UPDATE: White House Chief of Staff says 50 Years of Israeli Occupation Must End

[Fern]

Agreeing with Newell Steamer. OP has united that which is ununitable.

Fern

 

[Jhhnn]

That's pretty rich coming from you. Israel has shown stunning ferocity and courage in the face of overwhelming odds. They've never lost a fight. They defeated the US Navy. Who do you suppose is going to invade Israel and why? In case you haven't realized it by now, the world as a whole doesn't give a shit about the palestinians.

You're talking as nutty as touchstone. Israel never fought the US Navy although they did nearly sink the unarmed(?) USS Liberty in 1967.

 

[Omar F1]

​

holy fucking fuck you are batshit.

And people wonder why peace in the middle east is so elusive. It's because most palestinians are just as ignorant and fucking loony as touchstone.

Well, if you would like to hear a crazy but strong theory that is well known over here in ME, it's that Iran/Hezbollah has never been a true enemies of Israel/US in the first place.

Starting by Hamas, it's known that Iran has always supplied them with AK-47s, few RPGs and stinger missiles. But if Iran was ever serious about their target, wouldn't they supply Hamas with much more advanced defense-systems?

As for Hezbollah 2006-war, despite all the glorious speeches by their leader - in which his words were much more than his acts -, the real question is how many Israeli-soldier did they kill back then?
Now compare that with how many Syrians they killed by getting their hands very dirty with Syrian blood while fighting along pro-Assad forces, the same state which allegedly being considered anti-Israel, it truly uncovered their true face on the light of events during the last few years.


So, as it seems Hezbollah is very busy at killing Syrian people, active to a degree that never happened before against their alleged Israeli enemies. Also their mentor Iran, which has been vey busy as well in spreading chaos and death in Iraq; starting from Ahmed Chalabi (pro-Iran Iraqi) that did supply falsified reports about Iraq's WMD to the Pentagon, and later got caught passing intelligence information during the beginning of Iraq occupation in 2003, and lately by the Iran-supported Shite-militia that is called the public gathering, which been reported for terrorizing and killing Sunni civilian families after alleged liberation of ISIS-held towns.

Simply put: I believe that Israel got barely scratched by Iran/Hezbollah throughout her history, while in the last decade they both are accused of causing too much death over the populations of Iraq and Syria.

That being said, it became no secret to us - Arabs - that on whose side Iran/Hezbollah are really on. Although they both are running out of masks to get cover behind, yet the political stage continues all over the world.

 

[norseamd]

Starting by Hamas, it's known that Iran has always supplied them with AK-47s, few RPGs and stinger missiles. But if Iran was ever serious about their target, wouldn't they supply Hamas with much more advanced defense-systems?

What type of defense equipment? Honestly from a basic guess I would say that concealment and mobility are probably the most powerful defense that Hamas or Hezbollah could have right now.

 

[Blanky]

Interesting but NATO will never evict Israelis. Never happen.

 

[MongGrel]

How does NATO get involved?

Also, Israel may end up being driven toward being less tolerant with the Palestinians with an anti-ISrael policy from the US.

Must be some alternative universe thing.

 

[kage69]

You're talking as nutty as touchstone. Israel never fought the US Navy although they did nearly sink the unarmed(?) USS Liberty in 1967.

The Liberty did have a couple mounted machine guns on deck. In addition to gigantic white US Navy lettering on the bow. Under a large American flag flying from the mast. And, strangely enough, I hear English even emanated from it's radio and external speaker hardware!

I think one or two crewmen did, after it was clear the gunboats weren't there to rescue people, man an M60 or M2 and get off some shots so technically Navy did fight the Israeli Navy. But the USS Liberty was solo, and vastly outgunned by several waves of assault from aircraft and gunboats who came down on her with the fiery vengeance Israeli warriors reserve for rust colored Egyptian vessel, much smaller and with no gigantic satellite array on the atop her tower.

There really isn't any doubt it was a deliberate attack - the Israelis began jamming frequencies unique to the Liberty before they starting in, one of the reasons the excuse of confusion with a banged up rust bucket loaded with horse shit is just that: horse shit. I wonder how many of the armchair admirals here think banged up horse-transports from developing countries are known for sporting state of the art radio, thermal, satellite, ULF, etc hardware that needs to be jammed? Exactly.

