Update Homeowner Guns down girl chasing her in back alley she said she was pregnant

[feralkid]

I am not going to feel sorry for people that beak into houses of old people. They are scum and all deserve to die.

Bra-a-a-a-a-K! Deserve to die! Deserve to die!

 

[TerryMathews]

"The man escaped, but the woman fell after being struck by Greer's gunfire in an alley behind the house.

"She says, 'Don't shoot me, I'm pregnant! I'm going to have a baby!' And I shot her anyway," Greer said."

So chasing someone outside and finishing them off is perfectly fine in your book. I don't remember if you were getting all excited about the guy in Minnesota who executed those teens in his house, but you seem like the type who would.

Never said that. It is not fine. That said, it is also not premeditated.

 

[SOFTengCOMPelec]

Picture of shot dead girl.

Full original source article, here.

 

[RampantAndroid]

Why do you say 2nd and not 1st?

Because 1st requires pre-meditation?

 

[werepossum]

Picture of shot dead girl.

Full original source article, here.

If there's one bright spot here it's that at least it's not a rich old white guy killing a poor young black woman, so at least we'll escape that side of it.

 

[SOFTengCOMPelec]

If there's one bright spot here it's that at least it's not a rich old white guy killing a poor young black woman, so at least we'll escape that side of it.

Yes, a lot of that controversy is eliminated.

I feel sorry for the older man, because they were repeatedly breaking in to his home and stealing stuff, a total of at least three times (I think).
They had somewhat badly attacked him (physically), and they were taking thousands of dollars from his safe.

From his video interview, it sounds like he was trying to defend himself (from the repeated break-ins, he was getting).

We had a similar case in the UK, a while back (as shotguns are potentially available to the general public, if licensed), and the guy eventually got off (free), after spending some time in prison for it.
He shot dead one of the burglars, as they were fleeing, from breaking into his isolated home.

He had also suffered many previous burglaries.

EDIT: On the one hand it's very sad that this relatively young girl has been shot dead, on the other hand, she was making very poor/risky life decisions, which sooner or later, could have resulted in tragedy anyway.

 

[drebo]

I hope he spends the rest of his short life in prison.



There aren't extenuating circumstances that let you shoot people as they flee from you.

I will never, EVER, empathize with a criminal.

The extenuating circumstances are that the guy is 80 and fearing for his life. Even if she's running away, he's still injured and who's to say she doesn't go bring back 5 of her friends to beat the guy to death?

Seriously, all you people who are saying he's a murderer are the problem with America. When criminals can get a pass just because they regret their decision after they're met with force, what message does it say? Show remorse and you're golden? Fuck no.

Don't want to get shot? Don't be a criminal. She picked the wrong old guy to fuck with. That's on her. He should be given a medal.

 

[Bird222]

Because 1st requires pre-meditation?

Yes, I know but I am wondering from what the story is why he didn't consider it pre-meditation?

 

[MetalMat]

A victim taking justice into its own hands is illegal. Even in the situations you listed, there is a very good reason to not let the victim take justice into its hands.

We do have a small loophole for situations though, and its crime of passion. The law understands that in some moments, a person can lose control because they were pushed to a limit and any action there after is not pushed as harshly. So in reality, those above crimes already carry the risk of harm and or death.

This was in no way a crime of passion or Manslaughter. The old guy knew what he was doing and shot her in the back twice while she was fleeing. He is going to get charged with murder.

 

[SOFTengCOMPelec]

The Police have made an announcement about this story (already linked to in my previous post, towards the end of the video story).

They are saying that at least one of the shots was INSIDE the (his) house, which if I understand American law, is fine (self defence).

They are also saying the second shot (in the nearby/joining alley) may also be fine (legally), as long as he was "in fear of his life", which given that he had just been viscously attacked in his own home, may well be the case.

Apparently this was the forth time they (his wife was home one of the times, but they are separated, now) had been burgled and/or attacked, and an 80+ year old person, can legitimately feel much more vulnerable, than a person in their twenties.

Anyway, that is my interpretation, of the video report.

EDIT: Whatever the outcome of this, i.e. he is let off, or charged with murder, or whatever, it seems to be a sad case, all round, especially for the unborn baby.

 

[MongGrel]

This is probably murder if it happened as described.

Yep.

But didn't read down, was more as usual.

Depending on the bank account, the police will adjust the story.

http://www.freep.com/article/20140724/NEWS07/307240102/Robert-Durst-CVS-urinating-candy-case

 

[dmcowen674]

Was a good shoot.

Shame on those that would prosecute this old man victim.

Whether criminal was pregnant or not has nothing to do with it, still a criminal and a dead one as should be.

Sucks that he couldn't kill the guy as well.

 

[cuafpr]

Id never find him guilty....

 

[realibrad]

This was in no way a crime of passion or Manslaughter. The old guy knew what he was doing and shot her in the back twice while she was fleeing. He is going to get charged with murder.

My feeling is that I agree from what I know about this. It sure seems like the guy knew she was not a threat and wanted to kill her as a punishment, and to me thats 1st murder.

