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**Updated 4/8** ROTFF!! Bunch of p*$$ies. GM, in protest, pulls adds from the LA Times

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Originally posted by: Skoorb
Originally posted by: SynthDude2001
Originally posted by: MasterAndCommander
Bring Back Camaro/Firebird/Trans-AM

Why did they get rid of them in the first place?
Mustang was obliterating them in sales.

This is true, but misleading. The mustang outsold the Camero and Firebird combined, but once combined it was only by a tiny bit. GM sold more then enough of them to keep them afloat and were still very profitable. So this is no excuse.

The day GM did away with them, was they day they declared their own Death. After they did that, things just went down hill. The Aztec came out, and Pontiac started to seem like the worst "name" in automobiles. I mean, the GTO is a disgrace to its former self, and deserves the low sales numbers it has. Seriously, I have yet to see a SINGLE GTO on the road since it came out.

GM can go to hell as far as I'm concerned anymore. Axing the Camaro and Bird was inexcusable, and I know a lot of "used to be" Bowtie fanboys, who will never buy another car that has anything to do with GM. So its not like I'm the only one. It amazes me that GM doesn't see that.

The Vette and Cobalt are the only decent cars, and they're both Chevy so why have Pontiac at all? Excitement? Yea right. I say the Cobalt is cool because its only 205 HP or something, and can actually hold neck and neck with the Neon SRT-4, and outperforms it significantly in the handling department. At a road cource, the Cobalt wins, and at the track, the Cobalt actually has a better 1/4 mile time, just doesn't finish it quite as fast. And on top of all that, the Cobalt looks about 10x better. The C6 just looks sexy, no explanation necessary. And the C6 Z06, thats going to be one serious auto.

Besides that though, GM suxx the hard one
 
Originally posted by: AMDZen
This is true, but misleading. The mustang outsold the Camero and Firebird combined, but once combined it was only by a tiny bit. GM sold more then enough of them to keep them afloat and were still very profitable. So this is no excuse.

The day GM did away with them, was they day they declared their own Death. After they did that, things just went down hill. The Aztec came out, and Pontiac started to seem like the worst "name" in automobiles. I mean, the GTO is a disgrace to its former self, and deserves the low sales numbers it has. Seriously, I have yet to see a SINGLE GTO on the road since it came out.

GM can go to hell as far as I'm concerned anymore. Axing the Camaro and Bird was inexcusable, and I know a lot of "used to be" Bowtie fanboys, who will never buy another car that has anything to do with GM. So its not like I'm the only one. It amazes me that GM doesn't see that.

The Vette and Cobalt are the only decent cars, and they're both Chevy so why have Pontiac at all? Excitement? Yea right. I say the Cobalt is cool because its only 205 HP or something, and can actually hold neck and neck with the Neon SRT-4, and outperforms it significantly in the handling department. At a road cource, the Cobalt wins, and at the track, the Cobalt actually has a better 1/4 mile time, just doesn't finish it quite as fast. And on top of all that, the Cobalt looks about 10x better. The C6 just looks sexy, no explanation necessary. And the C6 Z06, thats going to be one serious auto.

Besides that though, GM suxx the hard one

LOL. Your posts in car threads are always so funny.

 
Why would they abandone cars that define them just because they weren't destroying the competition for a couple years. Makes no sense. They just give up on markets and make themselves weaker and less diverse...but heaven forbid they axe any of their extranous brandnames.

My parents own a pretty successful wholesale greenhouse business, and they grow a lot of geraniums, tons actually. They're a huge pain in the ass to water, hard to take care of...they require constant cleaning of the leaves to keep them looking good. I always hated the fvcking things because they were so much work, they grow tons of other flowers that are much easier to take care of.

I said to my dad a few years back "We make a lot of money on these things right? Thats why we grow so many?"
"No, not really...they have a pretty low return."
"Then why do we grow them anyway? They're such a pain the ass. Why don't we just grow more petunias or pansies instead."
"Well, they're our calling card. We have a reputation for having the best geraniums in the state...thats why we sell so many. And when people buy our geraniums they remember them, and they buy lots of other stuff too."

