Update6: Never trust Maxwell to be stable. Ever. Nvidia sucks. (newest post)

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Techhog

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Basically, is the extra binning on the G1 really worth it? I could get the G1 for $370 or the MSI Gaming for $330 ($320 after rebate, though I don't consider AR to be the actual price since you can't return a card after sending in the rebate). Unfortunately, I have to go Nvidia just because Arkham Knight is my most anticipated game and I want to play the series (well, maybe not Origins...) with Physx on finally. I doubt I'd keep whatever card I get for long anyway, since I plan on upgrading to a 1440p monitor by the end of next year. And before you say it, I'm waiting to move so that I can have desk space for a 27 inch or ultrawide monitor. I suspect that by then neither 3.5 nor 4GB will be enough for 1440p, so I figure upgrade the card now and then again to 1st or 2nd generation "16nm" for a longer-term upgrade.

Enough with that tangent, though. Does the G1's binning really matter? On a side note, I kinda broke the clip on my PCI-e slot. Could the weight of either of these cards become a problem?

EDIT: Somewhat related question: Does DSR work if a game is in windowed mode? If so, how?








Locked at OP's request.



esquared
Anandtech Forum Director
 
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RussianSensation

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For $40-50 less, I would take the MSI Gaming 970 hands down. Use the money saved to buy some game(s) or put it aside for an SSD/next GPU upgrade.

However, the best advice I can give you is to never buy a GPU months before the game you want to play actually comes out. Batman AK isn't scheduled until June 2, 2015 and as you've seen with GTA V, TW3, Dying Light, Project CARS and even AK, games get delayed for the 2nd, 3rd and even 4th time. By June 2, perhaps there will be price drops on GTX970/980 cards or better yet NV might bundle AK with a GTX970 which means you'll might get the game for free! Unless there are other games that you want to play in the meantime where your 7950 is struggling, but then why did you wait 7 months to not get a GTX970 as the MSI Gaming was $350 on launch week? Could have enjoyed 6 months of GTX970 performance at more or less the same price.

BTW, is your 7950 overclocked as you could easily get 25-35% more performance by overclocking it to 1.15-1.225Ghz with barely a 0.075V voltage bump.
 
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96Firebird

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Where are you buying from? I see the G1 at $355 on Newegg. You missed the rebate it had that brought it down to $315, but it seems you don't care for rebates anyways.

I'd go with the MSI, most 970s max out around the same speed when overclocking anyways.

Or, Newegg has an open box G1 for $285...

Edit - Looks like the open box G1 is sold out... More box of lies for ya.
 

Techhog

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For $40-50 less, I would take the MSI Gaming 970 hands down. Use the money saved to buy some game(s) or put it aside for an SSD/next GPU upgrade.

However, the best advice I can give you is to never buy a GPU months before the game you want to play actually comes out. Batman AK isn't scheduled until June 2, 2015. By that point, perhaps there will be price drops on GTX970/980 cards. Unless there are other games that you want to play in the meantime where your 7950 is struggling? BTW, is your 7950 overclocked as you could easily get 25-35% more performance by overclocking it to 1.15-1.225Ghz with barely a 0.075V voltage bump.

Actually, AK was delayed another 3 weeks. I get your point though. Mostly, I'm considering getting it now because it looks like AMD is just going to put out rebrands and nothing new from Nvidia will will replace it until Fall. I'd say that, best case, 970 might get a drop to $300. That's really not much when I have $350 budgeted for an upgrade this year. (Also, I should mention that I've had an SSD since November, but I never updated my signature.) I had originally planned on waiting until the end of June, but... Well, I guess it's just stupid. It's part of just wanting to take advantage of my credit card's introductory APR. Also, my 7950 is a dud. It needs to be overvolted just to get to 1GHz, and by 1.05GHz it runs into an issue where the driver crashes if I try to play a game after using sleep mode, then this happened, then certain games started having artifacting or glitching after an hour of playing... I should probably retest those since I had to reinstall Windows when I installed the SSD, but I suspect that the excess solder on the back of the card is the culprit. Powercolor rejected my serial number, so I can't even RMA. They also never sent my rebate, hence my distrust of them.


... And as a result of the overclocking issues, I really want something I can overclock through the roof because I'm that petty. :p
 

Techhog

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Where are you buying from? I see the G1 at $355 on Newegg. You missed the rebate it had that brought it down to $315, but it seems you don't care for rebates anyways.

I'd go with the MSI, most 970s max out around the same speed when overclocking anyways.

Or, Newegg has an open box G1 for $285...

Edit - Looks like the open box G1 is sold out... More box of lies for ya.

Huh. It wasn't that low a few hours ago. And I know I missed that deal. It sucks. :/ Not going for open box ever, though. I want a full warranty.

