Yes and no. Dred Scott was horrible, don't get me wrong. That decision was placed on people who deserved better, much better. But since then, things have changed dramatically. We are no where near that type of society. Sure its an important part of American history but not on the level of the Patriot Act IMO. How can one decision placed on a certain type of people be compared to one being placed on all people? We have yet to see the full fruits of this bill in my estimation. Subverting the rights of some is bad, subverting the rights of all is worse. Let's say you're right, Dred Scott is the worst decision in the history of the US, do we just thank our lucky stars and say "its only the Patriot Act, thank God its not Dred Scott all over again!" ? If the Patriot Act's full force was used on the American public, would you still feel this way? I personally think it hasn't been used to its full extent, but if/when someone in power gets scared and wants to preserve power, I believe your thoughts on the matter will change quite quickly.
Yes and no. Dred Scott was horrible, don't get me wrong. That decision was placed on people who deserved better, much better. But since then, things have changed dramatically. We are no where near that type of society. Sure its an important part of American history but not on the level of the Patriot Act IMO. How can one decision placed on a certain type of people be compared to one being placed on all people? We have yet to see the full fruits of this bill in my estimation. Subverting the rights of some is bad, subverting the rights of all is worse. Let's say you're right, Dred Scott is the worst decision in the history of the US, do we just thank our lucky stars and say "its only the Patriot Act, thank God its not Dred Scott all over again!" ? If the Patriot Act's full force was used on the American public, would you still feel this way? I personally think it hasn't been used to its full extent, but if/when someone in power gets scared and wants to preserve power, I believe your thoughts on the matter will change quite quickly.
ericlp
Diamond Member
- Dec 24, 2000
- 6,133
- 219
- 106
I find it rather funny that a right wing tv station is complaining about a law that they initially supported hook line and sinker...
I knew that this could back fire and was brought up here numinous times and someone would reply "what do you have to hide" or some lame remark. Well apparently we don't have anything to fear since your guilty automatically. Thanks to bush and his 9/11 scare tactics.
I sometimes wonder what's next and if Obama can reverse these laws and restore what little rights we had left before 9/11. Tho, I think when Obama starts to bring any up every rubup starts screaming that we are making our country less safe.
Too late is how I see it. I think all they need is one legit case and "told ya so"... Then it's all out to get whoever and what ever be it right or wrong.
I'm thinking this already may have happened to a few AT members like Dave... Anyone know what happened to that guy? I could see this happening to some people on here as a threat. Oh well... I kinda wonder if they put the american flag blankets on the bed after he got taken away. For some strange reason I don't see a kid like that having that type of taste.
Which section of the Patriot Act allows US Citizens to be "removed and left with little to no information to the whereabouts, treatment or representation of the accused?"
The federal government uses the material witness statute to piss all over the Constitution and hold people on secret evidence without access to counsel. The Patriot Act has absolutely nothing to do with it.
Give me a break. The Patriot Act is a useless piece of shit that severely encroaches upon (and in places outright violates) the Fourth Amendment, but acting like it's a modern day Enabling Act just hurts the credibility of the sane people who oppose it. Civil rights have been abridged just as harshly--and often much more so--by any number of laws passed to fight the "War on Drugs."
Please, take some time to learn about what the legislation actually is instead of just blindly blaming it for every federal abuse of power. The Patriot Act is merely one weapon in the immense arsenal the federal government has compiled to fuck you out of your civil rights.
fallout man
Golden Member
- Nov 20, 2007
- 1,787
- 0
- 0
I agree with one of the previous posters.
They should water-board him to find out what he REALLY knows. I mean, it's not torture, nor is it dangerous and deadly. What's the harm? If he has nothing to hide, then he has nothing to worry about--a little rag-n'-water in the mouth will clear it right up for the folks in the services.
They should water-board him to find out what he REALLY knows. I mean, it's not torture, nor is it dangerous and deadly. What's the harm? If he has nothing to hide, then he has nothing to worry about--a little rag-n'-water in the mouth will clear it right up for the folks in the services.
- Jul 1, 2004
- 21,030
- 2
- 61
Somewhat interesting, yet biased read...
http://lewrockwell.com/grigg/grigg-w93.html
Some fairly strong claims are being made by this kid's mother. If he has been held for 60 days and has not been charged with a crime, then that is ridiculous.
Sure would be nice if the gov't would give their side of the story. Because otherwise, it sounds like this kid isn't a threat to anyone. And if the only evidence they have is that threats were sent from his IP address, then they don't have anything at all, and this entire episode, as it appears, is absurd.
http://lewrockwell.com/grigg/grigg-w93.html
Some fairly strong claims are being made by this kid's mother. If he has been held for 60 days and has not been charged with a crime, then that is ridiculous.
Sure would be nice if the gov't would give their side of the story. Because otherwise, it sounds like this kid isn't a threat to anyone. And if the only evidence they have is that threats were sent from his IP address, then they don't have anything at all, and this entire episode, as it appears, is absurd.
