• Guest, The rules for the P & N subforum have been updated to prohibit "ad hominem" or personal attacks against other posters. See the full details in the post "Politics and News Rules & Guidelines."
  • Community Question: What makes a good motherboard?

Update Homeowner Guns down girl chasing her in back alley she said she was pregnant

Page 7 - Seeking answers? Join the AnandTech community: where nearly half-a-million members share solutions and discuss the latest tech.

IndyColtsFan

Lifer
Sep 22, 2007
33,491
553
126
I don't feel sorry for either of these losers (and make no mistake, they are the scum of the earth), but with that being said, I do have a hard time with the old man going out into the alley and finishing her off if that is indeed what happened.

It looks like he may have hit her once in the house and then went into the alley to finish her off. I do think a manslaughter charge is definitely warranted. I don't understand why he couldn't have called the cops and had them come and pick her up.

I have no problem with them charging the male robber with murder either.
 

TerryMathews

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
11,474
2
0
I don't feel sorry for either of these losers (and make no mistake, they are the scum of the earth), but with that being said, I do have a hard time with the old man going out into the alley and finishing her off if that is indeed what happened.

It looks like he may have hit her once in the house and then went into the alley to finish her off. I do think a manslaughter charge is definitely warranted. I don't understand why he couldn't have called the cops and had them come and pick her up.

I have no problem with them charging the male robber with murder either.
This sums up my feelings perfectly.

And, since someone may bring it up: I have no issue with the disparity of the charges: the accomplice premeditated the crime. The victim/defendant in question did not.
 

justin4pack

Senior member
Jan 21, 2012
521
6
81
I think that the killing shot really depends on what type of person you are. I myself would have stopped after the wounding shot and called the police. This guy was in te army if i read it right,maby he felt he was still in danger being older.
 

Oldgamer

Diamond Member
Jan 15, 2013
3,280
1
0
The coroner did an autopsy the girl was not pregnant. DA leaning toward not filing charges against homeowner. Just an update
 

Brovane

Diamond Member
Dec 18, 2001
3,960
33
91
The coroner did an autopsy the girl was not pregnant. DA leaning toward not filing charges against homeowner. Just an update
I was kind of figuring no charges would probably be filed. DA's are still politicians and it would look bad to charge a 80 year old with defending himself even though once he pursued the criminals it went beyond just defending. I figured even if filled for some type of manslaughter the DA will not want to take this to trial and will offer a really nice plea-bargain that probably doesn't include any jail time and just probation.
 

TheSiege

Diamond Member
Jun 5, 2004
3,919
14
81
This is exactly the idiocy I was talking about thank you for providing us a reference example to discuss.

Please elaborate on the planning that the defendant committed to satisfy the premeditation.
5 seconds is enough time to premeditate something. He choose to go out into the alley and shoot a defenseless person. He was no longer defending himself and decided to elect himself judge, jury, and executioner. Murder. Take for example what happened in American History X. I know its just a movie, but its a very similar situation with the same outcome.
 

Zstream

Diamond Member
Oct 24, 2005
3,397
277
136
5 seconds is enough time to premeditate something. He choose to go out into the alley and shoot a defenseless person. He was no longer defending himself and decided to elect himself judge, jury, and executioner. Murder. Take for example what happened in American History X. I know its just a movie, but its a very similar situation with the same outcome.
Now you have a timer? Wow! The armchair debaters have never been burglarized, especially multiple times. You will change your tune shortly after.
 

TheSiege

Diamond Member
Jun 5, 2004
3,919
14
81
I was using 5 seconds as an example of how little time it takes to premeditate something. I can tell you with all certainty, I would not shoot at a fleeing person, if for no other reason, I might miss. The danger was gone, his life was safe, he choose to murder, he was no longer defending. FYI I have been robbed at gunpoint, and you know what, I gave him my wallet. It cost me about 5 hours and $100.
 
Oct 30, 2004
11,449
20
81
If you don't want to get shot, don't break into other people's homes. I am having great difficulty feeling any sympathy for this woman.
 

TerryMathews

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
11,474
2
0
5 seconds is enough time to premeditate something. He choose to go out into the alley and shoot a defenseless person. He was no longer defending himself and decided to elect himself judge, jury, and executioner. Murder. Take for example what happened in American History X. I know its just a movie, but its a very similar situation with the same outcome.
Any decent defense attorney would be able to successfully argue that this was one continuous situation and as such there was no premeditation.

If she was retreating, him pursuing to kill her isn't right. It also isn't premeditation. " think out or plan (an action, especially a crime) beforehand."

Doesn't satisfy "beforehand".
 

