UPDATE -- I've been a soldering-ignoramus for 35 years! See post#4: Seeking Comment about a Fuse Box Extension

[BonzaiDuck]

I continue, little by little, to pursue my "modernization" plan for my '95 Trooper.

The MP3 player I added -- explained in a thread that's slowly going stale (but it had 1K views!) -- required a piggy-back fuse-tap. It overhangs another fuse, related to my Anti-Theft System, which is also on the schedule to resurrect and repair. I'll probably post a thread about that project -- later. It was a "mystery solved" as I remember some things I did back in September 2018, when my rear window was shattered and then fixed. Interesting story, but -- for later.

Even so, to resurrect the Anti-Theft system, add an interior LED lighting system and a backup camera, I figured it was time to scrap this "fuse-tap" nonsense -- at least, almost.

So I decided to add a "fuse box extension". These things are pretty simple. Some are bulky. Some have little LED lights to warn that a fuse is blown. Some have screw terminals. Some have a construction that offers several of the load connections connected together.

Here's the one I bought:



I took a 12-inch length of 14-guage wire, and soldered a brass fuse-tap to it. The tap will go on the load side of the ACC/accessory bank of fuses. The other end of the wire is soldered to six female spade connectors. Once the spade connectors are attached to the fuse-box extension shown here, they widen the assembly by maybe 1.5 inches. Of course, the connections are all solid.

After looking for a place near the OEM fuse-box to install this extension, I settled on a metal panel just below the OEM item. I'll probably use a patch of Flex-Seal tape to secure it to the panel, and I don't think it will just come off some time later very easily. That stuff is f***ing sticky! There's little way I can drill holes for sheet-metal screws and use that method, so the adhesive tape is the next best thing.

But there's still not a great deal of room for the assembly. And I'm thinking I'd like to just solder my blue 14-gauge wire across all the load side male spades. Of course, there's the risk of damage to the plastic extension box from the heat conducted from the solder gun.

But I have a table-top clamp or vise, and I've discovered that I can take a pair of needle-nose pliers, clamp the desired item to solder, hold the pliers tight and clamp them in the heavy vise. The needle-nose pliers then act as a heat-sink.

Once I have good soldered connections across the spades or blades, I can then just coat the wire and the blades with silicon adhesive/sealant. I can even wrap it all in self-adhesive rubber hose-bandage or repair tape, and it should all be well-insulated.

Anyone with a lot of soldering experience want to comment on my plan here, before I sit down and actually do it?

 

[herm0016]

I would use the heat shrink crimp ons. lately, i have been getting them at harbor freight, and they have been of good quality. i worry about mechanical stress at a hard mounted item, solder IMO has a tendency to break after a lot of cycles. crimp with heat shrink insulation is about the best in a vehicle. that also makes it easy to swap stuff around if you are trouble shooting something.

 

[BonzaiDuck]

I would use the heat shrink crimp ons. lately, i have been getting them at harbor freight, and they have been of good quality. i worry about mechanical stress at a hard mounted item, solder IMO has a tendency to break after a lot of cycles. crimp with heat shrink insulation is about the best in a vehicle. that also makes it easy to swap stuff around if you are trouble shooting something.

Yes -- I can see the "pros" about making changes. But I don't anticipate using the fuse-box extension for anything other than the ACC accessory load connection from the battery, through the fusible-link, and then through the ignition switch.

While I was sitting on the patio today with my tools, soldering iron, wire and bits and pieces, I could see how to do it. It would fulfill both your concerns and mine.

The objective -- (People will say I "overthink" things) -- is to minimize the number of metal-to-metal, crimp or interference-fit connections. For any typical ACC load-to-draw wiring at the OEM fuse-box, there are four such connections: the wire coming from the ignition switch "ACC" is fitted to a metal plate on the back side of the fuse-box with a very sturdy crimp connection. Then, there are two interference-fit metal-to-metal connections of the blade fuse itself. Then, another crimp-connection to the draw wire for any particular accessory. That makes four such connections.

So, I can put a female blade connector on a brass fuse-tap and my 12-gauge extension wire -- all soldered together, and the blade connector to fuse-tap is also a "crimp" or interference fit. But they will all be soldered together. Thus, so far, there is only one broken "interference-fit" connection at that point, which is the folded tip of the fuse-tap in the load side of an ACC fuse-holder.

Now, attention given to the other end of the wire, I get six uninsulated female blade connectors, and bend them where the "neck" with the crimp-tabs meets the rectangular part of the connector with the rolled sides that makes an interference fit with any male blade on the fuse-box extension. The female blade connectors are bent there at a right angle, with the crimp-tabs facing away from the blade -- outward.

Next, install these bent female blade connectors on all of the six male blades on the load side of the extension box. Strip off the end of the 12-gauge wire leaving the wire bare from its end across all the extension box blades. The wire should simply fit through all the channels with the crimp tabs of all the connectors.

Crimp all the tabs on the connectors, securing the wire. Clamp the assembly, and begin adding solder to all the wire-crimps -- these things solder easily without a lot of solder build-up. At this point, one can now solder the very tips of the extension-box blades to these previously-soldered joints with the wire. There shouldn't be a lot of trouble with heat transferred to the plastic part of the extension box and causing damage.

All the blade hardware functions as it is intended, but it is all soldered together. So that leaves the fuse-tap assembly, the two blade fuse insertion-points, and the draw-side blade-connector fittings as the only unsoldered connections in the assembly -- 1, 2, 3 -- a total of four -- no better but no worse than any of the OEM ACC wiring connections.

