UPDATED Buying a used car with no insurance and no plates?

Discussion in 'The Garage' started by Insomniator, Feb 28, 2012.

  1. SpatiallyAware

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    Tons of misinformation in this thread, although the laws vary state-to-state.


    For most places in the US, the only thing REQUIRED is insurance (either a policy for the car or you may be covered under your existing policy). However, if the LEO is a jerk the car itself could be impounded. If you have a signed/dated bill of sale (sort of sketchy to do in your situation) then most states will allow that.



    That being said, with car/motorcycle sales if it feels weird it IS weird.

    Keep in mind that a vehicle stolen from a few states away might not show up as stolen in your state... So you could have it inspected (even by a LEO), seller signs a fake out of state title, you give him money, you take it to dmv/tag office and they impound your car and leave you with nothing.

    The fact that this guy won't meet you to pickup the car is a huge STOLEN and/or title issue flag, in my opinion. He does not want to be there if you have a cop come out and determine the car is stolen. Let me guess, he lives with his mom/gf/someone else too right?



    No kidding... run from this one. The options you want will come up again, just be patient.
     
  2. exar333

    exar333 Diamond Member

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    This. Walk away quickly if there is no clean title.
     
  3. Jeffg010

    Jeffg010 Diamond Member

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    Title is the key to all of this. My brother in law owns a junk yard and only had a salvage license at the time. He bought a truck off someone that pulled into his junkyard. This guy did not have a title. The real owner was a friend of the guy that sold the truck to my brother in law. The shit hit the fan and the real owner was taking him to court and he was facing losing his salvage license. He ended up calling the real owner asked him what it would take to drop all of this. He ended up playing $500 to him to make this go away. At the time my brother in law was 6 months into his junkyard business and learned the hard way. If someone does not have a title he just walks.

    Also my brother in law now has a dealer license and it became 100 times easier because he has a dealer plate he can stick on and just drive away. Most dealers will put on a temp tag for you but if not you will need to hull it away yourself.
     
  4. SpatiallyAware

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    There are lots of fake titles out there. Just because someone has a title, with a vin that matches the car, and you call the state to check does not mean it's 100% legit. I have personally seen a fake title on a stolen motorcycle, and have dealt with 5-6 sketch title situations and they are a huge huge PITA. For a junkyard or dealer you just have to show due diligence, so they don't care so much with fake titles. When it's your $11k cash on the line it's a whole different matter.



    IMHO your gut instinct is your best friend with these situations. The fact that the guy is hesitant to meet you FOR ANY REASON is a huge red flag. People wanting to do $10k deals in parking lots are huge red flags.

    No plate means it sat or was likely transferred from another state.

    The whole thing just reeks.
     
  5. Insomniator

    Insomniator Diamond Member

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    Nah I met the guy the first time on saturday when I first went to look at the car. I just haven't been able to get my mechanic out to see the car this week -- and he said i REALLY shouldn't put my own plates on there for the 20 min drive to his place.

    I know the guy lives at this house and has paid his taxes (thanks to the internets), trying to figure out his FB page now.
     
  6. exar333

    exar333 Diamond Member

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    (sorry - a little off-topic here)

    What is a good way to validate if the title is legit or not? Would be good information to know...
     
  7. Insomniator

    Insomniator Diamond Member

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    Well he has the title, still in the previous owners name. Some internet research showed JP morgan has a lein on the title still -- so I told him to find out if this car is actually paid off or not.

    Other than that, threw my plate on the back and made it 7 miles to the mechanic safely! Needs some front end work, just like all mini's...

    If this lein is gone and just a relic then its time to make a deal!!!!!
     
  8. Bignate603

    Bignate603 Lifer

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    No, it's not time to make a deal. The title is in the previous owner's name, not the guy you're buying it from. He doesn't own the car just because he has the piece of paper. Unless the guy you're buying it from can show you that he legally owns the car you shouldn't touch this car.
     
  9. DominionSeraph

    DominionSeraph Diamond Member

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    ^^^ what he said.
     
  10. SparkyJJO

    SparkyJJO Lifer

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    Run. Away. Now.
     
  11. Eli

    Eli Super Moderator<br>Elite Member
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    Um... Yeah, no. Run away.
     
  12. Insomniator

    Insomniator Diamond Member

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    Why is this such a big deal? What is he gonna do, take my money and have the PO report the car as stolen?

    We've been in contact with the PO maybe he can just transfer ownership to me directly.

    Apparently the PO signed the back of the title and left the buyer part blank. According to this http://www.nj.gov/mvc/Vehicle/TransferringVehicle.htm, I can't tell if this is legal or not.
     
    #37 Insomniator, Mar 2, 2012
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2012
  13. SpatiallyAware

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    Heh, like we didn't see this coming, right?



    Even with the lien gone, that guy DOES NOT have the right to sell the car. It is VERY possible that you could buy this and NEVER be able to register it at best, and at worst it will eventually show up stolen and get seized by the lienholder or previous owner.


    Most likely the (shady) seller bought this for pennies on the dollar from a buddy because it was going to get repo'd. He drove it on a bill of sale, probably got a ticket, and is now trying to dump it on someone else.



    It is NOT legal (probably in any state but definitely any that I've done business in) for the guy to leave the seller part blank. IF you sign that, and try to register it, it is VERY likely that you're receiving stolen property. At the very least you're participating in tax evasion.

    Seriously... You are completely wasting your time with this. I PROMISE you that the car isn't paid off or the previous owner would've transferred the title before selling. These shady situations are NEVER innocent.