Sorry, not all Israeli warriors I guess. A couple pilots were jailed because they refused to open fire. Hat's off to those guys, as well to the Jewish sailors aboard the Liberty who were (somehow) branded as anti-Semites along with the rest of the crew when the survivors spoke out.


But hey, some families got checks from Tel Aviv. No biggee, nothing to see here, just a mistake...

 

[Darwin333]

its a pathway, without the us protecting israel the UN will be able to send troops and actually use force to make israel comply. their leaders could be tried for war crimes and they could be sanctioned until they give up their nuclear weapons




Israel needs to be disarmed at all costs. if there is a single country that is most likely to use nuclear weapons and has demonstrated that it doesnt give a crap about non-jews at all it is israel, they would gladly nuke washington if it would save the goldman family


this is the start of a new era. if obama can dismatntle the relationship we have with israel and build a new one with jordan and syria then we have zero need for israel. they dont have oil and they dont have anything worth money



happy days guys

Wait, I thought NATO was going to invade Israel?

If you think the west is going to use any sort of military action against Israel, even if they go all out postal on the Palestinians, you are a fool. We won't protect truly sovereign nations from the Russians with military forces and you think we are going to protect Palestine under any scenario realistically conceivable? There is no way in hell the US public will support US troops or military assets to be used against Israel.

The absolute best you can hope for is sanctions and even then I'd wager that Israel gives the UN the finger and basically says "watcha gonna do about it". The answer is absolutely nothing of real substance.

 

[Darwin333]

lol, you are so dumb its funny because anybody who isnt a brainwashed american jew knows everything im saying is 100% true. you dont realize it but you are like those stupid people in north korea who sing songs about how kim jong un runs faster than a tiger. you are that brainwashed



dont worry though, the mask has been pulled off and the israeli monster is shown for what it is, a new nazi germany. you do realize that the only reason there hasn't been a coalition to invade israel is because the US has prevented any such coalition from forming? now that obama is done with bibi, he will tell our UN rep to stop blocking resolutions against israel, and then there will be a 'coalition of the willing'. guess how many nations would love the chance to join a coalition to invade israel? it wont come to that because israel will back down and withdraw to pre-67 borders, they are pussies and babies... israelis are well known to be cowards in the face of causalties. so they are petrified of losses. they will give up the land, and we will take their nukes, and they will be relegated to the fate of their neighbors (obscurity)

I seem to recall something from my highschool history classes about Israel kicking a few asses, against great odds even. They have the military, the technology and the battlefield experience to put up a hell of a fight. Even if the nation as a whole didn't like Israel we wouldn't go fucking with them. The outrage from the US population over even a few hundred US casualties fighting Israel would cause an uproar not seen in half a century.

 

[Fern]

Talk of the USA using force against Israel is beyond stupid.

IMO, Obama and the Democrats need to be damn careful with the subject of Israel. Israel has a lot of popular support among (non-Jewish) Americans. Trying to turn away from Israel and move toward the Palestinians and Iran will not be popular except among the relatively few hard core lefties.

People think a ridiculously high percentage of voters already think Obama is a Muslim. It'll go much higher.

And if Obama pursues this change it's going to affect the Democratic Presidential candidate, and not in a good way.

Fern

 

[touchstone]

I seem to recall something from my highschool history classes about Israel kicking a few asses, against great odds even. They have the military, the technology and the battlefield experience to put up a hell of a fight. Even if the nation as a whole didn't like Israel we wouldn't go fucking with them. The outrage from the US population over even a few hundred US casualties fighting Israel would cause an uproar not seen in half a century.

there wont be any invasion or fight with israel, they could easily be brought to their knees through economic means if the US wasnt there to protect them. sanctions are very very seriously draining on even a robust economy like iran's, israel's economy would crumble. it is already crap




i woke up this morning and saw that none of the threads were to my liking so i made my own. its always fun to talk about phase people and there is always a defense force to battle

 

[Darwin333]

there wont be any invasion or fight with israel, they could easily be brought to their knees through economic means if the US wasnt there to protect them. sanctions are very very seriously draining on even a robust economy like iran's, israel's economy would crumble. it is already crap




i woke up this morning and saw that none of the threads were to my liking so i made my own. its always fun to talk about phase people and there is always a defense force to battle

Are phase people from the same galaxy as the lizard people or are they two entirely different threats?

