Update: Popcorn ceilings and asbestos

[TastesLikeChicken]

Long story relatively short...the wife and I are moving. Management pissed her off at her old job and she ended up getting an offer for a job in another city at significantly higher pay and benefits, and for a very stable international firm, which she accepted. The new company is paying for relocation, including a corporate buyout of our house...or so we thought. Today we were told that because our house was built in the 80s, and has popcorn ceilings, that it might contain asbestos. Because of that the company is balking at the corporate buyout.

We have 2 choices:

1. We can test the ceilings for asbestos. If there is none present the buyout is not a problem. However, if it is present there will be no buyout and we have to disclose that fact to potential buyers and would likely have to have the problem fixed, which would cost @ 20K to remedy.

2. We can put it on the market ourselves, without any testing, and hope the place sells.

Option 2 probably isn't a huge problem. We have a waterfront home that is fairly desirable. Still, option 1 is nice because the buyout automatically happens 60 days after the house is on the market, so it's easier to plan on buying a new place.

I've been searching on the internet for info on popcorn ceilings and asbestos and find a lot of conflicting information. Some claim that most popcorn ceilings from the 80s have asbestos while others say it's actually very rare.

Does anyone here have experience with this?

Update: We decided not to have the popcorn tested. The house was listed last Friday. The first couple to come through fell in love and made a nearly full-price offer on Saturday. They even wrote us a letter saying how they've been searching the area for months and that the place was perfect for them and their 2 dogs. A contract was signed on Monday. The price is way below what the couple is pre-qualified for and the guy is a cop. Everything seems very solid.

Now we just need to find a place in our new location.

Moving sucks.

 

[smackababy]

I'd get it tested.


And, popcorn ceilings are such a pain in the ass to do anything to.

 

[disappoint]

Asbestos was banned in 1977. Is your ceiling newer than that or older?

 

[OverVolt]

Asbestos was banned in 1977. Is your ceiling newer than that or older?

In early formulations it often contained white asbestos fibers. When asbestos was banned in ceiling treatments by the Clean Air Act of 1978 in the United States,[1] popcorn ceilings fell out of favor in much of the country. However, in order to minimize economic hardship to suppliers and installers, existing inventories of asbestos-bearing texturing materials were exempt from the ban, so it is possible to find asbestos in popcorn ceilings that were applied through the 1980s. After the ban, popcorn ceiling materials were created using a paper-based or Styrofoam product to create the texture, rather than asbestos. Textured ceilings remain common in residential construction in the Upper Midwest of the United States.

Although the process is messy, popcorn texturing can be easily removed by spraying it with water to soften it, then scraping the material off with a large scraping trowel or putty knife.[2] As the texturing may have been applied before the ban on asbestos, its removal should only be done by a licensed professional or after testing of a sample by a qualified laboratory has ruled out asbestos content.

Wiki

 

[DrPizza]

How about option 3:
Don't test it.
Remove it yourself. Follow the advice above - dampen it, then scrape it off. Wear a respirator when you do so, just in case. It doesn't hurt your skin, it's not absorbed through skin. Except for particles that are inhaled, it's rather harmless. So, protect yourself from inhaling particles (dampening helps significantly). Double-bag it, and clean the shit out of the house, plus repaint the ceiling. Maybe even have a drywall guy come in and apply a nice new texture to the ceiling.

That way, if it was, you never knew it, and it's not there now.

 

[TastesLikeChicken]

I considered option 3. I did it in our previous house so I know the drill. It's just not doable though for a number of reasons. If there was no furniture in the house I might consider it but with all of the furniture in the way it's not feasible. Plus, I'm no spring chicken anymore and I doubt my back would last past doing the first room without a convalescent period of at least a few weeks afterwards.

 

[poofyhairguy]

I think I would pick option 2. I am pretty sure a regular home inspection won't include testing, and this is one of those things I personally would rather not know.

 

[Imp]

Wouldn't you essentially have to tell any potential buyers that the ceiling MAY have asbestos anyway?

You didn't test it yet, so you do not for a fact know if it is asbestos. But you, for a fact, now know that there is a potential for asbestos because the company offering the buyout told you so. Obviously, proving this would be harder.

 

[TastesLikeChicken]

It's not something I have to disclose to any potential buyer because the absolute facts are unknown. It's a potential issue that either they should already know about or their real estate agent should make them aware of. It's akin to sinkholes. I live in the sinkhole capital of the world. It's possible that there is a sinkhole directly below my house that could collapse at any moment. I don't have to make the buyer aware of that though.

 

[poofyhairguy]

Exactly, this company just has a blanket policy about it probably because they got burned once.

