Update Homeowner Guns down girl chasing her in back alley she said she was pregnant

[waggy]

A good lawyer would have this guy walking away from any charges IMHO without much effort.

not sure on that. he chased her down after she was trying to flee. I don't think many jury's are going to be ok with that.

from what we know so far i go with murder.

 

[senseamp]

"I shot her so that's going to leave a message on his mind for the rest of his life," Greer said.

Wrong answer.

 

[piasabird]

Well I guess it depends how you look at this case. At any time the woman could pull out a switch blade, a Knife or some other hidden weapon when the guy lets down his guard. It is also his word against hers. First rule of police work is never trust anyone. If the woman and her boyfriend were involved in criminal activity, there is no reason to believe her. If she is dead this must be from eye witnesses or the man with the gun.

These kinds of incidents can be really tough for the gun owner. I bet the police will automatically charge him with murder. Every state has different laws. I could see a defense that looks like the following. The woman and her boyfriend broke into the home owners house and then he becomes enraged to the point he is temporarily out of it or mentally insane and chases her and kills her in the heat of the moment. He pleads temporary insanity and gets off with some time in a mental institution.

I refuse to give a pregnant criminal special treatment. She took her pregnant body to the scene of the crime and did something illegal, which means she endangered her baby of her own free will.

 

[D-Man]

The police are not your friends. The first word out of one's mouth should be lawyer.

BUT if he shot a defenseless person that is no longer a threat to his safety I would call it murder.

 

[piasabird]

I don't think a jury is going to be that hard on a 80 year old man when they both attacked him in his own house. I doubt they can convince a jury of 12 people to all say he was guilty of murder.

In some locations if you attack a senior citizen, you are going to jail anyway.

 

[irishScott]

Be surprised if he wasn't charged with murder. Chasing somebody into an alley and then shooting them while clearly not a threat anymore isn't self defense anymore.

This.

 

[Oldgamer]

Why is it that all of you feel every crime is equal to an automatic death sentence? Seriously we might as well enact Muslim law then. Start killing people for every offense. I mean most of you here think its ok to be Judge, jury and executioner and exact vigilante justice. This old guy, albeit yes was a victim of a crime, had already shot the girl once, she was no longer a threat and fled his home. All he had to do was call the police, but instead exacted his own vigilante justice and executed her. I will not be surprised to learn later that they arrest this old dude. Because a lot of folks are piping up in the media about this being a crime.

 

[Exophase]

I don't think a jury is going to be that hard on a 80 year old man when they both attacked him in his own house. I doubt they can convince a jury of 12 people to all say he was guilty of murder.

So what do you think the jury will be convinced happened, self-defense? I'm sure the prosecution will do their best to make sure the jury understands that they're determining whether or not he acted outside of the limited parameters one is legally allowed to kill another person, not whether or not revenge killings should be legal.

This is assuming that the guy doesn't just plead guilty to begin with, possibly with a plea bargain.

In some locations if you attack a senior citizen, you are going to jail anyway.

It doesn't matter. Being the victim of a crime doesn't make you immune to criminal punishment.

 

[brycejones]

Why is it that all of you feel every crime is equal to an automatic death sentence? Seriously we might as well enact Muslim law then. Start killing people for every offense. I mean most of you here think its ok to be Judge, jury and executioner and exact vigilante justice. This old guy, albeit yes was a victim of a crime, had already shot the girl once, she was no longer a threat and fled his home. All he had to do was call the police, but instead exacted his own vigilante justice and executed her. I will not be surprised to learn later that they arrest this old dude. Because a lot of folks are piping up in the media about this being a crime.

Even under more extreme forms of Sharia law not every crime carries a death sentence. Instead of justice there are to many people who want revenge and those are NOT the same things.

Based on the facts presented so far the old guy went to far and should be charged with murder. It was past the point of self defense.

 

[Exophase]

I mean most of you here think its ok to be Judge, jury and executioner and exact vigilante justice.

The responses in this thread supporting this man's actions are not even half as many as those calling him a murderer...

 

[highland145]

Why is it that all of you feel every crime is equal to an automatic death sentence? Seriously we might as well enact Muslim law then. Start killing people for every offense. I mean most of you here think its ok to be Judge, jury and executioner and exact vigilante justice. This old guy, albeit yes was a victim of a crime, had already shot the girl once, she was no longer a threat and fled his home. All he had to do was call the police, but instead exacted his own vigilante justice and executed her. I will not be surprised to learn later that they arrest this old dude. Because a lot of folks are piping up in the media about this being a crime.

I counted 12 to 3 saying he committed murder.

 

[TerryMathews]

Why is it that all of you feel every crime is equal to an automatic death sentence? Seriously we might as well enact Muslim law then. Start killing people for every offense. I mean most of you here think its ok to be Judge, jury and executioner and exact vigilante justice. This old guy, albeit yes was a victim of a crime, had already shot the girl once, she was no longer a threat and fled his home. All he had to do was call the police, but instead exacted his own vigilante justice and executed her. I will not be surprised to learn later that they arrest this old dude. Because a lot of folks are piping up in the media about this being a crime.

Self-defense has nothing to do with just punishment, you tool.