 

[MongGrel]

there wont be any invasion or fight with israel, they could easily be brought to their knees through economic means if the US wasnt there to protect them. sanctions are very very seriously draining on even a robust economy like iran's, israel's economy would crumble. it is already crap




i woke up this morning and saw that none of the threads were to my liking so i made my own. its always fun to talk about phase people and there is always a defense force to battle

You must have woke up this morning and decided to take some other drug.

St Pattys hangover still, or what ?

 

[Jhhnn]

Talk of the USA using force against Israel is beyond stupid.

IMO, Obama and the Democrats need to be damn careful with the subject of Israel. Israel has a lot of popular support among (non-Jewish) Americans. Trying to turn away from Israel and move toward the Palestinians and Iran will not be popular except among the relatively few hard core lefties.

People think a ridiculously high percentage of voters already think Obama is a Muslim. It'll go much higher.

And if Obama pursues this change it's going to affect the Democratic Presidential candidate, and not in a good way.

Fern

And you forget that Bibi has revealed the true non-peaceful intent of his govt wrt the Palestinians. The illusion that Israel ever sought such peace was a thin veneer over the truth. Once that veneer is scratched, it's obvious that 40 years of peace negotiations were only intended to buy time for expropriation. He cast his own sincerity entirely in doubt & it's unlikely that he'll do anything that could regain our trust.

Israel is highly dependent on trade & on the US for military supplies, like spare parts & ordnance. Subjected to the same sort of UN sanctions as Iran, they'd be in very bad shape rather quickly.

 

[MongGrel]

And you forget that Bibi has revealed the true non-peaceful intent of his govt wrt the Palestinians. The illusion that Israel ever sought such peace was a thin veneer over the truth. Once that veneer is scratched, it's obvious that 40 years of peace negotiations were only intended to buy time for expropriation. He cast his own sincerity entirely in doubt & it's unlikely that he'll do anything that could regain our trust.

Israel is highly dependent on trade & on the US for military supplies, like spare parts & ordnance. Subjected to the same sort of UN sanctions as Iran, they'd be in very bad shape rather quickly.

+1

 

[touchstone]

Are phase people from the same galaxy as the lizard people or are they two entirely different threats?

lizard people? nah i was marathon watching intervention and one of the dudes was addicted to PCP. all he did all day was snort lines of PCP and search for 'phase people' with a flashlight he had and a ladder. he would climb all over the place and talk to the camera man about how they can travel in shadows and stuff, it was adorable. i commandeered the term from him and i will try to popularize it as a term for jews


did you know that phase people have earned more than 50% of all the nobel prizes ever given?

 

[Harabec]

Wow, I thought P&N had low standards...but then you posted.

 

[Omar F1]

What type of defense equipment? Honestly from a basic guess I would say that concealment and mobility are probably the most powerful defense that Hamas or Hezbollah could have right now.

That's why many Hamas supporters grew tired of this; civilians pay the huge price for Hamas rockets, not them.

Who kept hammering Gaza in each and every attack? It's Israel's air force in which the Palestinian resistance got nothing to repel their attacks.
If Iran was serious enough, they would have developed/smuggled anti-air weapons for Hamas since many years ago, which didn't happen and probably never would.


Lets get another viewpoint: As we know Iran has kept supplying Hamas with basic infantry weapons and basic short-ranged rockets, which did no real harm on Israel through the past years. Yet, it kept provoking the Israelis as more and more Palestinian souls and houses have been lost because of that (people are increasingly getting tired of this).

So again, other than bringing chaos into Palestine - to a less degree than they did to Iraq, Lebanon before, and now Yemen - what Iran have accomplished for the Muslim world?

And here lets not forget what the US had done to Iraq's former Sunni leader, the old guy had been toppled, killed and the authority was handled to pro-Iran Shites for no apparent reason. If Iran was an enemy to US/Israel then there wouldn't be a chance on earth for US to gift Iraq's control to Iran.

Now that leads me to your earlier point

Finally we are going to start interacting with the Shiites with the logical respect and analysis they have deserved for years now.

I'd ask what are the main US interests in the region? Simply stable oil supply and Israel protection, which we have successfully provided through the past decades. Therefore, why do you think that Shiites could fare any better than what the Sunni had done so.