MrColin
Platinum Member
- May 21, 2003
- 2,403
- 3
- 81
The kid was picked up a month ago and taken across state lines and has not received due process. This is supposedly a free country where if you were accused of a crime you used to get due process and access to a lawyer and the opportunity to refute the accusations against you. Thanks to the PA that's all gone, they can pick you up by mistake and lock you up and throw away the key, secretly if they want to. We are not much more free than the Chinese.
No, unfortunately NOT this. To think the "legitimate" media can be relied upon to root out all, or even most, stories of gov't abuse is hopelessly naive. Most mainstream media spend more time keeping an eye on celebrities and sensationalized crime stories (missing pretty blond white girls, child-killing mothers, etc.) than they do the gov't. How'd the press do keeping an eye on Bush in the run-up to the Iraqi War? Great job there, huh?
1) Not all of the Patriot Act is bad;
2) National Security Letters Suck;
3) A federal judge issued a gag order in the case;
4) Mom claims someone: "... hacked into her son's IP address and was using it to make crank calls ...";
5) The cops presented a warrant;
6) There is no proof that the juvenile has been denied "due process" (Mom said the USA Patriot Act stripped her son of his due process rights.);
7) Mom says she has little access to him since his arrest (not NO access); and
8) Mom has not claimed her son has been denied access to an attorney.
2) National Security Letters Suck;
3) A federal judge issued a gag order in the case;
4) Mom claims someone: "... hacked into her son's IP address and was using it to make crank calls ...";
5) The cops presented a warrant;
6) There is no proof that the juvenile has been denied "due process" (Mom said the USA Patriot Act stripped her son of his due process rights.);
7) Mom says she has little access to him since his arrest (not NO access); and
8) Mom has not claimed her son has been denied access to an attorney.
I didn't say 'mainstream', I said 'legitimate'. You can be non-mainstream and still be legitimate. Worldnetdaily is neither.
I'm just so proud of our home-schooled church-going 'yoots' in Nawth Carolinah ...
(but our hockey team won another thrillah last night
)
(but our hockey team won another thrillah last night
)
fallout man
Golden Member
- Nov 20, 2007
- 1,787
- 0
- 0
Seriously, if anyone didn't immediately call "bullshit" on the article after even just the first paragraph...
While I am strongly against the Patriot Act, when I first read the story I decided to wait until both sides of it were heard before passing judgment on this case. I suspected something was amiss right from the beginning and it turns out I was right. Mothers always claim their offspring are innocent no matter what kind of trouble they are in. I don't know about anyone else, but when I first saw his mugshot I knew he was guilty of something. Serves him right for making fake bomb threats against multiple schools, I hope he is locked away for a very long time. His mother also needs a lesson in child management if she thinks he is innocent even after evidence is shown that he ran a bomb threat ring such as this. Stupid ass kid, I hope he is tied down in jail, his balls are forcibly shaved by a transvestite, and he is anally raped in jail for what he has done.
I find it interesting that you showed moderation in waiting until all the evidence was in, and then wished long imprisonment and the violent rape of a 16 year old boy.
I have always said that on 9/11, terrorists destroyed two buildings
There were three buildings that went down at the world trade center.In addition to the twin towers,building 7 also went down.The biggest difference is that it was NOT hit by a plane,yet it went straight down into its own footprint at freefall speed.Go to youtube and key in WTC 7 and watch it go down...a perfect controlled demolition.For those of you that think our media is not controlled,why is it that most americans don't know this ? The BBC reported building 7 went down BEFORE it went down.WTF ? Does anyone else think this raises serious questions ?
The pentagon also raises serious questions.Think about the pictures of every plane crash
you have ever seen.there is no doubt a plane crashed because of the amount of wreckage.There is not enough wreckage at the pentagon to be consistent with a large plane crashing.
The patriot acts and military detainee bills took away most of our rights and 9/11 was the excuse.If you want to know whats going on,just connect the dots.
There were three buildings that went down at the world trade center.In addition to the twin towers,building 7 also went down.The biggest difference is that it was NOT hit by a plane,yet it went straight down into its own footprint at freefall speed.Go to youtube and key in WTC 7 and watch it go down...a perfect controlled demolition.For those of you that think our media is not controlled,why is it that most americans don't know this ? The BBC reported building 7 went down BEFORE it went down.WTF ? Does anyone else think this raises serious questions ?
The pentagon also raises serious questions.Think about the pictures of every plane crash
you have ever seen.there is no doubt a plane crashed because of the amount of wreckage.There is not enough wreckage at the pentagon to be consistent with a large plane crashing.
The patriot acts and military detainee bills took away most of our rights and 9/11 was the excuse.If you want to know whats going on,just connect the dots.
theflyingpig
Banned
- Mar 9, 2008
- 5,616
- 18
- 0
The dots lead my fist right to your face.[/quote]
That adds a lot to the discussion.Are you brain dead ?
That adds a lot to the discussion.Are you brain dead ?
theflyingpig
Banned
- Mar 9, 2008
- 5,616
- 18
- 0
There is no discussion. There is only me punching you in the face repeatedly.
--------------------------------
Please take a week to figure out how to interact with people here.
Your last two posts have added no value to the thread and you have been previously warned.
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