After that, I'll wrap the soldered connections at the extension-box with self-adhesive rubber repair bandage, and then coat it with silicon adhesive sealant. And the width of the extension-box assembly with all its wires connected is now reduced by almost 3/4".

YEs -- I know -- pictures would help.

"Sheltering in place" -- watching TV -- fixing home-cooked meals. I have all the time in the world to take, so I can make such a seeming small project absolutely perfect.

I'll have more threads to post. I solved the mystery of my "damaged" OEM Anti-Theft System. It's just a story about an old 73-year-old man, his memory lapses, and panic with troubles in 2018 when the rear window was shattered, door left open for two days, battery drained -- and I just chose to pull the Anti-Theft Fuse out of the fuse-box. Battery took 24 hours to charge, and by the time I had everything connected again, I'd forgotten what might have caused my Anti-Theft on/off-switch LED to flash -- as it currently does. No Fuse! And I remember now -- when I pulled that fuse out, the little spring retainers in the OEM fuse-box broke off.

So -- that's another reason I need this fuse-box extension.

 

[BonzaiDuck]

I think I started using a soldering iron or soldering gun around 1985, when I started messing with my PC ("micro-computer") hardware.

Never took a shop class in high-school. Never taught or guided as to how to solder things. I just "figured it out" on my own.

I've been soldering for 35 years without using resin flux! How stupid is that?!

 

[pcgeek11]

I think I started using a soldering iron or soldering gun around 1985, when I started messing with my PC ("micro-computer") hardware.

Never took a shop class in high-school. Never taught or guided as to how to solder things. I just "figured it out" on my own.

I've been soldering for 35 years without using resin flux! How stupid is that?!

Most of the solder I've seen has a resin core already in the solder.

Rosin and Acid Core Solders | The Harris Products Group

The Harris Products Group is a world leader in the design, development and manufacture of brazing, soldering and welding alloys and equipment, cutting and heating equipment, and gas distribution systems.

www.harrisproductsgroup.com

 

[Midwayman]

Here's a post on another forum that was helpful if you want to solder.

How to solder correctly (a not so brief lesson) - R/C Tech Forums

Radio and Electronics - How to solder correctly (a not so brief lesson) - A lot of people have misconceptions about soldering, others are misinformed, some have no clue where to start, and many are bad at it whether they know it or not. Hopefully This post will help everyone solder better, have...

www.rctech.net

 

[HarryLui]

When I add an aftermarket ECU and fusebox to my car, I use un-insulated butt connectors. Strip, crimp, heat shrink, then wireloop to protect.

 

[mindless1]

I don't know what you paid for that fuse block, or how inconvenient it would be if there is a failure where it needs replaced (thinking things from China can take a month to ship), but I would prefer using a screw terminal buss bar, to individual wires to each spade terminal.

On the other hand I can appreciate the space savings of soldering a single wire, the time and cost savings too if one is being really cheap about it.

If you have an adequate wattage soldering iron (say at least 40W), and a chisel tip in good shape (forget conical for this application), you can work fast and solder a wire without melting that block, but there are a couple issues I wonder about.

1) Why would you tap into the electrical system AFTER (on the load side of) the ACC/accessory bank of fuses? That just puts unnecessary current through them and you don't need double redundancy for fuses, but you DO need major brand fuses rather than generic Chinese ones that are typically passing far more current than their rating before blowing.

Okay I read more and now see what you're doing. Better would be to take the accessory feed that becomes live in accessory or run mode, and use that to trigger a relay for a new fused power feed from the battery. This will only increase current through the accessory circuit by some trivial amount, tens of mA at most to energize the relay coil.

2) Why do you need all these separate fuses if a a single 14ga wire can handle this? -OR- Can a single 14ga wire not handle all this?!!

Let's suppose this is just how you want to do it, and that will work, but here is what I'd do differently... I would get a piece of 12 gauge (or 14ga if that's all you have) solid core copper wire (type used in residential mains wiring), drill out the center holes on those spade lugs, and pass that single piece of wire through the length of them all.

You will probably need to firmly hold each lug in turn as you drill through them. You'd leave enough wire at the end of the row to form a loop for a better joint to your 14ga multi-strand jumper wire. You may also need closer to a 60W iron to do this rather than the 40W mentioned above.

Once you've slipped the 12ga wire through them, heat the wire rather than the lug, flowing the solder onto the junction. Once one is complete, wait for it to cool down a couple minutes before proceeding to the next one.

You don't have to rely on sticky tape if you just fashion a metal mounting bracket, that bolts on where convenient, then the fuse box mounts to that. Maybe that is difficult, depends on the area but I'd look into it.

You could have mixed results trying to heatsink this as you solder. Yes it keeps the far end cooler but also makes it take a lot longer to get the whole thing hot enough to melt solder. In some cases you might stay in a temperature zone hot enough to melt the plastic but not yet enough to melt the solder. I would not use this method if you have to get it right on the first try with only ONE fuse holder to try out the technique.

Rather than silicone sealant, I would sooner build a dam out of packing tape (common transparent type with acrylic adhesive) and flood fill the area with epoxy, after having used a stiff toothbrush and alcohol to get all the flux residue off. To clarify, the adhesive side of the sticky tape goes inward against the poured epoxy, then once the epoxy fully sets, the tape will completely peel off as long as you didn't let any leak out. It's a crude but effective way to hold and mold a blob to pot something. Putty epoxy can do the same with less fuss but makes an inferior, not always weather-tight bond.


I'd also put a couple layers of heatshrink tubing on the end of the multi-strand 14ga wire, entering into the epoxy, to act as a strain relief since this will become a non-serviceable unit, OR add a proper weatherproof sealing, latching connector to join them.

