Updated Kyro 2 Review and Extreme Overclocking

[ThExorcist]

Here you go...

Kyro 2

 

[PotNoodle]

They got trilinear filtering wrong:

"So, Kyro II carries out tri-linear filtering for one texture in two clock cycles. It needs the same two clocks for two operations with bi-linear filtering. When the tri-linear filtering is on with enabled lightmaps, Kyro II tackles a pixel in three clocks, so tri-linear filtering is not used with the lightmaps: in two clocks the pixel pipeline lays the base texture with tri-linear filtering and in the third clock it lays the lightmaps with bi-linear filtering. With anisotropic filtering enabled there are 4 clocks needed to process each pixel in case one texture is laid (the base one) and 8 clocks in case there are two textures."

Evidently they can't even read simple product specifications, as it says it right here:

"twin high performance texturing and shading pipelines (2 trilinear pixels per clock)"

So, in fact it produces the first texture layer in trilinear in one clock, and the lightmap (in trilinear) in the second clock. It is anisotropic that takes two clocks, not 4 as they suggest.

I hate reviews that can't even look at simple specifications and get them right!!!

 

[ThExorcist]

LoL

Well at least they gave the Kyro 2 an update because their original review was not showing actual performance due to old drivers and old Directx version. This one was better except for what you mentioned...

 

[WetWilly]

The voltage mod thing is interesting. Maybe that's why the Vivid!XS seems to overclock better - I've heard of several hitting 200MHz with just a fan. Does Videologic gives them more juice?

 

[PotNoodle]

"Does Videologic gives them more juice?"

Pehaps the Vivis!XS just uses less because its only 32MB...?

 

[rickn]

my herc 4500 does 190mhz with no modification. Overclocking is just luck of the draw for the most part

 

[WetWilly]

That's kind of my point - highest I've seen so far for a Herc 4500 without stuttering or texture problems is 190-195. I've heard of Vivid!XS boards doing 185 without a fan, and 195-200 with a fan. I believe Beyond3D's Vivid!XS hit 200 with a fan (BTW, whatever happened to them?)

I looked at Videologic's site and if the board pictured there is the shipping Vivid!XS, then there are some differences in the Herc and Videologic PCBs. That combined with the adjustable voltage capability raises the possibility there might be more than luck involved.

PotNoodle's got an interesting point, too. The boards' power draw may be different - not only does Hercules have more memory, they're powering the fan from the board itself while Vivid!XS owners have to power a fan externally to the board. I know some nVidia owners swear they've gotten better stability by disconnecting the onboard fan - maybe it affects the Herc Kyro as well?

I'd just be curious to see if the Vivid!XS board's default voltage output is the same as the Herc. Any Vivid!XS owners here?

 

[WetWilly]

Update - saw this thread over at PowerVR Revolution by the guy who first did the mod on several different cards (and boy is he pissed at x-bit labs for not giving credit for it).

Here's the relevant quote:

Also i noticed that my Vid cards have different default GPU Vcore volts. Hm does that say something about quality control? I'm not sure really. But man my TV out card had the lowest default Vcore of them all and it would only O/C to 178mhz. The other 2 did 185mhz and 188mhz before V mods of course. Guess what? The one that O/Ced to 188mhz had the highest Vcore. Kinda obvious what's going on here.

 

[Mingon]

I bet you wish those Kyro's would overclock like a Geforce card ;-)

 

[PotNoodle]

"I bet you wish those Kyro's would overclock like a Geforce card ;-)"

Yawn.

Not really - they're plenty fast enough without having to void the warranty; but if thats what you have to do to get acceptible performance out of your GeForce card...

 

[nam ng]

<< That's kind of my point - highest I've seen so far for a Herc 4500 without stuttering or texture problems is 190-195. I've heard of Vivid!XS boards doing 185 without a fan, and 195-200 with a fan. I believe Beyond3D's Vivid!XS hit 200 with a fan (BTW, whatever happened to them?) >>


Too bad the clock isn't async, kind of hard to get 250MHz SDRAM.