That said, my parents always buy Dodge vehicles so who the hell knows. 😛
 
Originally posted by: iamwiz82
Originally posted by: Doggiedog
Originally posted by: iamwiz82
Originally posted by: Tremulant
Heh. I like the commercial for the G6 that says something along the lines of "the most powerful v6 in it's class, even more powerful than the Altima 2.5." Makes me laugh.

Maybe I got jipped. Cause my Altima 2.5 has a 2.5 liter I-4. And so do all the other 2.5s I've ever seen. HM. 😉🙂

Like Ford's 2.5L v6? Or Chrysler's 2.5L v6?

He's referring to that stupid commercial which is an apples to oranges comparison with the Altima. The Altima 2.5L has only 180HP but its an I4. How can Pontiac compare its V6 to an I4 and say its the most powerful V6 in its class? The 3.5L V6 in the Altima has something like 265HP and blows the Pontiac away.

The way I took it is all 2.5L engines are I4 configurations. The last sentence is what does it.

I meant all the Altima 2.5's that I've seen. I was still talking about the Altima, so I said "2.5s" to differentiate from the Altima 3.5s.

They should mention that they're using base configurations in that commercial, it's misleading.
 
Originally posted by: Tremulant
Originally posted by: iamwiz82
Originally posted by: Doggiedog
Originally posted by: iamwiz82
Originally posted by: Tremulant
Heh. I like the commercial for the G6 that says something along the lines of "the most powerful v6 in it's class, even more powerful than the Altima 2.5." Makes me laugh.

Maybe I got jipped. Cause my Altima 2.5 has a 2.5 liter I-4. And so do all the other 2.5s I've ever seen. HM. 😉🙂

Like Ford's 2.5L v6? Or Chrysler's 2.5L v6?

He's referring to that stupid commercial which is an apples to oranges comparison with the Altima. The Altima 2.5L has only 180HP but its an I4. How can Pontiac compare its V6 to an I4 and say its the most powerful V6 in its class? The 3.5L V6 in the Altima has something like 265HP and blows the Pontiac away.

The way I took it is all 2.5L engines are I4 configurations. The last sentence is what does it.

I meant all the Altima 2.5's that I've seen. I was still talking about the Altima, so I said "2.5s" to differentiate from the Altima 3.5s.

They should mention that they're using base configurations in that commercial, it's misleading.

I believe they say something to the effect of "more standard power than an Altima 2.5L."
 
Originally posted by: iamwiz82
Originally posted by: Tremulant
Originally posted by: iamwiz82
Originally posted by: Doggiedog
Originally posted by: iamwiz82
Originally posted by: Tremulant
Heh. I like the commercial for the G6 that says something along the lines of "the most powerful v6 in it's class, even more powerful than the Altima 2.5." Makes me laugh.

Maybe I got jipped. Cause my Altima 2.5 has a 2.5 liter I-4. And so do all the other 2.5s I've ever seen. HM. 😉🙂

Like Ford's 2.5L v6? Or Chrysler's 2.5L v6?

He's referring to that stupid commercial which is an apples to oranges comparison with the Altima. The Altima 2.5L has only 180HP but its an I4. How can Pontiac compare its V6 to an I4 and say its the most powerful V6 in its class? The 3.5L V6 in the Altima has something like 265HP and blows the Pontiac away.

The way I took it is all 2.5L engines are I4 configurations. The last sentence is what does it.

I meant all the Altima 2.5's that I've seen. I was still talking about the Altima, so I said "2.5s" to differentiate from the Altima 3.5s.

They should mention that they're using base configurations in that commercial, it's misleading.

I believe they say something to the effect of "more standard power than an Altima 2.5L."

Do they? IIRC, they do mention something about the most powerful V6 in it's class. I haven't seen the commercial in a few weeks, but it always gets a chuckle out of me.

Especially the one where the woman gets in the car and then waits for the steering wheel and pedals to move into place before driving off. (wait, is that the same commercial?)

edit: moved a sentence around to make sense.
 