    Like I said, just because the VIN isn't flagged as stolen with your particular state (and that's all the LEO is doing, checking to see if it's stolen) does NOT mean you can register the car and all is legit.






    In short, like we all have said since the beginnning, RUN. It is not worth saving $2k to risk an $11k purchase.
     
  14. waggy

    waggy No Lifer

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    Why is it a big deal? the guy you are buying the car from does not own it. even though the owner signed it.

    though the odds on anything negative happening are slim. just take the title and have it transferred to your name. I wouldn't take the damn chance.
     
  15. SpatiallyAware

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    First off, none of this will happen with a lienholder on the title - period end of story.


    Even if it was magically paid off and the person never received the 'new' title, this still means the current title is not legit.

    Even if it was magically paid off and you could somehow obtain the title, it WILL be in the original owners name - who you, and this guy, do not know.


    Even if you got to that point (you won't) you would still have to forge the original owner's signature, illegally register it in your name, and who knows if someone will end up looking for the car (this is STILL possible)





    So BEST CASE scenario is still risky. This is an $11k risk, just pay $13k and get one without all this BS.
     
  16. SpatiallyAware

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    This title has a lien on it. He would have to get a new title (still in original owner's name) and forge the seller's signature (since the guy he's giving money to isn't even the owner) and then hope the original owner doesn't somehow find out and try to get the car back.
     
  17. Insomniator

    Insomniator Diamond Member

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    Wouldn't the new title go to the PO if one is needed, since neither me nor this shady guy have any real connection to the car yet?

    At this point I don't care if I don't buy the car I'm more interested in what the hell is actually going on.
     
  18. SpatiallyAware

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    Yes, the title would be mailed to the address on file for the previous owner.


    If you know someone at your tag office they sometimes let this stuff slide (IE just hand you the title rather than mail) if they know it's legit.


    No offense, but your situation is very clearly sketch and the tag office is not going to do a thing once they see a lien (again, stolen or not is a separate issue)


    Edit:
    And like I said, my bet is that the car was supposed to get repossessed. The original owner probably sold it to a 'friend in need' with the direction to drive the car on a written dated bill of sale (you can get insurance and do this legally.. even though the car isn't in his name, as most states give you a 30 day grace period to do a title transfer).


    However, the guy probably got a ticket for having an out of date bill of sale and can't drive it anymore. He's trying to make a quick buck on an unsuspecting person, or sell it to a 'thug' who will do the same thing he did. My bet is this guy you're dealing with paid like $500 for the car, if that, and is trying to scam his way out of it.
     
    #43 SpatiallyAware, Mar 2, 2012
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2012
  19. HarryLui

    HarryLui Golden Member

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    You already answer the question yourself.


    JP Morgan is the real owner of this car. Car is on the urge of being repossession due to lack of payment. PO and seller hid the car to prevent repossession (thus no plate, no insurance, no registration), and waiting for a fool to show up with 11k.
     
  20. Insomniator

    Insomniator Diamond Member

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    OK so lets say this is all a total scam job. Until I give him money nothing bad can happen so can't I just keep going until either they give up or I find out somehow its legit?

    The last contact I had with the guy was me telling him there is a lein on the title, and the bank wouldn't tell me if it was still in effect due to privacy issues. I told him have the PO call the bank and release the info to me. He got back to me saying the guy will call, release the info, and fax a copy of the letter from the bank to me.

    I guess the bigger question is, what has to happen for me to confirm this is legit? Do I need to meet up with the PO, go to a DMV and literally sort it out together?

    I must say though that I bet very few people would have actually found out a lot of the info I had and this whole situation does sound like some kind of scam.
     
  21. HarryLui

    HarryLui Golden Member

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    Do what you want, just don't hand over the money, not ever for this car.
     
  22. SpatiallyAware

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    So all the guy has agreed to do is release to give you more info? Man this is such a waste of time... It really is.. Clearly someone owes money on that car. It definitely has not been paid in awhile.

    Even IF you could get the bank to work something out, it will not be with you at all. The PO will have to do the footwork, and if that happens I promise he's going to keep the car (although it won't happen, because there is not ANY non-sketchy reason for this other guy to be selling the car at a discount if this could all be settled up with a phone call)


    This is a total waste of time, I promise you. Either way good luck, keep us updated.
     
  23. Ferzerp

    Ferzerp Diamond Member

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    Why are people so desperate for a "deal" that they lose all sorts of reasoning skills?

    We had another guy a few months back posting a thread about trying to buy a car from someone with a title in a 3rd party's name.

    We've told you why you're being scammed, but you keep trying to make excuses for this scammer in your head. Just walk away. It is not legitimate. There are plenty of other cars out there that you can buy legally instead of giving some random individual money for a car he does not own.

    You could, of course, call JP Morgan and tell them where their car is sitting if you really wanted to. I'm sure they'd be glad to get it back.
     
  24. Gibson486

    Gibson486 Lifer

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    Yeah, in MA, it's no plates, no drive. You have to get the plates before hand and before you get the plates, you have to have the car insured. Most people are oblivious to it because they usually have the car dealer get the plates for them.
     
  25. Insomniator

    Insomniator Diamond Member

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    I haven't lost all my reasoning skills. I have time to play this out, haven't given him any money yet and am learning more and more about this process (never bought any car, used or new before). I am curious to see how this ends.

    Yes there are plenty of cars out there no doubt, but I like this particular one and there is no reason to go as far as possible to find out if its legit or not.