My point though was that people should not take justice into their own hands, and expect it to be accepted. We do have crimes of passion, but thats for a jury to judge. We don't want a world where people go after others because they felt wronged. Its a destabilizing way of doing things. The rule of law is imperfect, but better than any non legal alternative.

 

[alzan]

Why do you say 2nd and not 1st?

Given the facts of the case as reported, it would be the easier of the two to prove.

 

[Oldgamer]

This article states that the homeowner shot the girl as she was fleeing in the back alley:

Quote:

"The lady didn't run as fast as the man, so I shot her in the back twice," Greer told the TV station. "She's dead ... but he got away."

McDonnell would not say whether Miller was shot in the back as Greer said. He also declined to say how many shots were fired and whether either of the suspects was hit inside the house before fleeing.

Source Link

It appears also that the homeowner has now clammed up and prosecutors are still deciding as to what if any to charge him.

 

[highland145]

This article states that the homeowner shot the girl as she was fleeing in the back alley:

Quote:

"The lady didn't run as fast as the man, so I shot her in the back twice," Greer told the TV station. "She's dead ... but he got away."

McDonnell would not say whether Miller was shot in the back as Greer said. He also declined to say how many shots were fired and whether either of the suspects was hit inside the house before fleeing.

Source Link

It appears also that the homeowner has now clammed up and prosecutors are still deciding as to what if any to charge him.

Too late for that.

 

[Exophase]

So Greer might not even be arrested, but Adams is getting charged with felony murder.. totally crazy. He should be charged with burglary, battery, and elder abuse but murder? Come on.

 

[Oldgamer]

So Greer might not even be arrested, but Adams is getting charged with felony murder.. totally crazy. He should be charged with burglary, battery, and elder abuse but murder? Come on.

I find that very strange also. The guy didn't commit murder, only assault and burglary, not sure how they can pin murder on him this way.

 

[SOFTengCOMPelec]

I find that very strange also. The guy didn't commit murder, only assault and burglary, not sure how they can pin murder on him this way.

I've heard a lot about this (despite NOT living in the US).

Yes, they can be charged with murder.

There are many resources explaining about it (I would guess), including many crime (US) documentaries, which I have seen.

But really, you should be telling ME about this, as I am in the UK!

 

[Oldgamer]

I've heard a lot about this (despite NOT living in the US).

Yes, they can be charged with murder.

There are many resources explaining about it (I would guess), including many crime (US) documentaries, which I have seen.

But really, you should be telling ME about this, as I am in the UK!

Well, I am not an attorney so have no clue. I am mind boggled actually, as the burglar (guy) wasn't the one doing the shooting. But alas America and its weird twisted laws, and twisted logic.

 

[SOFTengCOMPelec]

Well, I am not an attorney so have no clue. I am mind boggled actually, as the burglar (guy) wasn't the one doing the shooting. But alas America and its weird twisted laws, and twisted logic.

Example

I think it is related to this

EDIT:

I guess this quote (from the 1st link), is exactly the kind of weird law(s) you were talking about.

In Illinois, a person who commits a felony can be charged with murder if someone dies during the course of the crime.

 

[Exophase]

I've heard a lot about this (despite NOT living in the US).

Yes, they can be charged with murder.

There are many resources explaining about it (I would guess), including many crime (US) documentaries, which I have seen.

But really, you should be telling ME about this, as I am in the UK!

I'm sure we (US citizens) generally understand that there are felony murder laws but the scope can be very vague - they're not supposed to apply if the connection is too indirect, but it's not clear how to make that distinction.

I think the spirit of the law is that felons are accountable for unintentional/accidental deaths that happen directly from the recklessness/disregard of the perpetrator in act of the crime. Not because they inspired the victim to gun one of them down.

Here's an interesting CA case: http://law.justia.com/cases/california/supreme-court/2013/s190713.html Burglars were fleeing and stolen goods fell out of their car resulting in vehicular homicide. They were charged with felony murder but it was overturned in court because the death occurred after the crime.

 

[SOFTengCOMPelec]

I'm sure we (US citizens) generally understand that there are felony murder laws but the scope can be very vague - they're not supposed to apply if the connection is too indirect, but it's not clear how to make that distinction.

I think the spirit of the law is that felons are accountable for unintentional/accidental deaths that happen directly from the recklessness/disregard of the perpetrator in act of the crime. Not because they inspired the victim to gun one of them down.

Here's an interesting CA case: http://law.justia.com/cases/california/supreme-court/2013/s190713.html Burglars were fleeing and stolen goods fell out of their car resulting in vehicular homicide. They were charged with felony murder but it was overturned in court because the death occurred after the crime.

Don't worry, the UK law can also become mindbogglingly complicated.

For example a person can (in real terms) commit NO crime, and there are no victims/injured parties, whatsoever.
Yet they can be charged with serious offences, and locked up for very long periods of time.

A good example is when a would be terrorist, is found with "nasty" plans to build a big bomb, membership(s) of hate organisations and maybe one or two real life examples of their serious intentions. E.g. They have bought ten boxes of garden fertilizer (potentially used in bomb making) and yet live in a one bedroom flat/apartment which has NO garden.

 

[Mandres]

Bill ... *cough-gasp* ... It's your baby.