As far as the brittleness of solder, it shouldn't be a problem if you do a couple things. 1) Use leaded solder not lead-free. 2) Secure the wire to this (and those from it) so it is not vibrating around. This also applies to using crimp connectors instead. Even if they are the heatshink type, eventually the stress could damage a cheap chinese plastic fuse box instead.

Yes, pictures would help!

I am wondering if you really need this under-hood at all or would benefit more from less harsh conditions in the cabin, at least I was assuming you were putting it in the engine bay and this is why you had precious little room to work with? Behind the dash you should have plenty of room for this, including separate wires and terminals for each lug.

 

[BonzaiDuck]

OK. Yes -- I need to provide some pictures, but equally -- some diagrams from the Isuzu big, pink factory shop manual (I've got it on searchable PDF). Here's what I call the Prototype Zero for the work originally central to this thread:



The 14 gauge wire is continuous, bent into tight loops and soldered to the female shovel connectors. The loops of wire take up too much space. Further, I was too shy about soldering the blue wire to all the shovel connectors -- even more shy of soldering them to the male spades on the extension box. I made another prototype, which I didn't feel good about because the soldering was messy, and again-- the female shovels were not soldered to the male spades. So Prototype 2 is "The One", but I still have to snap a photo. Spades soldered to connectors, connectors soldered to what is now a 12 gauge wire (see subsequent paragraph). I had some of those little aluminum scissor heat-sinks for soldering, and the Taiwanese extension-box plastic was never in danger.

Went to the local electronics jobber store, and found some 1/4" female spade connectors that were much, much more worthy than the flimsy Chinese units I had. These have the neck of the connector rolled into a tube. I took two pairs of small needle-nose pliers and bent each spade connector at right angles precisely where the "spade" ends and the neck begins. Got them all "perfect". They are bent so that the barrel neck faces away from the spade when slipped onto the connector. All, perfect little right angles.

I think I may have violated your recommendation to use lead solder, in favor of silver-bearing solder which boasts a strength 5x a lead-solder joint. And -- it's easier to apply with a decently low flow point. In fact -- one formulation I found is actually a paste that looks like Arctic Silver 5 thermal paste. All that is required is to heat all the metal saturated in the stuff to 430F, and it turns silver.

So, for six spades on the extension, I had a dab of the stuff between the spade and the connector at the spade tip, and successively soldered the spades and connectors together. Then, I worked some of the silver paste into the wire where it would fit through the barrel-necks, and spooged a little inside the neck -- crimping the necks with needle-nose after that. And I ran the wire through all the barrels, applying a butane cordless soldering iron to each of the six spade assemblies. No lumps of solder, no black residue, and all rock solid.

Also, I switched out the 14 gauge wire for a 12 gauge blue wire, which matches the lead that goes into the back of the fuse box and connecting to the accessory load plate. This plate is supposed to span across the load side of fuses for (a) an audio and robot mirror draw wire, (b) the cigar lighter draw, and (c) an orange/blue-stripe wire to the anti-theft controller.

This is where I could post another thread on my "OEM Anti-Theft System Mystery". The shop manual, its diagrams -- all show that this orange/blue-stripe wire exists. But there is no orange/blue wire. There is no crimping hardware in the plastic fuse-box hole for it, and no connection to the accessary load. There's -- nothing there! And I had predicated part of this project on what was shown in the shop manual. Instead, there had been a "phony" or "fake" fuse delicately installed in the C13 fuse port. C11 was for audio/mirror. C12 was cigar lighter. They apparently did this to thwart any tampering with the anti-theft system -- or -- that's my intuitive conclusion about it. That means my anti-theft repair project goes back to my original diagnosis -- that the flashing LED light derives from a short at the tamper switch in the rear door, which occurred when the rear window was broken by the 32" tube-tv I was carrying in the cargo bay. [The only way to fix the anti-theft system -- if that diagnosis is the correct one -- is to dissemble the interior panels of the rear door. Decision is to forget about resurrecting the anti-theft system.]

In addition to finding a new mount for the mythical orange/blue anti-theft fuse, I've already added an MP3 player with USB ports (about 3 Amps). I'm going to add an interior LED lighting system -- another 3 amps, a Wi-Fi backup camera adds yet another 3 amps. The cigar lighter has a 20 amp fuse; the audio/mirror fuse is 10 amps. So the question remains: If the factory manual shows a 10 amp fuse for the anti-theft accessory wire that doesn't exist, and if I would probably never have all those devices turned on when I light up a Camel, am I potentially overloading the accessory load from the ignition switch? Or do I have more than enough.?

So now, I see that I don't need four "extension" fuses and spades. I only need three.

But -- suppose I'd just tried to wire all this extra wonderful s*** into the existing fuse box with either piggy-back fuse-holders or brass fuse-taps? Well -- I couldn't do it that way, because those piggy-back jobs overhang any fuse to the left of its socket. And I don't have enough accessory fuses to tap with the more primitive brass taps.

I may want to add one more fuse to the extension box, for the total of four draw wires I've prepared for it. I may want I good, rock-solid dual USB port installed on the dash, for which I might drill a 5/8" hole. They have little "doors" to keep the works dry. The MP3 player provides a spare USB port for charging, but I still need to experiment to see if it charges when the MP3 player is turned off.

And why do I need extra USB ports?

Well, the $80 Android tablet with Wi-Fi, GPS and Bluetooth arrived in todays mail. It could be a "phablet" for its size of 7"x4", but I can't add a SIM card. I'm not going to pay a subscription for a permanent cell-phone number attached to the Trooper.