 

[cabri]

That's why many Hamas supporters grew tired of this; civilians pay the huge price for Hamas rockets, not them.

Who kept hammering Gaza in each and every attack? It's Israel's air force in which the Palestinian resistance got nothing to repel their attacks.
If Iran was serious enough, they would have developed/smuggled anti-air weapons for Hamas since many years ago, which didn't happen and probably never would.


Lets get another viewpoint: As we know Iran has kept supplying Hamas with basic infantry weapons and basic short-ranged rockets, which did no real harm on Israel through the past years. Yet, it kept provoking the Israelis as more and more Palestinian souls and houses have been lost because of that (people are increasingly getting tired of this).

So again, other than bringing chaos into Palestine - to a less degree than they did to Iraq, Lebanon before, and now Yemen - what Iran have accomplished for the Muslim world?

Iran has acted as an behind the scenes provoker.
1) Keeps the Arab/Muslim world feeling that Iran is against Israel - on there side
2) Ensures that the militants will be able to continue to be a PITA to Israel, but not a serious challenge
3) It is Iran's interest to keep the issue smoldering - and they have plenty of puppets
3) Iran generates no real exposure to the world for these issues that can not be explained/ignored. People are against Israel because of the Palestinian situation - case closed

 

[norseamd]

I'd ask what are the main US interests in the region? Simply stable oil supply and Israel protection, which we have successfully provided through the past decades. Therefore, why do you think that Shiites could fare any better than what the Sunni had done so.

No I would like to interact with both Sunni and Shiites. My point is that we have given interaction to the Sunni for the last decades but because the Iranians overthrew the American oil supplier in the Iranian Shah we have treated most of the Shiites in the world with exaggerated hate and dismissal. Granted we did interact with the Iraqi Shiites in their rebellion against Hussein but than again we never actually gave them real support and Hussein slaughtered them after their rebellion was not able to work together.

 

[norseamd]

Iran has acted as an behind the scenes provoker.

Granted but who does not? What about the Saudi and Qataris? And the Libyans under Gaddaffi and now the Turks under Erdogan?

 

[norseamd]

People are against Israel because of the Palestinian situation - case closed

Both sides might be just as bad but the Israelis have usually had the support of being considered the moral side and now that we know they are just as bad that works against them. But that is still less than the fact that not only can they act more morally considering their quality of life and superior position but also that they are instigating the situation overall by annexing Palestinian land and forcing Palestinians into a stateless life as nobodies who often have to work for their very oppressors while possibly being arrested even when de facto it is Israeli doctrine to hire the Palestinians. Reminds me of how much America is using Mexican labor while also arresting those same Mexicans who work for us in our economy.

 

[cabri]

Granted but who does not? What about the Saudi and Qataris? And the Libyans under Gaddaffi and now the Turks under Erdogan?

While the oil money has flown to the militants; it seems as if most arm are coming from Iran directly (unless intercepted) or via Syria to Hezbollah.
Syria does not have a real arms industry, nor Lebanon to feed Hezbollah.
What is going into Hamas/Gaza seems to be mainly parts and equipment to fabricate munitions - all being smuggled in via tunnels and/or "humanitarian" supplies.
I have no real theories on munitions getting to the West Bank - I expect that Jordan is keep a tight lid on their side

Both sides might be just as bad but the Israelis have usually had the support of being considered the moral side and now that we know they are just as bad that works against them. But that is still less than the fact that not only can they act more morally considering their quality of life and superior position but also that they are instigating the situation overall by annexing Palestinian land and forcing Palestinians into a stateless life as nobodies who often have to work for their very oppressors while possibly being arrested even when de facto it is Israeli doctrine to hire the Palestinians. Reminds me of how much America is using Mexican labor while also arresting those same Mexicans who work for us in our economy.

I fully agree with both your points.

 

[norseamd]

Not fully trusting the Iranians but it is worth reading the opinion.

http://www.realclearworld.com/articles/2015/03/19/iran_could_be_a_credible_ally_111060.html

 

[norseamd]

While the oil money has flown to the militants; it seems as if most arm are coming from Iran directly (unless intercepted) or via Syria to Hezbollah.

Maybe as far as support to Syria, Hamas, and Hezbollah but overall in the Islamic world there are many more countries than just Iran who have used soft power to influence world affairs and conflicts.