MongGrel

Lifer
Dec 3, 2013
38,751
3,064
121
Pretty much this, premeditation would pretty much involved his planning on allowing them to beat the living crap out of him and allowing him to live, before following later.

I'm getting older myself, you have any idea what being 80 and getting the shit kicked out of you by a couple of punks probably feels like.

I'm surprised he could even do what he did.

I think the guy still deserves a damned medal.
 
Last edited:

boomerang

Lifer
Jun 19, 2000
18,897
638
126
In Michigan, if you fire at a fleeing intruder and kill them, the charge is going to be second degree murder. You cannot shoot if there is no imminent threat and shooting her twice in the back would pretty much seal the deal. Now, if she had been running away while firing a weapon at him, that would be a whole new ball game.

If he's not charged he will be one lucky man but he'll lose everything defending himself in the civil suit.
 

Ns1

No Lifer
Jun 17, 2001
55,399
1,510
126
oh shit AP has way more details.

http://www.usnews.com/news/us/articles/2015/01/26/prosecutors-wont-charge-man-in-killing-of-burglar

By BRIAN MELLEY, Associated Press

LOS ANGELES (AP) — An 80-year-old Long Beach man was justified in killing a burglar who falsely claimed she was pregnant and asked him not to shoot, the Los Angeles County district attorney's office said in declining to charge him.

Thomas Greer shot Andrea Miller twice as she tried to flee from his home July 22 after she and an accomplice assaulted and robbed him, a prosecutor said in a Dec. 5 report that was disclosed Monday. Greer told reporters that Miller said she was pregnant and asked him not to open fire.

"Thomas Greer is presumed to have held a reasonable fear of imminent peril of death or great bodily injury," according to the report signed by Deputy District Attorney Janet Moore. "Greer exercised his legal and legitimate right of self-defense when he shot and killed Andrea Miller."

Californians can use deadly force to protect themselves inside their homes if they feel they are in imminent danger.

Greer had been burglarized at least twice in the past when he returned home from work that night and found Miller and Gus Adams trying to crack open a safe, the report said. The two lied and said they were police officers and then started roughing him up, scraping and bruising him and breaking his collarbone, according to the report.

They eventually left him alone and returned to the safe, the report said.

Greer couldn't leave his house because his front gate was padlocked and a woman with a small child was demanding that he let her in, the report said. He correctly assumed the woman, who turned out to be Adams' mother, was an accomplice, the report said.

He got a small-caliber handgun from his bedroom and returned to the office area, where the two had managed to pry open the safe and get $5,000. They beat him again until they saw he was armed and then fled, the report said.

Greer squeezed off three shots, striking Miller, 28, in the left side of the chest and in the right knee. She fell, got up and then fell in the alley outside, the report said.

Adams ran to a car where his mother, Ruby Adams, was waiting and they drove away, the report said.

Gus Adams, 26, has pleaded not guilty to murder, burglary and robbery charges. He's charged with murder under the theory that he committed a felony that led to Miller's death.

Ruby Adams, 50, has pleaded not guilty to burglary and robbery charges.

The two are due in Long Beach Superior Court on Feb. 3.

Greer does not have a listed phone number and could not be reached for comment by The Associated Press.
 

RampantAndroid

Diamond Member
Jun 27, 2004
6,591
3
81
Prosecutors said bullets struck Miller once in the chest and once in her right knee. She fell at the back of truck parked in the garage and then ran into the alley where she fell again.

Greer dragged her back into the garage, hoping Adams would come back to help her, prosecutors said.
That's from another article. It would seem that he shot as they fled (but did not shoot in the alley), but then again they attacked him two times. He could have reasonably believed they were retreating but were still likely to come back and attack again.
 

Blue_Max

Diamond Member
Jul 7, 2011
4,227
152
106
2 counts, one for the baby.
I wonder if she was actually pregnant or just pulling the BS sympathy card of, "you can't hurt me, I'm a girl!"

[Edit:] Just read the last bit on it... yep. That part where the guy's mom with a baby pounded on the door demanding to be let in... holy sh!t...

Don't do drugs, kids.
 
Last edited:

rpsgc

Senior member
Sep 22, 2004
207
0
86
That's from another article. It would seem that he shot as they fled (but did not shoot in the alley), but then again they attacked him two times. He could have reasonably believed they were retreating but were still likely to come back and attack again.
So he didn't shoot her in 'cold blood' in the alley after all :hmm:


Where are all the people calling him a murderer and demanding his perpetual incarceration?

Come back and eat some crow.


Maybe next time you won't be so quick to side with the low life criminals over a citizen defending himself and his property.
 

Nograts

Platinum Member
Dec 1, 2014
2,534
3
0
Wish I could shake this man's hand. Putting criminals where they belong. In a grave :)
 

ASK THE COMMUNITY