I'm only really even considering the G1 because I'm afraid of another dud lol. ~1500MHz actual boost would keep me happy, and over 1450MHz seems really common
 

RussianSensation

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Mostly, I'm considering getting it now because it looks like AMD is just going to put out rebrands and nothing new from Nvidia will will replace it until Fall.

This is a theory with little proof. I am not saying AMD won't have some rebrands (i.e., Tonga), but it's far fetched to think that AMD will just take R9 290/290X and simply call them R9 380/380X considering even today when an after-market R9 290X for $280 hardly sells in volumes. Therefore, rebranding those cards accomplishes nothing whatsoever unless AMD intends to sell an R9 290X for $199-229. :hmm:

I had originally planned on waiting until the end of June, but... Well, I guess it's just stupid. It's part of just wanting to take advantage of my credit card's introductory APR.

Well in this case the main game you want to play doesn't come out until June 2nd. Also, I am not a financial adviser but I'd hardly recommend buying a $300 GPU and then incur APR charges on it. I mean if you don't have the income to pay off that card in 30 days after buying it on credit, I dunno...

Either way, Gigabyte Gaming 970 is $315 on Newegg (non G1 one) and MSI Gaming is $320. Can't go wrong with either of those. I'd prefer the MSI because it turns the fan off at 65C and below.
 

Techhog

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This is a theory with little proof. I am not saying AMD won't have some rebrands (i.e., Tonga), but it's far fetched to think that AMD will just take R9 290/290X and simply call them R9 380/380X considering even today when an after-market R9 290X for $280 hardly sells in volumes. Therefore, rebranding those cards accomplishes nothing whatsoever unless AMD intends to sell an R9 290X for $199-229. :hmm:



Well in this case the main game you want to play doesn't come out until June 2nd. Also, I am not a financial adviser but I'd hardly recommend buying a $300 GPU and then incur APR charges on it. I mean if you don't have the income to pay off that card in 30 days after buying it on credit, I dunno...

Either way, Gigabyte Gaming 970 is $315 on Newegg (non G1 one) and MSI Gaming is $320. Can't go wrong with either of those. I'd prefer the MSI because it turns the fan off at 65C and below.

The intro APR is 0%. Trust me, I avoid those charges like the plague. Oh, I forgot to mention that I want the Witcher 3 free gift, since I suspect that AK (which I have already preordered) will take its place in June. Trust me, I'm pretty torn on this. I'd like to believe that AMD will have new cards, but rumors tend to be pretty reliable these days. I wish another leak would pop up. Batman AK actually releases on June 23rd now. How much of a price drop could AMD possibly drive? I'd imagine that if they were new cards, it would be a jump similar to 280 > 285. To my understanding, the MSI is typically $350 but is on sale now. So, unless AMD were to blow it out of the park with a $350 card which beats the 980... Why can't Newegg just have the standard return policy on graphics cards to make this easier? :/
 

Techhog

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Yeah, I'm gonna get the MSI for the silent mode. Now I just need to decide if I want to get it now, or if I want to wait. I really don't see myself caring much unless it were to drop below $300, especially since I changed my mind about upgrading to an i7 this year (which I only considered because I stream and I want newer games to stream well). I mean, if I cared that much about getting the best deal, I'd jut get that sexy 290 Tri-X for $270.
 
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skipsneeky2

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May 21, 2011
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The Strix,the MSI Gaming and the G1 are all such good cards that i just picked the cheapest of the 3.I spent hours debating between the 3 but as someone who doesn't do much overclocking i just picked the Strix in the end.

Don't got any complaints of any kind.Trust me i tried to find something worthy of complaining about and all aspects of the card are just excellent.:)Cool,quiet and built pretty good with no coil whine.
 

96Firebird

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I think the only way to get DSR with windowed games is to force the desktop to use the DSR mode you want. Here is an example for WoW:

In order to run DSR in "Windowed" or "Windowed (Fullscreen)" mode, you must change the settings in NVIDIA control panel, under Display -> Change Resolution, or use the Display settings in Windows. That way, the entire desktop is using DSR, which runs WoW in DSR in windowed mode. Changing the settings in-game will not allow you to use DSR in windowed mode.

Source
 

Techhog

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best advice, wait till june bro. listen to russian :)

Ugh... I really don't know. If the price doesn't drop then I just ending up waiting to pay more unless there's a deal. :/ It seems really unlikely that AMD can get something more than refined, overclocked Hawaii out for under $400. Is it really all that likely that there will be a price drop? If I hadn't already preordered the game it would definitely make the most sense to wait. I guess I could cancel the preorder, but then the "refund" would end up in my Steam wallet.
 

kasakka

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Mar 16, 2013
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I have two of the slightly cheaper Gigabyte 970 Windforce 3X OC cards. I got them instead of the G1 because for two cards there was a significant price difference at the time.

