He just said a 'release' will be faxed within 48 hrs. I would think that means they aren't getting a new title since the lein was paid off.
If he does not have a clear title with a clear chain of ownership, he cannot sell you the car. It's as simple as that.
There is no "release" that will allow him to sell you the car. He can't forge the title, apparently, so he's going to make a bogus document to scam you with instead.
You are wasting your time, but at this point, we've given you numerous explanations about why this is not legal. It's near the point, and I hate to say this, that when you get scammed, you won't really be deserving of any sympathy.
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When you get the release, ensure that it has the loan number on it.
Call JPM and verify that the vehicle is paid off.
You need to get the person that JPM releases the vehicle lien on, to sign over the title to you.
If the person is not readily available to you; then get a notarized bill of sale sent to you by them with a copy of the release.
You need to ensure that you have a documented chain of custody from the lien holder (JPM) through the PO to you to show your local DMV. By you contacting JPM, you can satisfy yourself that JPM paperwork is legit.
Call JPM and verify that the vehicle is paid off.
You need to get the person that JPM releases the vehicle lien on, to sign over the title to you.
If the person is not readily available to you; then get a notarized bill of sale sent to you by them with a copy of the release.
You need to ensure that you have a documented chain of custody from the lien holder (JPM) through the PO to you to show your local DMV. By you contacting JPM, you can satisfy yourself that JPM paperwork is legit.
SpatiallyAware
Lifer
- Sep 7, 2009
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I would be surprised if the bank did any of this. He is not on the loan, and not on the title. He's basically a random guy off the street asking for notarized bills of sale etc etc etc.
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The bank only has to verify that the release is real. If he explains the situation to the auto loan section at JPM; he should be able to just get a yes/no that it is cleared. That is all he needs to ensure that the paper trail has a legit starting point.
Without the starting point; a false document can start a trail that is considered to be legit.
Without the starting point; a false document can start a trail that is considered to be legit.
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DominionSeraph
Diamond Member
- Jul 22, 2009
- 8,391
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What part of the word "must" are you having a problem with?
If you sold or bought a vehicle
The Seller must:
- Remove the plates and surrender them to any MVC Agency or Regional Service Center, unless the plates are being transferred to another vehicle (plates can be transferred to another vehicle but not to another owner)
- Sign the reverse side of the title and give it to the buyer, with:
Buyer's name and address
Date of sale
Mileage odometer reading (see below)
Sale price
- To avoid a $25 penalty, all titles must be transferred within 10 working days from the date of sale
The Buyer must:
- Sign the back of the title and insert his or her driver license or corpcode number
- Visit an MVC Agency to transfer title, complete registration and receive your plates:
- Bring the signed title, proof of insurance and sales tax payment (see Vehicles exempt from sales tax)
- Pay $60 (or $85 fee for a financed vehicle)
Repeated here:
http://www.dmv.org/nj-new-jersey/title-transfers.php
http://www.dmv.org/nj-new-jersey/bill-of-sale.php
The title has not been transferred to the seller. You need to deal with the real owner. (Stop calling him "PO" because he's not the previous owner, he's the "CO" -- current owner.)
Oh, and this "random guy selling the car" is saying that he took the car by mechanic's lien? Where is it? It should be showing up alongside "JP Morgan".
So:
1, This guy lied to you about the circumstances surrounding his acquisition of the car.
2. The requirements of a sale were never met, so it was never sold to him.
3. The state of New Jersey does not recognize that he holds the title or has paid any tax on any sale.
...and yet you're all primed and eager to hand:
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...to him?
That's a lot of Benjamins to let walk away in return for nothing but a random dude's signature on someone else's title.
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- Oct 30, 2000
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Also a mechanic's lien will not trump a JPM lien. Both are considered to be valid liens and must be clears for a clear title.
Bignate603
Lifer
- Sep 5, 2000
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This all too shady. Just tell the guy you'll be happy to deal with him as soon as he can get the title in HIS name.
waggy
No Lifer
- Dec 14, 2000
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OH shit i missed that.
you know OP after reading more go for it@! you ignore great advice and people that know more then you. You are right! what can go wrong?
...
Bignate603
Lifer
- Sep 5, 2000
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It's obvious that this guy that's never bought a car before knows something that we don't. :sneaky:
jessieqwert
Senior member
- Jun 21, 2003
- 957
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How many 80+ year old men are buying 6 speed mini cooper S's with 17 inch wheels?
Good question, now act on this instinct.
Good question, now act on this instinct.
that read like
blah blah blah YOU SHOULD BE AFRAID OF THE INTERNET blah blah blah....
I did actually see one. And it was the turbo version. ??? yeah. Here's why: https://www.google.com/search?um=1&...d=b&emsg=NCSR&noj=1&ei=dqdRT6S7IYKftwe9l_nEDQ
probably a car they always wanted but couldn't get.
Being 55, I can guaranty you that NO 80 yr old guy would EVER want a Mini. Realize the cars he grew up with and think it over.
- Oct 30, 2000
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Now in that age bracket, we either want the 'cuda/RR, Challenger, Charger, Camero/Firebird, Mustang to dream with. Power/muscle cars that either had or wanted but could not keep because already started a family.
Then the street rods :thumbsup:, but those are hardly ever available
I'm not ignoring anyone's advice! I am thankful for the help I have received... if you feel you are wasting your time here then you do not have to contribute.
I got a notarized letter from JP Morgan confirming the release of the lein. Called the bank and confirmed this is legit. So the title is clean, in the old guy's name. Now lets just say we agreed on a price, my financing company would send me a check in the title owners name and my name, one that we would both have to endorse. This shady guy would need to understand that he will have to go get his money from the current owner after he gives me the title.
Now what would screw me here? This guy is no more than a middle man at this point. I would have the clean title, signed by the current owner, and would have paid the current owner.
I got a notarized letter from JP Morgan confirming the release of the lein. Called the bank and confirmed this is legit. So the title is clean, in the old guy's name. Now lets just say we agreed on a price, my financing company would send me a check in the title owners name and my name, one that we would both have to endorse. This shady guy would need to understand that he will have to go get his money from the current owner after he gives me the title.
Now what would screw me here? This guy is no more than a middle man at this point. I would have the clean title, signed by the current owner, and would have paid the current owner.
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Pay the current owner, get the title signed over to you, go to the DMV and get a title in your name.
Call Shady on Fri eve after you have made arrangements to pick up title/car on Sat/Sun as a courtesy so he can make arrangements to get paid.
Shady placing a lien would be the only drawback. Do everything on the weekend, so no lien can be placed on the vehicle.
Then the street rods :thumbsup:, but those are hardly ever available
If you go to hot-rod type car shows, many of them are for sale but you'll need ~$40K for a nicer one.
- Oct 30, 2000
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hanoverphist
Diamond Member
- Dec 7, 2006
- 9,928
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red flag. not sure about NY, but here in AZ they wont register a vehicle or even transfer ownership from 3rd party owners. like, if i buy a car from Jose but the title is in eduardo's name, im screwed. id have run away long before that particular red flag tho.
My wife can find better things (in her mind) to do with 40K
Always a problem
Most people don't have a spare $40K laying around to drop on a vehicle that's pure toy, driven only to car shows or 4th of July parades. Then too, taking up a spare garage space.
- Oct 30, 2000
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Glad everything worked out.
Did you end up paying the original owner.
What happened with the intermediary?
Did you end up paying the original owner.
What happened with the intermediary?
SpatiallyAware
Lifer
- Sep 7, 2009
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Glad it worked out, but I still think it was sketch and wouldn't recommend anyone take that risk.
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