If I'm going to either have Google Maps on the tablet screen or the backup camera view (but not both at the same time), that tablet will need a continuous charge coming from the accessory lead -- or from the ACC through the MP3 player's USB port. Either way, it will charge from the ACC contact at the ignition switch.

And I'll either need to shut off the tablet when I park the car, or arrange to make it "sleep".

I know . . . . that's a lot of "accessories-project stuff". The MP3 player was such a success, I just decided to try and bring the 95 Trooper from the 20th century into the 21st. Fun, Fun, Fun 'til my DMV takes my Trooper a-way-ay!

 

[mindless1]

You have overwhelmed me with too much text. Blame me, blame the internet, blame you, either way,

It is not a sustainable way to approach issues. Did not read, please condense.

 

[HarryLui]

I don't know what you paid for that fuse block, or how inconvenient it would be if there is a failure where it needs replaced (thinking things from China can take a month to ship), but I would prefer using a screw terminal buss bar, to individual wires to each spade terminal.

OEM Ford part to replaced the 80's Dodge fusible links, $20 from junkyard. OEM automotive grade stuff, ie heat proof, shock proof, dust proof, tested for the rated current, etc.

 

[mindless1]

^ That is a nice size box, what Ford models/years have one that small, and where is it located? I mean in the Fords at the junkyard.

Most Fords I've seen, just have the power distribution box under the hood then a secondary (much larger box than pictured, with a few dozen fuses) in the vicinity of the dash, with any smaller boxes under hood being only for relays.

Then again, back to what I wrote previously, if a single 14ga (or 12ga) wire can supply all the current needed, separate fuses aren't necessarily needed unless some subcircuit is safety critical and important to keep running even if something else on that circuit had a fault that blows a fuse. OEMs do group together multiple devices on the same circuit when there's a current margin to do so and no safety issue from loss of function... but then it is more serviceable if there's still a way to disconnect each separate device whether at the box or at the device. At the device isn't always practical.

 

[HarryLui]

Mine is off a 95 Taurus. They come in early 90's Taurus and Ranger.

Problem with spade terminal is that they can get loose in an automotive environment. I have this type of fusebox for my low current stuff. https://www.ebay.com/itm/Fuse-Box-B...183296?hash=item2abc15fa00:g:2aoAAOSwhexb8vLu

 

[BonzaiDuck]

You have overwhelmed me with too much text. Blame me, blame the internet, blame you, either way,

It is not a sustainable way to approach issues. Did not read, please condense.

OK. First, here's the finished fuse-box-extension product:


I used silver-bearing soldering paste. Found some female shovel clips that were much sturdier, and bent each one at right angles before putting them on the extension spades. The paste made it easy to solder the female clips to the spades, and I ran the 12 gauge wire through the barrel necks of the connectors that had been bent at right angles. All very solid, less of a profile and easier to find room for it.

The Trooper has two fuse/relay boxes -- one in the engine compartment, the other in the interior behind the driver-side kick panel near the door. Not a lot of room to work with this latter fuse-box. For the soldered assembly, I wrapped it in stretchable self-adhesive rubber hose-bandage, using some silicon adhesive sealant to finalize it so that it doesn't come unwrapped. The clips nearest the extension box needed to be painted with the silicon.

There were two reasons I needed this extension. The first reason is a story about how I disabled my OEM Anti-Theft System back in September 2018 -- how I "did things" and confused myself over my broken rear window and how it may have tripped an anti-tamper switch. I temporarily lost my memory as to what precisely happened with the Anti-Theft. But until the other day, I thought I needed to relocate a fuse for an ATS wire connecting to the anti-theft controller. That's another story, but there is no wire, and there was never an operational fuse.

The second reason or set of reasons:

1) -- My MP3 player, installed in the dash -- explained in an earlier thread -- draws at most 3 Amps @ 12V:



The facia I built for the MP3 player has been re-made with walnut so there are two USB ports instead of one (on the right side). I need a charging port for . . . .

2) -- A 7" Android tablet, to function as a voice-navigation system that communicates with the sound system through the MP3 via Bluetooth. I selected and purchased a bracket device to secure the tablet neatly in front of my center-dash air vents, but it only weighs 9 ounces, and it will be a solid mounting.

The tablet will also serve as the monitor for a . . . .

3) -- Wi-Fi rear backup camera.



All these items need (or I desire them) to have fused draw connections to the ACC/Accessory load wire from the ignition switch.

I'll probably want a rocker switch on the dashboard to control the camera, although that's not the herd's inclination -- they tie them into their reverse light circuit.

If anyone's curious, I can delve into the Anti-Theft-System Mystery in another post.

 

[mindless1]

They make this STUFF, called heat shrink tubing. It's a much tidier and easier way to insulate connector ends.

If the size tubing you need to go over the spade connectors will not shrink enough to make a tight fit against the wire too, then put a shorter length of smaller diameter tubing on the wire and shrink that in place so it effectively creates a larger diameter for the the larger tubing to shrink down to fit. This will also form a certain amount of strain relief, but I would still secure those wires so they aren't vibrating around, especially if the only thing holding the fuse box is going to be supertape.

 

[BonzaiDuck]

I'd love to use heat-shrink tubing for something like this, but I can't imagine they make the stuff for "T-joints" and you could fit it on there after soldering.

The silly-cone just looks messier. I don't think I should worry about "strain-relief" -- with the solder-joints I made running through the barrel-necks of the spade connectors after I crimped each one. The barrel-necks are soldered together end-to-end, they are each crimped after adding solder paste with the 12-gauge wire pushed through, and everything is soldered together rock-solid -- with additional solder beads between the spades on the extension box and the connectors.