That is why door 2 looks better, because if you go through door one and it is asbestos then legal liabilities and disclosures come in.

 

[Theb]

When in the 80s was the house made? I doubt the stuff was sitting in a warehouse for years or the suppliers would go broke.

 

[tynopik]

get it tested anonymously

 

[slayer202]

option 1

 

[highland145]

get it tested anonymously

What do you do if it is?

 

[KeithP]

Won't most buyers insist on a home inspection and wouldn't most competent home inspectors raise this issue to the buyer and suggest the house get tested?

Plus, if the house does have asbestos, right or wrong the new homers may come after you. Is that something you really want to deal with? Courts and lawyers?

I say you get the place tested and deal with the outcome, option 1.

-KeithP

 

[Eug]

How about option 3:
Don't test it.
Remove it yourself. Follow the advice above - dampen it, then scrape it off. Wear a respirator when you do so, just in case. It doesn't hurt your skin, it's not absorbed through skin. Except for particles that are inhaled, it's rather harmless. So, protect yourself from inhaling particles (dampening helps significantly). Double-bag it, and clean the shit out of the house, plus repaint the ceiling. Maybe even have a drywall guy come in and apply a nice new texture to the ceiling.

That way, if it was, you never knew it, and it's not there now.

Personally I would never consider an asbestos removal a DIY job.

Plus I think it's pretty much impossible to do it DIY legally anyway.

 

[KeithTalent]

Personally I would never consider an asbestos removal a DIY job.

Plus I think it's pretty much impossible to do it DIY legally anyway.

Yeah this. Also, even if you clear it off, I would expect the firm would want some sort of receipt from an actual business showing it was cleared properly before paying anything out.

Option 1 makes the most sense to me.

KT

 

[gorcorps]

Realtors I've dealt with will recommend an asbestos test if there's a possibility (and I believe some areas mandate it if the house was built before a certain time). I'd say the chances of you selling it without a test is slim to none. IMO pay for the test yourself now.

 

[OutHouse]

Although the process is messy, popcorn texturing can be easily removed by spraying it with water to soften it, then scraping the material off with a large scraping trowel or putty knife

just did this on one of our bedrooms. god what a mess.

 

[OutHouse]

How about option 3:
Don't test it.
Remove it yourself. Follow the advice above - dampen it, then scrape it off. Wear a respirator when you do so, just in case. It doesn't hurt your skin, it's not absorbed through skin. Except for particles that are inhaled, it's rather harmless. So, protect yourself from inhaling particles (dampening helps significantly). Double-bag it, and clean the shit out of the house, plus repaint the ceiling. Maybe even have a drywall guy come in and apply a nice new texture to the ceiling.

That way, if it was, you never knew it, and it's not there now.

i would never do this. dont you see all those mesothelioma commercials?

 

[Strk]

Realtors I've dealt with will recommend an asbestos test if there's a possibility (and I believe some areas mandate it if the house was built before a certain time). I'd say the chances of you selling it without a test is slim to none. IMO pay for the test yourself now.

And he may always have to deal with buyers who want it run anyways.

 

[TastesLikeChicken]

Won't most buyers insist on a home inspection and wouldn't most competent home inspectors raise this issue to the buyer and suggest the house get tested?

Plus, if the house does have asbestos, right or wrong the new homers may come after you. Is that something you really want to deal with? Courts and lawyers?

I say you get the place tested and deal with the outcome, option 1.

-KeithP

I think there is some misunderstanding about asbestos and popcorn ceilings. There is no concern regarding asbestos exposure to those with popcorn ceilings. Nor is it illegal to have popcorn ceilings containing asbestos. Many, many older homes sill do. The only time there is an exposure danger is when removing it which is why HEPA breather masks, protective suits, and special disposal bags are used to do that. No law, at least in my area, mandates that it must be removed.

So any subsequent home owners would have no legal reason or recourse to come after me.

 

[TastesLikeChicken]

When in the 80s was the house made? I doubt the stuff was sitting in a warehouse for years or the suppliers would go broke.

It was built in '81. Even though asbestos was banned in the late '70s, the gov, in their infinite wisdom, decided to allow suppliers to sell their existing stock for use.

 

[TastesLikeChicken]

Update: We decided not to have the popcorn tested. The house was listed last Friday. The first couple to come through fell in love and made a nearly full-price offer on Saturday. They even wrote us a letter saying how they've been searching the area for months and that the place was perfect for them and their 2 dogs. A contract was signed on Monday. The price is way below what the couple is pre-qualified for and the guy is a cop. Everything seems very solid.

Now we just need to find a place in our new location.

Moving sucks.

 

[dn7309]

Popcorn ceiling sound like a HGTV House Hunters problem