update: quasi-fixed w/ pics. Electrical wiring, how hard is it to fix this?

[NeoPTLD]

My bedroom and attached closet's lights are wired really weird and whoever wired this must be an idiot. Power from panel comes to the outlet on bedroom side, then it feeds the light switch. The lightswitch feeds into closet light. The bedroom light is downstream of closet light and the junction is made at the closet light. As a result, the two lights can not be controlled independently.

I would like to get the bedroom light wiring off from the junction at the closet light and bring it down to the switch box, so I can install another switch to control the lights independently. How difficult is it to do that?


I realized fooling around with a new set of wire is way too much work and as someone else have suggested, I went to Home Cheapo and bought a plastic pull-string switched socket. It's not designed so well and string comes in very close proximity of the lamp. I just hope it won't melt the scorch the string.
New socket

Old light


Not surprisingly, old setup using two 32 watt fluorescent lamps gives more light than one 100W lightbulb.

Maybe I should get a light socket to outlet adapter, then connect the fluorescent light to the socket so I can control it with the socket's string.

 

[dman]

Originally posted by: NeoPTLD
My bedroom and attached closet's lights are wired really weird and whoever wired this must be an idiot. Power from panel comes to the outlet on bedroom side, then it feeds the light switch. The lightswitch feeds into closet light. The bedroom light is downstream of closet light and the junction is made at the closet light. As a result, the two lights can not be controlled independently.

I would like to get the bedroom light wiring off from the junction at the closet light and bring it down to the switch box, so I can install another switch to control the lights independently. How difficult is it to do that?

Weird. How difficult is it to run a cable from the closet across the ceiling and down the wall, seems like that's in the top few steps?

 

[NogginBoink]

It's easy, if you can get access to the attic/walls.

It's also easy to kill yourself if you don't know what you're doing. 😛

 

[Eli]

Originally posted by: NogginBoink
It's easy, if you can get access to the attic/walls.

It's also easy to kill yourself if you don't know what you're doing. 😛

Just make SURE the power is off.

Flipping the breakers might not be enough, you never know .. it sounds like someone ran out of wire or something. I'd check with a multimeter before touching anything.

 

[aircooled]

If it's a rental I wouldn't waste the time/money. Do you own the place?

 

[Ornery]

Put a pull chain switch in the closet light. It won't be able to be turned on without the room light on, but it's better than what you have now. Otherwise, you'll need to punch a hole in the wall for a second light switch. You'll then have to fish a new wire from there to either the closet light or ceiling light, which may not be easy at all.

 

[HomeBrewerDude]

its easy, but it will take you about 4 hours.


before you start playing iwth electricity you should read up on it a bit.

 

[OulOat]

Electricity is fun. Dying, as far as I know, isn't fun. So try not to do both at once.

 

[NeoPTLD]

I'm all aware of the safety issues.

closet.jpg
That's how it's wired right now. The path in red is what I would like to do.

 

[kranky]

After looking at your sketch, it looks like you could replace the switch you have now with a box that has two switches. Run new wires from the room light to the switch (or pull back the wires connecting the two lights, moving one end to the new switch and leaving the end at the room light alone). Then at the switch you should be able to splice into the wires coming from the outlet, and run those wires to the new second switch.

That would give you wiring from the outlet to each of the two switches, and separate wiring from the switches to each of the lights.

Please ensure you know how to do it safely!

 

[rival]

looks like you have two options, run wire from the bedroom light to your switch, or from your closet light to the switch...

it all depends on if you have access to the attic above, are both fixtures ceiling mounted?

it can be done fairly easily, probably take an hour depending on what its like in the attic, hardest part will be drilling through the stud above your switch (unless the old wire hole is large enough) and getting the wire into the switch

are you putting in a new switch for the closet in a differnet location (from the bedroom switch) or a 2-gang switchbox in the same place? if you do a 2gang box it should be fairly easy in fishing the wire down the wall to the switch because of the hole you will cut in the sheetrock

-rival

 

[syberscott]

Originally posted by: Ornery
Put a pull chain switch in the closet light. It won't be able to be turned on without the room light on, but it's better than what you have now. Otherwise, you'll need to punch a hole in the wall for a second light switch. You'll then have to fish a new wire from there to either the closet light or ceiling light, which may not be easy at all.