**Updated 4/8**



GM, IN PROTEST, PULLS ADS FROM L.A. TIMES
April 8, 2005

In what may go down as one of the most conspicuous moves by a car manufacturer against a major media outlet, General Motors Corporation has pulled all of its advertising from Tribune Company's Los Angeles Times for the foreseeable future, according to a report in today's Wall Street Journal. Brian Steinberg and Joseph Hallinan of the Journal say it is in response to a series of articles about General Motors that have appeared in the Times' Wednesday section, "Highway 1."

At the heart of the issue are "some factual errors and misrepresentations in the editorial coverage," GM spokeswoman Ryndee Carney told the Journal. "It's not just one story. It's a series of things that have happened over time, and we've made our objections known to the paper, and so we'd like to keep our discussions between us and the paper private," she said.

"As a general policy, we don't do this," she added. "It's very, very rare that we would do this."

Carney declined to specify the amount of money at issue, citing competitive reasons. The Journal contact the Tribune, who also declined to disclose a figure. "Our policy is never to comment on the amount of money an advertiser spends with us," the spokesman said.

That didn't stop the Journal from speculating, however. "One person familiar with the advertising industry said the amount is perceived by people in the industry as 'highly significant' and that the action is seen as punitive." A media buyer, speaking generally to the Journal, said the amount would likely be in excess of $10 million.

The Journal reports that the auto maker spent about $2.8 billion on media time and space for advertising in 2004, according to TNS Media Intelligence. That figure includes ads for television, cable, newspapers and other media platforms.

"As GM has struggled to stop losing market share in the U.S., executives there have stepped up the volume of their complaints about negative press. Leading that offensive is Vice Chairman Robert Lutz, who chastised reporters at the New York Auto Show last month, and has taken media critics to task in his Web log," report Steinberg and Hallinan.

In his Wednesday column, "Rumble Seat," Los Angeles Times automotive writer Dan Neil sharply criticized GM for what he said were a series of poor management decisions. "GM is a morass of a business case, but one thing seems clear enough, and Lutz's mistake was to state the obvious and then recant: The company's multiplicity of divisions and models is turning into a circular firing squad," wrote Mr. Neil, who also called for the ouster of GM CEO Rick Wagoner.

Dan Neil won a Pulitzer Prize for critical writing last year in "Rumble Seat." He is the only automotive journalist to have won the coveted award.

This is not the first time an auto maker has pulled advertisements in protest to critical writing by a publication. It may be, however, the largest of its kind. Toyota pulled one year's worth of ads from Motor Trend magazine, in protest to an article it perceived to be overly critical of the Toyota Supra. After Car and Driver magazine described the 1969 Shelby Mustang GT500 as "a Thunderbird for Hells Angels," Shelby pulled its ads from the publication. (In response, the publisher of Car and Driver magazine cited the action in its publicity as an example of its 'no nonsense' journalism.)

If General Motors is hoping that its action against the Los Angeles Times will have a chilling effect on negative journalism against the auto maker, it may do just that. On the other hand, it's doubtful that discussions about this incident will remain quiet.
 
Originally posted by: Skoorb
Owned by GM!

How did GM own anyone? They just owned themselves by pulling out ads that would have otherwise gotten to consumers.

What exactly is GM upset about? That someone pointed out how fvcked up their company is? And whose fault is that?

I can't find anything in the LA Times article (written by a Pulitzer Prize winner) that was incorrect.
 
Originally posted by: NFS4
Originally posted by: Skoorb
Owned by GM!

How did GM own anyone? They just owned themselves by pulling out ads that would have otherwise gotten to consumers.

What exactly is GM upset about? That someone pointed out how fvcked up their company is? And whose fault is that?

I can't find anything in the LA Times article (written by a Pulitzer Prize winner) that was incorrect.
They will just move the ads to another magazine. GM is upset because this mag is saying things that hurt GM. If somebody was saying bad things about you, even if they were true, would you continue to do business with them? No, sir. Owned by GM, because there goes $10 million in advertising to a competitor's magazine/paper.

 
Originally posted by: Skoorb
Originally posted by: NFS4
Originally posted by: Skoorb
Owned by GM!

How did GM own anyone? They just owned themselves by pulling out ads that would have otherwise gotten to consumers.

What exactly is GM upset about? That someone pointed out how fvcked up their company is? And whose fault is that?