On the matter of "Chinese knock-offs" for the fuse-box-extension. The hardware inside the plastic housing is just as sturdy as you find looking behind my OEM fusebox. I actually picked up the sort of fuse-box you mentioned -- using screws. Made in USA, it had LEDs to show either the fuses were working or they were blown. I think these LEDs required an extra + and - connector on two poles at either side of the box. Very sturdy. But too big to fit behind the driver-side kick-plate. It wasn't really wasted money, either. It was about $11 bucks.

The only thing I could still do -- would be soldering the draw-side spade connectors to the spades there. But they make a snug connection, and I may want to remove something or move it.

ANYWAY - and I took no offense -- you didn't seem interested in my OEM Anti-Theft System "mystery" story. The underlying facts of it which I discovered would suggest that there is plenty of additional amperage coming off the ACC/essory main wire. I think the fusible-link for it was 50A. But to the point -- the factory manual shows a 10A fuse off this ACC load plate for the Anti-Theft wire going to the Anti-Theft controller. This is the factory shop manual. The AT system is also "factory OEM". But there is no . . . freakin' wire . . . no hardware for it in the fusebox . . . and there was never a real, operative fuse. Just a fuse stuck in there to make it look as if the factory wiring diagram was accurate.

So . . . if the factory manual tells the reader that there's enough amperage from the ACC lead to supply something up to an additional 10A, but there was never really "anything there" -- would one think that there's 10A of wiggle room for attaching more accessories?

You can speculate. Whatever you may think -- I will hear it . . .

Meanwhile, I'm checking out this "cheap" Vankyo MatrixPad S7 Android tablet. I have very high hopes! It can provide digital FM radio in addition to the VOICE-NAV and Backup-Cam functions. But I can also store (redundantly) my entire MP3 collection on the 128GB SDXC card. Yet -- I need the existing MP3 FM transmitter I've already installed to pipe into the sound system. I could dispense with the latter, with a Bluetooth "cassette" in the OEM receiver's tape slot. But, redundancy is good.

I'm trying to choose "the right" camera at the moment. Any ideas -- please inform. But it must be "Wi-Fi for Android/iOS" and no monitor -- meant for phone or tablet as monitor. I've found maybe five good ones. Others one suspects to be crap.

Anyway -- even for my senior-citizen time -- I think I'm getting as much or more this way as opposed to a $1,000 Pioneer double-din "Android" receiver from Crutchfield -- which . . won't fit my single-din dashboard. The tablet was $75 bucks!

 

[mindless1]

^ I meant shrink tubing on the individual wires side. The other side, I already mentioned that I would've potted that in epoxy with a single solid core wire through the length via enlarged holes.

While there is going to be some wiggle room for additional gadgets on the factory wiring, it's better to only use that accessory as a trigger for a relay coil. That way, if some new device or especially the fuse box shorts out, you aren't blowing the factory fuse to the accessory circuit.

Don't assume your fuse box is as sturdy as OEM, especially if made of a different type of plastic and located under-hood. Temperatures, whether heat cycles over time, and/or combined with a cold winter day, can make some of them quite brittle. A fuse box seems like a simple thing but many years of refinement have gone into them for vehicle applications... and they don't use sticky tape mounting for reasons.

A wifi camera to a tablet for a backup cam seems like a fiddly solution requiring extra work every time you want to use it, or do you have some way to automatically launch the app and connect, every time the vehicle is put into reverse?

 

[BonzaiDuck]

Well, to answer your last question, I was going to find answers about number of finger-to-screen interactions and the trouble it would take.

Here are some things I know, for assumptions.

While a tablet doesn't "run" applications in the background, they can be held open in suspended state of their current screen displays. I've discovered with our wi-fi security cams in the house that they may need to have a wi-fi link "refresh" when brought back to the foreground, but just as often or more so -- they don't. I know the FM radio feature and app on the tablet don't need a refresh, doubt that there would be any lag in raising up the Google Maps or (whatever) application. The Bluetooth connection to the existing FM-transceiver/MP3/Bluetooth device becomes semi-permanent -- selectable from the cellphone or tablet, so pairing occurs as soon as you start the car -- or until I flip the rocker switch for it after starting the car.

Wi-Fi cameras have delays in re-establishing a network wi-fi connection to the phone or tablet, but some are better than others. If the cellphone or tablet is already configured for a household ethernet-plus-wireless network under a conventional ISP's cable-internet subscription, you'd deactivate that network and establish a connection to the wi-fi camera instead. How much trouble this would be in moving from house to car and back to house again, I'll find out. But the tablet was purchased with the idea in mind that it would become "part of the SUV".

With some uncertainty for lack of experience with it, I may be able to keep these apps -- Google Maps, FM Radio, backup-cam-monitor app, and MP3 player -- all suspended, but for one. I may be able to use "Google Assistant" and enable voice commands for each successive app: "Show Maps", "Play FM", "Show Rear Cam". Others may know more about that, but I'm guessing with some hopes for it.

Of this I'm pretty sure. I can link my phone with bluetooth to the MP3/transceiver broadcasting it in FM and outputing it to the OEM stereo system. The Transceiver's instructions tell me that music -- at least that being played from the phone -- will be interrupted for a hands-free phone call and then resume, so I'm hoping that Google Maps and MP3-play work in the same manner. If they work that way for the MP3/transceiver and phone pairing, they should work that way for the Android tablet, because I know I can actually run the Android's MP3 player when it's pushed to the background (still getting sound) while I have something else -- like my security-cam-feed -- running in the foreground. i just need to find out if Google Maps works that way -- so that the Android shuts off other sound sources when the voice-navigation announces "Turn left on Fifth Avenue to shoot someone . . . "

But howsoever that it is managed, the "Turn left" sound would compete equally with any music otherwise.

