the world is always changing and I think it'd be kind of arrogant to claim our current understanding of everything is correct. I have pretty close to zero concern, though. As others have mentioned there's currently no known mechanism AFAIK by which non-ionizing radiation can cause mutations and cancer, it just doesn't have enough energy to break electrons off DNA molecules. Any study that shows a correlation between non-ionizing radiation exposure and cancer rate without a mechanism to explain it is just correlation, without the causation to explain how and why it happens it doesn't really mean anything, the higher cancer rate could just as easily be attributed to any other factor. All non-ionizing radiation does in tissues is cause heating, which can be a problem when exposed to very high power levels (think 1200W like your microwave). Unless you climb up on top of a radio tower, though, heating effects should be insignificant, and even then it's only really an issue in tissues with little/no blood flow to carry the heat away, such as the corneas. Maybe this slight heating can cause problems? Or maybe it's just in their heads and psychosomatic? Who knows for sure. There are some pretty hilarious examples that support it being psychosomatic.

http://mybroadband.co.za/news/wireless/11099-massive-revelation-in-iburst-tower-battle.html

 

[epidemis]

Well I'm glad we have established non-ionizing radiation can be harmful.

 

[LiuKangBakinPie]

But seriously Since I read that mobile phone radiation kills sperm i stopped carrying it in my pocket.

 

[PieIsAwesome]

Better go live in a dark box because visible light is higher frequency and carries more energy per particle than radio waves (which is the same thing as visible light but at a lower frequency). Think of all that visible light you are exposed to!

 

[Number1]

Some schools in canada have removed wifi because of community concerns. It is inconceivable to me that supposedly educated school officials would act on such non sense.

 

[epidemis]

Better go live in a dark box because visible light is higher frequency and carries more energy per particle than radio waves (which is the same thing as visible light but at a lower frequency). Think of all that visible light you are exposed to!

But it doesn't penetrate the skin, which is evolutionary hardened against radiation

 

[Doppel]

There is absolutely no known mechanism by which this radiation can cause cancer, etc. You should be more concerned about going outside on a sunny day because the amount of radiation striking your body is several orders of magnitude stronger. Cell phones cannot cause cancer - known since Einstein explained the photoelectric effect.

I'm a sad panda, seeing yet another thread started which is indicative of a lack of basic science education in the United States.

Well, I admitted to knowing very little about it and also that I'm only mildly concerned.

But I take issue with "no known mechanism". There may be no known mechanism, but there are studies showing an impact of cell phone use.

Can't you edit the poll?

Just the first post, from what I can tell...

And OP, since you mentioned above that the poll couldn't be fixed; I fixed it for you by adding in the last option.

Thanks!

 

[Mr. Pedantic]

Because some studies DO show an effect. And anything that is mild, which takes many years to impact health, can be quite difficult to figure out at first. As examples, tobacco, asbestos, and a multitude of FDA approved medications that are subsequently pulled off the market.

Ever heard of Dow Corning? It's never enough for some sources to show an effect, that's only enough to say that the subject in question warrants further research.

In addition, the effect of radiation from cellphones or wifi is hard to elucidate because there is so much other background - cosmic radiation, solar radiation, radioactive decay from within the crust and atmosphere, radiation from stoves, microwaves, radio and TV, etc.

Also, just as an aside. If you're worried about radiation from wireless communication, why are you not worried about radon poisoning? Why aren't you worried about driving? Why aren't you worried about crossing the road, or eating? Why aren't you outraged by the huge, huge number of premature deaths resulting from cigarette smoking? Vending machines kill people too.

A million times a 1 watt transmitter is 1 MW - not something I would want placed against my head

I fail to see how you could possibly have posted this, having read and applied your undoubtedly awesome skills of reading comprehension to what I wrote

That some people appear to genuinely react to wireless is cause for concern.

We don't understand the effect properly and should study it to learn what we're getting ourselves into as we ramp up to faster / stronger more widespread wireless immersion.

.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Technostress

But it doesn't penetrate the skin, which is evolutionary hardened against radiation

Not really.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Melanoma

Well, I admitted to knowing very little about it and also that I'm only mildly concerned. But I take issue with "no known mechanism". There may be no known mechanism, but there are studies showing an impact of cell phone use.

There's no known mechanism for any effect from homeopathy. There are studies showing a beneficial effect from homeopathy. Does that mean that homeopathy works? It doesn't, and if you think it does, you are at best misguided and at worst completely batshit crazy.

 

[Doppel]

why are you not worried about radon poisoning? Why aren't you worried about driving? Why aren't you worried about crossing the road, or eating? Why aren't you outraged by the huge, huge number of premature deaths resulting from cigarette smoking? Vending machines kill people too.

Because this thread isn't about those things.

Apparently it's true that there is no scientific basis for electrosensitivity: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electromagnetic_hypersensitivity

There are studies showing a beneficial effect from homeopathy. Does that mean that homeopathy works? It doesn't

You just said it does, even if its mechanism is unknown. I have no opinion on homeopathy, nor is this thread about homeopathy.

 

[Nintendesert]

Here I thought this was a place of technology and thinkers, instead I see fucking morons worried about radio waves. Our society is regressing into a self imposed dark age.

 

[Mr. Pedantic]

Because this thread isn't about those things.

So I take it you're not worried about these things. The question is, given you are concerned about wireless technology, why aren't you concerned about everything else?

Apparently it's true that there is no scientific basis for electrosensitivity: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electromagnetic_hypersensitivity

You just said it does, even if its mechanism is unknown. I have no opinion on homeopathy, nor is this thread about homeopathy.

I didn't say that it works.

 

[Matthiasa]

Until we start going to much higher frequencies for bandwidth reasons there really is no reason to be concerned. If we have to move to high optical or above then there will be issues but until then not so much. But by that point it is just point to point communications anyways so even that wouldn't really be that bad.

 

[Patranus]

I have no opinion at this time but I will put it this way. If wireless tech kills me even 10 years earlier that is a sacrifice I would be willing to make opposed to living without wireless tech.

 

[IronWing]

Wireless killed the Packers.

 

[disappoint]

Until we start going to much higher frequencies for bandwidth reasons there really is no reason to be concerned. If we have to move to high optical or above then there will be issues but until then not so much. But by that point it is just point to point communications anyways so even that wouldn't really be that bad.

High optical? You think we're going to use ultraviolet to communicate with a cell phone tower? Holy fucking shit.

 

[Matthiasa]

High optical? You think we're going to use ultraviolet to communicate with a cell phone tower? Holy fucking shit.

High optical frequencies would be in the violet range just shy of ultraviolet, that and ultraviolet could be used for direct links though the air.
Oh and as per other communications types it is being researched for short range radio use in the UVC band, given the atmosphere blocks it from the sun.