 

[CitizenKain]

I hope he spends the rest of his short life in prison.

Nope, extenuating circumstances exhonerate the guy in this case. He's 100% in the right and I hope they don't charge him.

There aren't extenuating circumstances that let you shoot people as they flee from you.

 

[Exophase]

I hope he spends the rest of his short life in prison.

I wonder if his old age had some influence on his willingness to do what he did. There's a good chance he would have gotten jail time for the first shot, possibly even a few years. At that point it might not have made any real difference to him if he fired again or not...

 

[piasabird]

Maybe some thugs will attack and kill your grandfather tomorrow.

A lot of criminals do break-ins at locations where older people live. They purposely target senior citizens and often kill them. I am not going to feel sorry for people that beak into houses of old people. They are scum and all deserve to die.

 

[Exophase]

Maybe some thugs will attack and kill your grandfather tomorrow.

I don't know who you're talking to here or even what point you're trying to make. If this old man were my grandfather there's still no way I'd be supporting his behavior.

 

[DrPizza]

How much time was between the 1st and 2nd shot? I'll reserve judgment until that tidbit is known. And, gunshots are loud enough that there should be earwitnesses.

Story is very poorly written, so I won't base judgment upon those "facts." Almost seems as if the story was written in a way to intentionally make it appear as bad as possible. If it's true, in that timeline - she had left, was downed in an alley, and begged for her life between the 1st and 2nd shot (as per the OPs commentary and the order of facts in the article), then very clearly murder. As much as I sympathize with him, I'd send him straight to prison.


edit: after reading other articles, it seems she said she was pregnant before either shot.

edit edit: she stumbled in the alley before pleading for her life, then was shot twice in the back. Guy had been robbed before, guy had just been severely assaulted (maybe for a 26 year old guy, being tackled isn't severely, but for an 80 year old man, absolutely); so I'd be happy if he was charged with manslaughter, not premeditated murder.

 

[OutHouse]

first shot understandable self defense, second shot pre-meditated murder.

the guy was just attacked and robbed and was not thinking rationally, pre-meditation not found.

 

[OutHouse]

I hope he spends the rest of his short life in prison.



There aren't extenuating circumstances that let you shoot people as they flee from you.

you know this how?

 

[Oldgamer]

How much time was between the 1st and 2nd shot? I'll reserve judgment until that tidbit is known. And, gunshots are loud enough that there should be earwitnesses.

Story is very poorly written, so I won't base judgment upon those "facts." Almost seems as if the story was written in a way to intentionally make it appear as bad as possible. If it's true, in that timeline - she had left, was downed in an alley, and begged for her life between the 1st and 2nd shot (as per the OPs commentary and the order of facts in the article), then very clearly murder. As much as I sympathize with him, I'd send him straight to prison.


edit: after reading other articles, it seems she said she was pregnant before either shot.

edit edit: she stumbled in the alley before pleading for her life, then was shot twice in the back. Guy had been robbed before, guy had just been severely assaulted (maybe for a 26 year old guy, being tackled isn't severely, but for an 80 year old man, absolutely); so I'd be happy if he was charged with manslaughter, not premeditated murder.

Watch this news video here from the Los Angelos Times. Even the news media says the police believe that he may not have shot her in self defense according to the news report and shot her when she was fleeing and down.

http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-suspect-killed-long-beach-robbery-20140723-story.html

 

[blankslate]

[Spidey] Good shoot [/Spidey]

 

[Londo_Jowo]

The fact he hasn't been arrested makes me wonder what the hell is going on. Why would the police make this statement?

The man "possibly interrupted a crime in progress" and used a firearm to shoot and kill the suspect, Long Beach Deputy Police Chief David Hendricks told reporters at a news conference.

 

[Gooberlx2]

not sure on that. he chased her down after she was trying to flee. I don't think many jury's are going to be ok with that.

from what we know so far i go with murder.

Yep.

I remember a news story a couple/few years ago (probably posted here) about some store owner/clerk running out and gunning down a fleeing would-be robber. IIRC, guy was charged and convicted of murder.

edit: I also seem to remember the general consensus being that the owner/clerk was clearly in the wrong. Interesting the difference in this thread.

 

[werepossum]

I'd have a very difficult time convicting him of anything. Manslaughter, maybe. Here we have two young people who broke into an old man's home, severely injured him, and then expect the protection of the law when the balance of power suddenly turns against them. Screw 'em both. Hope they charge her accomplice with Murder One if and when they catch him. Had they surrendered, I'd have more sympathy. Maybe.

Make that 12-4, Robert.

 

[BoberFett]

Why is it that all of you feel every crime is equal to an automatic death sentence? Seriously we might as well enact Muslim law then. Start killing people for every offense. I mean most of you here think its ok to be Judge, jury and executioner and exact vigilante justice. This old guy, albeit yes was a victim of a crime, had already shot the girl once, she was no longer a threat and fled his home. All he had to do was call the police, but instead exacted his own vigilante justice and executed her. I will not be surprised to learn later that they arrest this old dude. Because a lot of folks are piping up in the media about this being a crime.

Did you type that response up with your OP and just post it now, expecting to be able to rage about it? Nobody in this thread has said anything of you sort you jackass.