I agree with this solution. And BTW people, 120 Volts AC is not that dangerous. Just wear good shoes and don't hold onto something grounded with your other hand. It's pretty hard to die from it. The most you'll get is a jolt and a little tingling. Believe me, I've done it lots.

 

[rival]

Originally posted by: syberscott

Originally posted by: Ornery Put a pull chain switch in the closet light. It won't be able to be turned on without the room light on, but it's better than what you have now. Otherwise, you'll need to punch a hole in the wall for a second light switch. You'll then have to fish a new wire from there to either the closet light or ceiling light, which may not be easy at all.

I agree with this solution. And BTW people, 120 Volts AC is not that dangerous. Just wear good shoes and don't hold onto something grounded with your other hand. It's pretty hard to die from it. The most you'll get is a jolt and a little tingling. Believe me, I've done it lots.

more people die from 120v ac than any other voltage, IT CAN KILL YOU

 

[NutBucket]

Originally posted by: rival

Originally posted by: syberscott

Originally posted by: Ornery Put a pull chain switch in the closet light. It won't be able to be turned on without the room light on, but it's better than what you have now. Otherwise, you'll need to punch a hole in the wall for a second light switch. You'll then have to fish a new wire from there to either the closet light or ceiling light, which may not be easy at all.

I agree with this solution. And BTW people, 120 Volts AC is not that dangerous. Just wear good shoes and don't hold onto something grounded with your other hand. It's pretty hard to die from it. The most you'll get is a jolt and a little tingling. Believe me, I've done it lots.

more people die from 120v ac than any other voltage, IT CAN KILL YOU

Only because its the most common one in the US

 

[MercenaryForHire]

Originally posted by: syberscott

Originally posted by: Ornery
Put a pull chain switch in the closet light. It won't be able to be turned on without the room light on, but it's better than what you have now. Otherwise, you'll need to punch a hole in the wall for a second light switch. You'll then have to fish a new wire from there to either the closet light or ceiling light, which may not be easy at all.

I agree with this solution. And BTW people, 120 Volts AC is not that dangerous. Just wear good shoes and don't hold onto something grounded with your other hand. It's pretty hard to die from it. The most you'll get is a jolt and a little tingling. Believe me, I've done it lots.

Um, yu0 = teh dumbx0r.

Standard US household current is plenty to kill a human. It's not the voltage that fries you, it's the amps. As little as 0.5A can stop a human heart.

- M4H

 

[rival]

Originally posted by: NutBucket

Originally posted by: rival

Originally posted by: syberscott

Originally posted by: Ornery Put a pull chain switch in the closet light. It won't be able to be turned on without the room light on, but it's better than what you have now. Otherwise, you'll need to punch a hole in the wall for a second light switch. You'll then have to fish a new wire from there to either the closet light or ceiling light, which may not be easy at all.

I agree with this solution. And BTW people, 120 Volts AC is not that dangerous. Just wear good shoes and don't hold onto something grounded with your other hand. It's pretty hard to die from it. The most you'll get is a jolt and a little tingling. Believe me, I've done it lots.

more people die from 120v ac than any other voltage, IT CAN KILL YOU

Only because its the most common one in the US

yea yea yea i know, but ive gotten some pretty nasty 'tingles' from 120v before, 277 is the worst though :frown:

 

[NutBucket]

Originally posted by: rival

Originally posted by: NutBucket

Originally posted by: rival

Originally posted by: syberscott

Originally posted by: Ornery Put a pull chain switch in the closet light. It won't be able to be turned on without the room light on, but it's better than what you have now. Otherwise, you'll need to punch a hole in the wall for a second light switch. You'll then have to fish a new wire from there to either the closet light or ceiling light, which may not be easy at all.