I've got at least a couple ways to do more than one thing, using different devices. I can even port Bluetooth to the car stereo via the OEM tape-deck. There are enough options, it is likely this can all be made to work in simple and reliable fashion.

. . . . Coming back to this . . . A lot of DIY implementations for a backup camera tie the camera -- a low-amperage device -- to the reverse "white" tail-light power-lead. A lot of customers for many of these products prefer to keep the camera on throughout vehicle operation, or allow it to be switched. Thus, the driver might have two views of the rear in either weatherly or clear conditions: the rear-view mirror -- which we avoid being obscured by certain backup cam-kit offerings that fit on your mirror; and the backup cam view on the monitor, cellphone or android tab. People with trucks and RVs prevail among these users, so whether or not the cam can endure continuous operation can be a deal-breaker. Sometimes indications from the customer reviews confirm that the product easily handles continuous operation.

The "reverse-only" solution may indeed lead to delays, but only trial attempts with a unit will tell. It has to pair with wi-fi each time the cam switches on, which could cause such a delay. Some users for some products complain about 30 seconds, and indications show that some cams are better than others at going through hoops of on/reverse and off/drive/neutral/park. I'd rather have the cam switched with a three-pin rocker on the dashboard.

As to the matter of amperage, I'll post a circuit diagram subsequent this one.

 

[BonzaiDuck]

Also -- my question, Mindless -- what sort of a relay would we be talking about? We're going to have a handful of independently fused devices that draw at most 3 Amps each requiring 5 or 7.5A fuses.

Anyway, here's the factory shop manual "Base" circuit diagram that explains the basic circuits between battery, through fusible-links, to ignition switch, fuse and fuse/relay(engine) boxes, and other separate items. If you can zoom it, notice the ACC line from the ignition switch which is fed by Fusible Link 2 on the battery side.
There are (supposedly) three accessory fuses -- C11, C12, and C13. C13 is shown for an orange/blue-stripe wire to the Anti Theft Controller, and it is a 10Amp fuse. When I impetuously yanked it out of the fuse box in 2018, it was a yellow fuse -- not a red one -- and yellow is 20 Amps (or higher than red 10A, anyway). There was no hardware and no wires feeding that fuse. It had been put in there "for show".

None of the accessory stuff is powered at the moment you start the car. They will either work with the keyswitch at "ACC", or when the car is actually running.

So one must wonder, if the circuit diagram of the FACTORY SHOP MANUAL says there's a 10A fuse powered there in addition to the cigar lighter and the Audio/robotic-side-mirrors, then the car-maker thinks there's enough behind fusible link #2 to power all of it: 10A Audio/Mirrors, 20A cigar lighter, and 10A Anti-Theft (for which there is no wire, no fuse and no fuse-box hardware).

All I'm asking for is to power two or three devices: the MP3-Player with USB charging at about 3A, the backup camera which has GOT to be lower than 3A, an interior LED lighting system spec'd at 3A. Maybe also another independent USB charging port -- so 2.4 A. Maybe two and at most three of those devices could be running all it once, but more likely it could be one or two. The Android runs off the MP3 player. The camera has its own power and fuse (I'll bet the amperage draw is really low, too.)

On top of that, how often really do I use the cigar lighter (fused at 20A)? And how much amperage -- really -- does that cigar lighter draw?

One thing I could do: limit the cigar-lighter draw to a plug-in two-port USB charger, use a vaping pen (for whatever fluid floats my boat), or if I must have a camel -- a BIC. I try and keep smoke out of the car, anyway.

 

[BonzaiDuck]

Ho-ho! Here's an aside, just discovered about the Vankyo MatrixPad S7.

To just "sleep" the tablet, requires a momentary push on the power button. I had it at full charge three hours ago and put it to sleep. It comes back with 100% charge when it wakes up -- no micro-USB cable connected all that time.

Three hours -- maybe it could go a whole day and still come back fully charged. Well, that's what "hibernate" does for a PC, and "sleep" just uses a trickle of power.

I'm going to put aside my foam-art-board construction project for a solid dashboard mount, and use the $20 OHLPRO kit I bought so I can go ahead and test this sucker out.

And another thing. If the MP3 "Google Play Music" app is running in background, it comes out of sleep giving option the play the current track or song without requiring you to swipe up on the tablet and unlock it with your PIN. I'd apparently paused play on Zeppelin's "Good Times Bad Times" . . . .

 

[BonzaiDuck]

Most of the solder I've seen has a resin core already in the solder.

Rosin and Acid Core Solders | The Harris Products Group

The Harris Products Group is a world leader in the design, development and manufacture of brazing, soldering and welding alloys and equipment, cutting and heating equipment, and gas distribution systems.

www.harrisproductsgroup.com

View attachment 26164

I missed your post. Yeah -- maybe I knew that. But I watched a YouTube video lesson on "how to solder wires together" for automotive projects, and the guy still used the paste dressing. I think that's why I like the silver-bearing stuff, and especially the paste: lower temperature flow point, and quickly spreads through all the metal surfaces. Rosin doesn't hurt, so . . .

I still feel ignorant after watching that video.