The cards run about the same as the G1 versions regarding overclocking, temps etc so at least in my case the binning, backplate, 2 more heatpipes in cooler and metallic vs plastic fan shroud were not worth the extra money. Plus 3X OC are slightly shorter because there's no protruding backplate.

The only problem with the cards (and same on the G1 model) is that on idle the fans run too loud. This is very easy to fix with a simple BIOS mod using Maxwell BIOS Tweaker tool. I didn't set mine to run at fans off in idle but instead just turned the RPM so low that they are inaudible, currently ~800 for primary card and 600 RPM for the other. For load they ramp up as normal and are not too loud.

The Gigabyte model is possibly the one that overclocks highest and has the least throttling thanks to it's larger cooler, but on the other hand MSI has the 0 db mode and smaller card so it comes to what you can fit in your case and which has the better price. The size stated on GB site is for the whole card including connectors btw, in reality the part inside your case is smaller, maybe about 300mm vs the site's reported 310mm. The G1 is larger because of the backplate.

Right now I'd advice the OP to wait for AMD's new cards and see if that pushes prices down. If not, then you could look into getting any of the ASUS, MSI or Gigabyte 970 models on the used market. That should do you just fine for Arkham Knight (also waiting for it!) up until Pascal cards are on the market.
 

Techhog

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Fine, I'll wait. I'll be upset if this actually results in me paying more, though, and even more upset if the 300 series releases in mid-June (which means that I'll have no time for an RMA if I get a lemon). And I'm not buying used. I want a warranty.
 

ocre

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Dec 26, 2008
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An overclocked 970 very powerful. Its gonna be hard to imagine the price vs performance changing much in that bracket. It should improve, AMD has to offer something eventually..... but that is months away.

The best thing about nvidia cards is they hold their value. Used 970s sell for ~300 right now. In the past, even when AMD launched new gpus first nvidia card values didn't plummet to nothing. It means, the majority of people don't keep up with the GPU market closely. Its really crazy but I know people who only buy nvidia because the resale value down th road. They upgrade often and recoup much of what they paid months/yr down the line.

So you can always sell your GPU if you start to see the situation changing in June.

I would buy up the best 970 deal you can get right now and enjoy it.

If AMD offers a new must have GPU for 300$, you can always sell the 970 and get a huge chunk of that back. I think that is a pretty safe assumption. So even if AMD pulls a rabbit out of their hat, you won't be out of luck or options. It will be just fine.

So you don't have to look at it as this one big decision you will be stuck with. You can always do both.

It is just hard to imagine that things will drastically change in the 300$ price range especially considering the games you are talking about. An overclocked 970 is really powerful. 980ish performance at that price is gonna be tough to beat.
 

96Firebird

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For a bit more in savings, you can sell the Witcher 3 game code that comes with the 970 for ~$25.
 

RussianSensation

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Fine, I'll wait. I'll be upset if this actually results in me paying more, though, and even more upset if the 300 series releases in mid-June (which means that I'll have no time for an RMA if I get a lemon). And I'm not buying used. I want a warranty.

If you intend to play other games from now until June 23 (Batman AK's launch date) such as GTA V, the Witcher 3, Dying Light, Dragon Age Inquisition, BF Hardline, Mortal Kombat X, Project CARS, Far Cry 4, Shadow of Mordor, then you don't need to really wait. As others have said, you can sell TW3 game code if you don't want to play that game. Alternatively, if R9 300 series is spectacular and NV has to drop prices on GTX980 by a lot, you'll kinda know 3-4 days before launch as we'll get major sites leaking performance data. If NV has to drop prices, they won't do it overnight. Let's say 2-3 weeks. That will give you almost 1 month to sell your GTX970. Some PC gamers don't follow the GPU market closely which means you'll still be able to sell a used GTX970 for $275-290 but you'll get to use it for 2.5 months for all those games I mentioned before Batman AK comes out.

However, if you are mostly interested in the Batman game and won't really play much until then, then might as well wait. I guess it all depends on the other games you intend to play/are in your backlog. Certainly buying an MSI Gaming 970 today with TW3 for $320 isn't a bad deal. :thumbsup:
 

Techhog

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If you intend to play other games from now until June 23 (Batman AK's launch date) such as GTA V, the Witcher 3, Dying Light, Dragon Age Inquisition, BF Hardline, Mortal Kombat X, Project CARS, Far Cry 4, Shadow of Mordor, then you don't need to really wait. As others have said, you can sell TW3 game code if you don't want to play that game. Alternatively, if R9 300 series is spectacular and NV has to drop prices on GTX980 by a lot, you'll kinda know 3-4 days before launch as we'll get major sites leaking performance data. If NV has to drop prices, they won't do it overnight. Let's say 2-3 weeks. That will give you almost 1 month to sell your GTX970. Some PC gamers don't follow the GPU market closely which means you'll still be able to sell a used GTX970 for $275-290 but you'll get to use it for 2.5 months for all those games I mentioned before Batman AK comes out.