 

[PotNoodle]

&quot;Too bad the clock isn't async, kind of hard to get 250MHz SDRAM.&quot;

Why would you even want 250Mhz SDRAM? If you are talking about a KYRO 'Ultra' card then I don't think we'll be seeing it at 250Mhz. KYROII is only 175Mhz which is a clock speed bump of 60Mhz over its .25um sibling; I don't see them going to 250Mhz even with another shrink to .15um or something.

 

[nam ng]

Because it's obvious to me, the limitation isn't GPU clock speed but Quality of video ram available.

KyroI --> ~PC100
KyroII -> ~PC166?

 

[PotNoodle]

&quot;Because it's obvious to me, the limitation isn't GPU clock speed but Quality of video ram available.&quot;

What?

The Hercules are already rated at 4ns memory, which is good for 200Mhz!

 

[nam ng]

<< which is good for 200Mhz >>


Sure, can't get a PC166 joke? 200MHz is the limit... not by the GPU's shortcomings.

 

[PotNoodle]

&quot;200MHz is the limit... not by the GPU's shortcomings.&quot;

I have no cluse what you are trying to say.

If 200Mhz is the limit on the RAM, but people are only reaching 190Mhz, ummm....

 

[nam ng]

Some do find it hard to understand what I say, happened fairly often, must be my poor English skills.

 

[powervr2]

5 ns is good enough for 200 mhz ... (and beyond)

 

[Teasy]

I went to the X-Bit forums and posted a correction to there review (them saying that trilinear takes 2 clock cycles on Kyro II)http://www.xbitlabs.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/000734.html, but sadly they won't beleive me and are claiming that IMGTEC/ST are merely lying when they say it can do single clock trilinear filtering.

 

[rickn]

That's right, how could we forget that ixbt would know more about the Kyro 2 than the actual designer and manufacturer would.

*rolls eyes*

I have always disliked thier reviews and their attitudes. Bunch of know-it-alls they act.

 

[Ironduke]

<< &quot;I bet you wish those Kyro's would overclock like a Geforce card ;-)&quot;

Yawn.

Not really - they're plenty fast enough without having to void the warranty; but if thats what you have to do to get acceptible performance out of your GeForce card...

>>



roflmao!

excellent response sir!

 

[nam ng]

<< 5 ns is good enough for 200 mhz ... (and beyond) >>


Go do some research, find how many or who will supply 64Mb 200MHz SDRAM , where can anyone buy 200MHz SDRAM DIMM modules? does 4ns SDRAM exists?

After all that and you still don't get it, I would assumed you've never worked in bleeding edge, high volume IC production lines.

 

[PotNoodle]

&quot;where can anyone buy 200MHz SDRAM DIMM modules?&quot;

I'm not sure I see how DIMM modules relate to videocard RAM...

 

[Mingon]

<< Go do some research, find how many or who will supply 64Mb 200MHz SDRAM , where can anyone buy 200MHz SDRAM DIMM modules? does 4ns SDRAM exists? >>



Gee, whats this gainward geforce 2 mx using Toms hardware, wow its 3.5ns Sdram and if you read the first paragraph

<< Gainward's 'Golden Sample', an MX 400 model which uses 32 MB of high-speed SDRAM at 4ns, provided a surprising contrast to its competitors. The drivers offer an Enhanced Mode, that runs the board at 240 MHz core and 240 MHz memory speed. >>

.

 

[nam ng]

<< Go do some research, find how many or who will supply 64Mb 200MHz SDRAM, where can anyone buy 200MHz SDRAM DIMM modules? does 4ns SDRAM exists? >>



Fortunatly I'm not the only one with less than perfect English skills ; Maximal, extreme quality SDRAM cheap? easy to buy or acquire exactly same as extrem quality DDR SDRAM?