 

[mindless1]

The best solder for a DIY implementation is still the good old, 63/47 eutectic blend with lead (unless you want to get into exotic formulations that also have copper which "if" I'd had any lying around, might be preferable to solder to the fuse block contacts because of the lower melting point but the difference isn't all that important), because lead based solder is far less brittle, in addition to a lower melting point than silver, and a lot cheaper than silver.

Whether a good joint can be made with the rosin in the solder depends on several variables, including how old the solder is, how much flux is in it, how clean (oxidized) the component being soldered, the core metal of that component (for example a nickle plated steel is a far worse conductor than a brass connector), the temperature needed (how quickly the flux burns up), and more of less relevance.

The extra step that makes it always go easiest at low cost (often lower than solder w/flux in it alone because you don't have to keep adding more solder to get enough flux onto the joint, so you can use less solder) is apply a rosin based flux, meaning just a flux with no metal content (which will work too but these days those with lead solder balls in them are more rare and either way, it is a higher cost supply meant more for BGA work if for electronics at all, often the silver solder paste is more for mechanical uses but would still work).

Apply rosin flux, heat the joint while feeding solder in. On a large area like joining two wires, move the soldering iron around to help spread the initial amount of solder added, not just adding more and more solder or else you may end up with an excess glob by the time the far end is plated. Certainly this is not a rule and not the only way to get it done, but seems most reliabe, repeatable, and least expensive way to make a great joint.

 

[mindless1]

Also -- my question, Mindless -- what sort of a relay would we be talking about? We're going to have a handful of independently fused devices that draw at most 3 Amps each requiring 5 or 7.5A fuses.

As I've already mentioned, I don't think all these separate, small draw circuits each need their own fuse, but you can do that, and just put a standard 30A automotive relay between the fuse block and the battery positive terminal, then the relay coil is wired to ground and to the aux vehicle circuit so when aux is live, it energizes the relay.

None of the accessory stuff is powered at the moment you start the car. They will either work with the keyswitch at "ACC", or when the car is actually running.

Sure, as it should be, minimize unnecessary power draw to let the battery give the starter as many amps as possible.

So one must wonder, if the circuit diagram of the FACTORY SHOP MANUAL says there's a 10A fuse powered there in addition to the cigar lighter and the Audio/robotic-side-mirrors, then the car-maker thinks there's enough behind fusible link #2 to power all of it: 10A Audio/Mirrors, 20A cigar lighter, and 10A Anti-Theft (for which there is no wire, no fuse and no fuse-box hardware).

You can wire your vehicle any way you like to. I'm not suggesting it won't work, rather that I would keep all add-ons as a separate circuit on a relay, and I would only put one fuse on a tap from the battery, close to the battery, before going to the relay. This is also keeping in mind that what your vehicle electrical system was capable of when new, is not necessarily the same as with old wiring and contacts.

On top of that, how often really do I use the cigar lighter (fused at 20A)? And how much amperage -- really -- does that cigar lighter draw?

I would not play the numbers game here. If it's supposed to be capable of 20A then I would reserve 20A in the circuit it's on, while everything else that's on the same circuit that has even a remote chance of being operated concurrently, is also budgeted into the max current that subcircuit needs to be capable of. However if you want to measure things, a multimeter can do that, or in case of 20A if yours doesn't go that high, a clamp ammeter capable of DC could too.

One thing I could do: limit the cigar-lighter draw to a plug-in two-port USB charger, use a vaping pen (for whatever fluid floats my boat), or if I must have a camel -- a BIC. I try and keep smoke out of the car, anyway.

Wouldn't be a factor to me, I'd want a 20A lighter outlet to retain the ability to supply 20A, whether it's for the lighter, or a temporary AC/DC inverter, tire inflator, or a heated thermos, tattoo gun, waffle iron or cotton-candy-machine.

It's also better not to alter stock wiring any more than necessary so if anyone else ever has to work on it, there is minimal if any reverse engineering needed to figure out what's what, and what could have gone wrong.

There are lots of different ways to skin a cat. I'd still put the fuse box up under the dash before mounting it under the hood with sticky tape unless all the circuits were for external devices like light bars... except again, I don't think you need a fuse box, just a single fuse between battery and relay, then put the relay behind the dash where the accessory from ignition switch is anyway.

 

[BonzaiDuck]

As I've already mentioned, I don't think all these separate, small draw circuits each need their own fuse, but you can do that, and just put a standard 30A automotive relay between the fuse block and the battery positive terminal, then the relay coil is wired to ground and to the aux vehicle circuit so when aux is live, it energizes the relay.

Sure, as it should be, minimize unnecessary power draw to let the battery give the starter as many amps as possible.



You can wire your vehicle any way you like to. I'm not suggesting it won't work, rather that I would keep all add-ons as a separate circuit on a relay, and I would only put one fuse on a tap from the battery, close to the battery, before going to the relay. This is also keeping in mind that what your vehicle electrical system was capable of when new, is not necessarily the same as with old wiring and contacts.



I would not play the numbers game here. If it's supposed to be capable of 20A then I would reserve 20A in the circuit it's on, while everything else that's on the same circuit that has even a remote chance of being operated concurrently, is also budgeted into the max current that subcircuit needs to be capable of. However if you want to measure things, a multimeter can do that, or in case of 20A if yours doesn't go that high, a clamp ammeter capable of DC could too.



Wouldn't be a factor to me, I'd want a 20A lighter outlet to retain the ability to supply 20A, whether it's for the lighter, or a temporary AC/DC inverter, tire inflator, or a heated thermos, tattoo gun, waffle iron or cotton-candy-machine.

It's also better not to alter stock wiring any more than necessary so if anyone else ever has to work on it, there is minimal if any reverse engineering needed to figure out what's what, and what could have gone wrong.