However, if you are mostly interested in the Batman game and won't really play much until then, then might as well wait. I guess it all depends on the other games you intend to play/are in your backlog. Certainly buying an MSI Gaming 970 today with TW3 for $320 isn't a bad deal. :thumbsup:

Yeah, GTA V is my second most anticipated game. I'm just not 100% sure on when I'm buying it, so I didn't mention it. TW3 is also on my list, though initially it would have been something for later in the year. I have a huge backlog however, that's for sure, and as I said I want to replay the the other Arkham games with Physx. I'm going to decide what to do tomorrow. (Also, I have a strict max of $400 to spend. That alone is pushing it super far. If AMD were to do something so amazing that it drives the 980 down $200 I'd fall out of my seat.)

One question though: Does the standard version of the Gigabyte Windforce X3 use a custom PCB like the G1? And yes, I'm sure that any length of graphics card can fit in my case. Also, how do MSI and Gigabyte compare when it comes to RMA support?
 
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kasakka

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One question though: Does the standard version of the Gigabyte Windforce X3 use a custom PCB like the G1? And yes, I'm sure that any length of graphics card can fit in my case. Also, how do MSI and Gigabyte compare when it comes to RMA support?

As far as I know the only differences to the G1 are the ones I mentioned in an earlier post. I was able to fit the 3X OC into a case that according to the manufacturer only takes 290mm cards.

That said, you might still consider the MSI because when selling it'll fit more cases.
 

Techhog

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As far as I know the only differences to the G1 are the ones I mentioned in an earlier post. I was able to fit the 3X OC into a case that according to the manufacturer only takes 290mm cards.

That said, you might still consider the MSI because when selling it'll fit more cases.

Hm. I'm also concerned about the WF X3 sagging without a backplate, and the fact that I broke my slot's clip. I know that any card can easily fit in my case, though.
 

Techhog

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So, I'm going to buy it. I'm slightly torn on the Twin Frozr or the Windforce X3 though... There's a $5 difference between them before rebate; after rebates, however, the WF is actually $5 cheaper. I wish I could find a review of this version.
 

96Firebird

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Here is a review for the WF3X, might have to translate it. Doesn't compare directly to the TFV, but you get an idea of how it performs. Really though, I doubt you'll be disappointed with either card.
 

Techhog

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Here is a review for the WF3X, might have to translate it. Doesn't compare directly to the TFV, but you get an idea of how it performs. Really though, I doubt you'll be disappointed with either card.

Looks pretty good. Should my concerns about saggging and the broken clip be considered, though?

EDIT: Looking into it, I'll just take the safe route. This is one of the reasons I want to upgrade to Skylake at the end of the year...
 
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RussianSensation

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Looks pretty good. Should my concerns about saggging and the broken clip be considered, though?

EDIT: Looking into it, I'll just take the safe route. This is one of the reasons I want to upgrade to Skylake at the end of the year...

1. Gigabyte doesn't have the ability to run off the fan at 2D or light loads unless they changed this with a BIOS revision. For that reason MSI Gaming is preferable. Also, MSI Gaming is quieter at load to start with.

2. Gigabyte's warranty starts from the date the card has been manufactured, not from the date you purchased it. Therefore, MSI's 3-year-warranty is actually longer in the real world than Gigabyte's.

3. Check the warranty on both brands as I believe in the 2nd or 3rd year MSI's warranty changes in terms of who pays for shipping costs back to you. I think in the first year they pay for it, but later you might have to pay for return shipping or replacement parts such as fans.

4. Upgrading from an i5 4670K to Skylake for gaming is most likely going to be a waste of $ unless you have GTX970 SLI or faster or play a lot of CPU limited games like WoW. You are better off grabbing a solid aftermarket cooler like $40 Thermalright True Spirit 140 and overclocking that CPU to 4.5Ghz+. Think about it, the amount of $ you'd sink into Skylake might net you a 3-4% increase in gaming performance with a card of 970 level performance. It's a total waste. BFG tested 66 games and going from an i5 2500K to a 4790K netted just a 6-7% increase in gaming performance. You would be better off overclocking + buying a new $400 14nm GPU unless of course you can resell your parts for 80-90% of the cost or something.
 
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