I agree with this solution. And BTW people, 120 Volts AC is not that dangerous. Just wear good shoes and don't hold onto something grounded with your other hand. It's pretty hard to die from it. The most you'll get is a jolt and a little tingling. Believe me, I've done it lots.

more people die from 120v ac than any other voltage, IT CAN KILL YOU

Only because its the most common one in the US

yea yea yea i know, but ive gotten some pretty nasty 'tingles' from 120v before, 277 is the worst though :frown:

Yep, been there, done that.... Not fun but I'm still here to tell the tale. I still dislike car charging systems more. I guess they've been less friendly to me😉

 

[olds]

Fishing wire is no fun.
The easiest solution for someone in this situation, with little or no electrical experience, would be to use a battery powered light. I have one behind my computer tower so I can see back there when I need to. Just push on the light cover and the light comes on.

 

[syberscott]

Originally posted by: MercenaryForHire

Originally posted by: syberscott

Originally posted by: Ornery
Put a pull chain switch in the closet light. It won't be able to be turned on without the room light on, but it's better than what you have now. Otherwise, you'll need to punch a hole in the wall for a second light switch. You'll then have to fish a new wire from there to either the closet light or ceiling light, which may not be easy at all.

I agree with this solution. And BTW people, 120 Volts AC is not that dangerous. Just wear good shoes and don't hold onto something grounded with your other hand. It's pretty hard to die from it. The most you'll get is a jolt and a little tingling. Believe me, I've done it lots.

Um, yu0 = teh dumbx0r.

Standard US household current is plenty to kill a human. It's not the voltage that fries you, it's the amps. As little as 0.5A can stop a human heart.

- M4H

Don't give me that "it's not the volts it's the amps" crap. It's a combination of both. When is the last time you saw someone die from a AA battery?😛 Seriously though, all the electricians I know, including myself, work on live circuits all the time. Peoples fear of electricity is greater than its danger just because you can't see it.

 

[rival]

Originally posted by: syberscott

Originally posted by: MercenaryForHire

Originally posted by: syberscott

Originally posted by: Ornery Put a pull chain switch in the closet light. It won't be able to be turned on without the room light on, but it's better than what you have now. Otherwise, you'll need to punch a hole in the wall for a second light switch. You'll then have to fish a new wire from there to either the closet light or ceiling light, which may not be easy at all.

I agree with this solution. And BTW people, 120 Volts AC is not that dangerous. Just wear good shoes and don't hold onto something grounded with your other hand. It's pretty hard to die from it. The most you'll get is a jolt and a little tingling. Believe me, I've done it lots.

Um, yu0 = teh dumbx0r. Standard US household current is plenty to kill a human. It's not the voltage that fries you, it's the amps. As little as 0.5A can stop a human heart. - M4H

Don't give me that "it's not the volts it's the amps" crap. It's a combination of both. When is the last time you saw someone die from a AA battery?😛 Seriously though, all the electricians I know, including myself, work on live circuits all the time. Peoples fear of electricity is greater than its danger just because you can't see it.

did you goto school for this or just pull it out of your ass

 

[syberscott]

Originally posted by: rival

Originally posted by: syberscott

Originally posted by: MercenaryForHire

Originally posted by: syberscott

Originally posted by: Ornery Put a pull chain switch in the closet light. It won't be able to be turned on without the room light on, but it's better than what you have now. Otherwise, you'll need to punch a hole in the wall for a second light switch. You'll then have to fish a new wire from there to either the closet light or ceiling light, which may not be easy at all.

I agree with this solution. And BTW people, 120 Volts AC is not that dangerous. Just wear good shoes and don't hold onto something grounded with your other hand. It's pretty hard to die from it. The most you'll get is a jolt and a little tingling. Believe me, I've done it lots.

Um, yu0 = teh dumbx0r. Standard US household current is plenty to kill a human. It's not the voltage that fries you, it's the amps. As little as 0.5A can stop a human heart. - M4H

Don't give me that "it's not the volts it's the amps" crap. It's a combination of both. When is the last time you saw someone die from a AA battery?😛 Seriously though, all the electricians I know, including myself, work on live circuits all the time. Peoples fear of electricity is greater than its danger just because you can't see it.

did you goto school for this or just pull it out of your ass

I'm a certified electrical tech and I also have two years of my electrical apprenticeship under my belt. I've worked on electrical systems ranging from navy ships to residential. I had to quit my apprenticeship due to a serious knee problem and now I'm designing crosswalk lighting circuits for a civil engineering firm in my hometown. You decide.