I can't find anything in the LA Times article (written by a Pulitzer Prize winner) that was incorrect.
They will just move the ads to another magazine. GM is upset because this mag is saying things that hurt GM. If somebody was saying bad things about you, even if they were true, would you continue to do business with them? No, sir. Owned by GM, because there goes $10 million in advertising to a competitor's magazine/paper.

Well, I guess GM had better start pulling ads from CNN too:

http://money.cnn.com/2005/04/08/commentary/wastler/wastler/index.htm?cnn=yes
 
Originally posted by: NFS4
Originally posted by: Skoorb
Originally posted by: NFS4
Originally posted by: Skoorb
Owned by GM!

How did GM own anyone? They just owned themselves by pulling out ads that would have otherwise gotten to consumers.

What exactly is GM upset about? That someone pointed out how fvcked up their company is? And whose fault is that?

I can't find anything in the LA Times article (written by a Pulitzer Prize winner) that was incorrect.
They will just move the ads to another magazine. GM is upset because this mag is saying things that hurt GM. If somebody was saying bad things about you, even if they were true, would you continue to do business with them? No, sir. Owned by GM, because there goes $10 million in advertising to a competitor's magazine/paper.

Well, I guess GM had better start pulling ads from CNN too:

http://money.cnn.com/2005/04/08/commentary/wastler/wastler/index.htm?cnn=yes

Were a media outlet to do a series of hit pieces against my business, you can bet your ass I'd pull my ads as well.

That CNN piece is one editorial. The LA Times was a series of articles.

And the CNN piece wasn't even all that accurate. The GM dealerships around me are all shiny, new and busy. But then, people in the midwest are more likely to buy domestic than people on the coasts, and are more into trucks, too.
 
Originally posted by: Amused
Were a media outlet to do a series of hit pieces against my business, you can bet your ass I'd pull my ads as well.

If you were doing a sh!tty job, then maybe some public exposure would give you the incentive to stop fvckng up.

A lot of companies do stupid, irrational, pig-headed things until their pants get pulled down around their ankles.
 
Originally posted by: NFS4
Originally posted by: Amused
Were a media outlet to do a series of hit pieces against my business, you can bet your ass I'd pull my ads as well.

If you were doing a sh!tty job, then maybe some public exposure would give you the incentive to stop fvckng up.

A lot of companies do stupid, irrational, pig-headed things until their pants get pulled down around their ankles.
That's true, but you'd still pull your ads 😉

 
Originally posted by: NFS4
Originally posted by: Amused
Were a media outlet to do a series of hit pieces against my business, you can bet your ass I'd pull my ads as well.

If you were doing a sh!tty job, then maybe some public exposure would give you the incentive to stop fvckng up.

A lot of companies do stupid, irrational, pig-headed things until their pants get pulled down around their ankles.

It still doesn't matter. Even if they were true, how fscking effective would my ads be in a publication with that content?

Either way, GM is being SMART pulling their ads.
 
Originally posted by: Amused
Originally posted by: NFS4
Originally posted by: Amused
Were a media outlet to do a series of hit pieces against my business, you can bet your ass I'd pull my ads as well.

If you were doing a sh!tty job, then maybe some public exposure would give you the incentive to stop fvckng up.

A lot of companies do stupid, irrational, pig-headed things until their pants get pulled down around their ankles.

It still doesn't matter. Even if they were true, how fscking effective would my ads be in a publication with that content?

Either way, GM is being SMART pulling their ads.

It would be "SMART" if GM never advertised with them EVER again, but they will. We all know they will. It's just simply a temper tantrum that they're throwing and once they cool down they'll start forking over $$$ again.

What it basically boils down to is "You write some good sh!t about us, we'll give you money." "You talk bad sh!t about us, we pull the money." This back and forth business is pointless for a company as large as GM is. You take the good with the bad and move on. You start putting out some good product and you'll enjoy the good reviews.

And the comparisons to smaller companies are irrelevant. Some little mom and pop store being bashed by the LA Times would have a lot greater effect than a well established "National" brand like GM with built-in, long-standing loyalties from millions of Americans.
 
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