There are lots of different ways to skin a cat. I'd still put the fuse box up under the dash before mounting it under the hood with sticky tape unless all the circuits were for external devices like light bars... except again, I don't think you need a fuse box, just a single fuse between battery and relay, then put the relay behind the dash where the accessory from ignition switch is anyway.

All your comments are helpful.

As for your last paragraph, the Trooper's fusebox deployment has a "relay and fuse" box under the hood, and the interior fuse box behind the driver's side kick plate. All the accessory items are wired to this interior box. The dashboard assembly for the SUV is . . . umm . . . "involved". To really get behind that dashboard for work or service, it has to be partially disassembled: remove the center-console panel around the gear-shift lever, then remove the "driver's side knee-bolster" vinyl panel. Tedious. The kickplate, which also covers the interior fusebox, is much more easily accessible, and the extension box, being tapped off the accessory load plate of the OEM fuse box would seem best installed nearest that fusebox.

As for the "sticky tape". The Flex-Seal tape is actually hard to remove once you use it for this thing or the other. Once you had separated the two items stuck together, it requires a putty knife and maybe a half-hour's work to remove the residue for the stuff.

There's just no opportunity to use sheet-metal screws or that sort of fastener for this little extension box. I was going to stick it on what LOOKED LIKE a metal box-shaped surface. After pulling off the OEM fusebox to look behind it, I discovered that this other little "metal" box was really a grey plastic housing for a rear-window defogger/relay-switch. It's secured to the lower hold-down bolt for the OEM fuse-box with a metal bracket. If I have a 1/2"-wide, 4"-long metal strap with holes drilled in it, I can bolt down the extension fuse box to the same hold-down bolt so the extension just sits on top of the defogger relay. Neither of those items are likely to need removal, or otherwise under improbable circumstances, and the extension box has its own clear-plastic cap to access the fuses. This makes the fuses accessible in the same way that the OEM fuse-box fuses can be accessed, except that the kickplate has a pop-off door for those.

You'd asked about my Rube-Goldberg approach to a dashboard monitor using an Android tablet. I took the car out for an experimental trial yesterday once I was able to mount the tablet in a way equivalent to my "final mounting solution."

I was impressed. I can open my record-album collection in Google Play and then minimize it to the background -- the music continues to play, so I could set up a play list before leaving my garage or a parking place, and run it before taking the car out of "Park". Same with the FM digital radio running on the Android. The Google Maps program can also be raised, an itinerary defined waiting to press the "Go" button, and it -- too -- can be minimized to background and continues to run and function. This means that the only thing I need displayed on the monitor while driving is the backup camera view.

When Google Maps announces that I need to "turn left on watcha-ma-call-it street in the next 100 feet", the Android suppresses the music and then resumes it after the Google voice has finished.

That leaves the choice of how the Android communicates with the car's OEM digital receiver (1995 model). I have the choice of pairing it by Bluetooth to the MP3 player I'd already installed (described in another lengthy thread), or -- I can use an "Aluratek" Bluetooth "cassette" device with the OEM receiver switched to "TAPE".

I was impressed with the fidelity and volume I can get out of the Aluratek as opposed to the Bluetooth connection to the MP3 device, which then hands off the audio to the MP3's FM transmitter and the OEM receiver.

So -- learning new and wonderful things -- and I haven't lost optimism for the Android -- not yet. I just need to get it mounted so it's not sitting above the dashboard.

It's nice to have a "backup cam" monitor or a Google Maps display on "the monitor". But it's the driver's responsibility to avoid fiddling with that stuff while actually driving -- the same imperatives about vehicle cell-phone use apply equally. Yet -- all the features needed to avoid any "fiddling" are there -- and it proves out.

In fact, at one point, trying to test out creating a Google Maps itinerary, I was able to use Google's voice-recognition feature to define "Destination" as "Home" so that it filled in my home address. I suspect I'm going to learn some other "wonderful new things".

 

[BonzaiDuck]

Well, I think it's a done deal on the fuse-box extension.

On the matter of providing a separate relay/switch for it, I think I'm sticking with the current plan. All the items I want to connect to the extension are "accessory" items. I want them running off the accessary fuse-box load plate, and the fusible Link #2 which feeds it.

I found a 1/2"x4" metal strap with holes -- a Home Depot right-angle galvanized bracket, pounded flat on my 60 lb anvil. Used a rat-tail file to widen the holes. It bolts to the lower hold down bolt of the OEM fuse-box, hangs down just below that fuse-box, and is secured to the metal strap with a round-head screw and matching nut -- so we got that solved.

Soldering seems just so, so tedious. I don't approach it with eagerness; but I come away satisfied if I can do a half-assed job that won't be trouble down the line.

I had a 140W "ALLIED" soldering gun, purchased back in 1992. The plastic housing has been broken almost the whole time, but it continued to work. That was 28 years ago, and I remember I purchased it for about $30.

So I went online and found a new soldering gun for $80 that provides about 200+ Watts when you pull the trigger halfway, and 140W when you pull the trigger as far as it can go. The 200+ Watt setting really makes things much easier. At my age, my hands shake, my eyes are shot, my glasses slip down my nose and out of focus while sweat is running down my forehead. Anybody can understand that assessment from a septuagenarian.

Had to consult my "Orders" link at Amazon. The soldering iron is an "ATD" manufacture and model #3740, with 230W and 150W depending on the trigger setting. And it has a little LED light that illuminates the soldering work, coming on when you pull the trigger . . . Neato, but I still want more light! I'm freakin' old!