 

[NeoPTLD]

Ok guys let's get back on topics here. Everything I'm working on is downstream of that outlet in the diagram and I will be shutting off the power to it at the panel, so safety is assured.

By the way, this is a condo, so it's not constructed like an ordinary house. I just checked everywhere from within my unit and I can not find any pop up access to attic.

The only problem I am facing is how I go about bringing the wire from bedroom fixture to the switch box.

I can get one of those duplex switch(two horizontally operated switches stacked vertically on one assembly made to occuply the same space as single vertical operated switch) that fits in a single box to avoid the hassle of gangbox switching once I can get the wire to the box.

 

[MercenaryForHire]

Originally posted by: syberscott

Originally posted by: rival

Originally posted by: syberscott

Originally posted by: MercenaryForHire

Originally posted by: syberscott

Originally posted by: Ornery Put a pull chain switch in the closet light. It won't be able to be turned on without the room light on, but it's better than what you have now. Otherwise, you'll need to punch a hole in the wall for a second light switch. You'll then have to fish a new wire from there to either the closet light or ceiling light, which may not be easy at all.

I agree with this solution. And BTW people, 120 Volts AC is not that dangerous. Just wear good shoes and don't hold onto something grounded with your other hand. It's pretty hard to die from it. The most you'll get is a jolt and a little tingling. Believe me, I've done it lots.

Um, yu0 = teh dumbx0r. Standard US household current is plenty to kill a human. It's not the voltage that fries you, it's the amps. As little as 0.5A can stop a human heart. - M4H

Don't give me that "it's not the volts it's the amps" crap. It's a combination of both. When is the last time you saw someone die from a AA battery?😛 Seriously though, all the electricians I know, including myself, work on live circuits all the time. Peoples fear of electricity is greater than its danger just because you can't see it.

did you goto school for this or just pull it out of your ass

I'm a certified electrical tech and I also have two years of my electrical apprenticeship under my belt. I've worked on electrical systems ranging from navy ships to residential. I had to quit my apprenticeship due to a serious knee problem and now I'm designing crosswalk lighting circuits for a civil engineering firm in my hometown. You decide.

<Doctor> Take two AAs and call me in the morning. </Doctor>

- M4H

 

[syberscott]

Originally posted by: NeoPTLD
Ok guys let's get back on topics here. Everything I'm working on is downstream of that outlet in the diagram and I will be shutting off the power to it at the panel, so safety is assured.

By the way, this is a condo, so it's not constructed like an ordinary house. I just checked everywhere from within my unit and I can not find any pop up access to attic.

The only problem I am facing is how I go about bringing the wire from bedroom fixture to the switch box.

I can get one of those duplex switch(two horizontally operated switches stacked vertically on one assembly made to occuply the same space as single vertical operated switch) that fits in a single box to avoid the hassle of gangbox switching once I can get the wire to the box.

Without cutting drywall, this might not be possible. I really would just go with the pull-string fixture for the closet. Is there a reason you don't want to do this?

 

[NeoPTLD]

Without cutting drywall, this might not be possible. I really would just go with the pull-string fixture for the closet. Is there a reason you don't want to do this?

I wanted them to be completely independently controllable. It's nice to be able to do from same switch panel too. If I added an auxliary switch such as pull string switch, it allows me to keep the closet light off without turning the light off, but since closet light is downstream of room light, the room light must be on for closet light to work.

After realizing how difficult it is to get new wires through, I might have to go with auxilary switch.


By the way, upon further inspection, the jumper wire from closet fixture to bedroom fixture is a 12AWG. All other wires are 14AWG as normally found on a 15A circuit. I don't understand why whoever wired this used a 12AWG for a single lamp fixture that's merely 10ft away.