Update: Exploding Sunroofs

[bradly1101]

https://www.consumerreports.org/car-safety/exploding-sunroof-cases-head-to-court/

"Aaron Dunifon was driving his family of four home to Ohio from vacation last June in their 2015 Honda Odyssey when they were surprised by a loud “pop.” The sunroof glass had shattered for no apparent reason, Dunifon says. Although nobody was hurt, it was alarming.

Since the car was still under warranty, Duniform says he tried to get his local Honda dealership to assume the cost of replacement, roughly $500. The dealership refused.

Dunifon, 36, of Miamisburg, Ohio, had an advantage most consumers don’t enjoy when they’re confronted with this unexpected issue. His father is a retired automotive glass engineer who had witnessed similar spontaneous breakage at glass plants where he worked..."

 

[DaTT]

That would scare the bejeebus outta me while driving.

 

[JulesMaximus]

Seems pretty rare unless you’re driving a Hyundai or Kia. I’ve had no problem with the panorama roof in my Mercedes.

Maybe they should make them out of laminated glass instead of safety glass?

 

[bradly1101]

I don't know. It seems to me that that molded glass is subject to a wee bit of flex and possibly extreme temperatures. It's pretty hard to get a car without one, although bottom of the line cars these days are full of features since having a separate low-rent version would actually cost them more. The driveline in my cheapo minivan is the same weird thing as the one in the RX 350, and I have no doubt that the steering wheels are identical with all the controls and identical computers.

My only fear (before) about sunroofs is that in a roll (never happened to me, but others) I might put my hand up if I was upside down or rolling. Do I want broken glass up there with a passing, possibly obtrusive surface, or do I want the roof steel up there?

I had cars with sunroofs and never used them. So many times if it was open and I turned a corner the sun would blind me. They're cool if you're driving slowly under a canopy like the sequoia.

 

[JeffMD]

I am told exploding roofs is a thing if 3rd party tinted as it absorbs more heat than normal.

 

[Pacfanweb]

Likely the sunroof glass had a small nick or chip in it from something hitting it. And they flex and move while you drive and every time you open and shut the door.

I've replaced quite a few that "exploded" and don't believe a perfectly intact glass can just shatter without being damaged.

A small chip in a sunroof wouldn't act like it did in a windshield, because it's a different type of glass, and it's not fixed.

I do agree that it would be a spectacular event when it happened, though. Very scary, I'm sure.

 

[Pacfanweb]

I am told exploding roofs is a thing if 3rd party tinted as it absorbs more heat than normal.

Doesn't make sense to me. If that was the cause, then all the side glasses that are tinted FAR more often would also absorb more heat and shatter....but they don't.

Glass only typically shatters if it's damaged or if it's in a bind. A sunroof glass can't really be in a bind, as all that's holding it in the car is 4 small screws attached to a guide arm that has plastic "feet" that slide in the track. There is plenty of "slop" in one to not let it get in a bind.

 

[bradly1101]

I am told exploding roofs is a thing if 3rd party tinted as it absorbs more heat than normal.

Hmmm. That isn't mentioned. I kinda doubt the family guy with the Odyssey was into tint, on lower windows it reduces safety especially at night or in a tunnel (my almost accident with a Camry changing lanes with pure black windows).

 

[bradly1101]

Hey guys, what if the retired automotive glass engineer is right and they are hard to make with zero defects and that shattering on the factory floor wasn't all that rare. It has to be a chip from road debris? You sound like a mfr. evading the obvious truth.

 

[SKORPI0]

https://jalopnik.com/here-are-all-the-cars-reported-to-have-exploding-sunroo-1819815183

 

[Pacfanweb]

Hey guys, what if the retired automotive glass engineer is right and they are hard to make with zero defects and that shattering on the factory floor wasn't all that rare. It has to be a chip from road debris? You sound like a mfr. evading the obvious truth.

What if what the father saw was simply anecdotal evidence with no data to back it up? If he saw lots of glasses break at the GLASS factory.....so what? Who wouldn't have? I'd hazard a guess that a glass factory is THE place to see broken glass, simply because they have more of it.
Secondly: It never stated that the glasses are "hard to make with zero defects". It doesn't even imply that.

Here's what we do know from that article: There are millions and millions of cars and trucks with sunroofs.
There have been 900 complaints over a LONG period of time about them "exploding".

And there is no way at all to determine what caused it after it's broken, so you have to go with the numbers.

The real problem is likely this: In the last 10 years, more vehicles have been produced with sunroofs than ever before. Therefore, you have more of them out there to get damaged and eventually shatter.

I think it's as simple as that. There's nothing different about a sunroof glass than any other glass in the car. In fact, they should be LESS likely to break because they aren't solidly mounted, whereas the windshield and other glasses are either firmly glued in or bolted in. A sunroof glass is just sitting there, insulated by rubber.

Until I see evidence of some manufacturing issue, there is zero, zilch, nada....no reason to believe this is anything other than damaged glasses shattering that the customer was unaware of the damage prior.

When and if the facts change, maybe my opinion as a someone who has worked on hundreds and hundreds of sunroofs will.

 

[bradly1101]

What if what the father saw was simply anecdotal evidence with no data to back it up? If he saw lots of glasses break at the GLASS factory.....so what? Who wouldn't have? I'd hazard a guess that a glass factory is THE place to see broken glass, simply because they have more of it.
Secondly: It never stated that the glasses are "hard to make with zero defects". It doesn't even imply that.

Here's what we do know from that article: There are millions and millions of cars and trucks with sunroofs.
There have been 900 complaints over a LONG period of time about them "exploding".

And there is no way at all to determine what caused it after it's broken, so you have to go with the numbers.

The real problem is likely this: In the last 10 years, more vehicles have been produced with sunroofs than ever before. Therefore, you have more of them out there to get damaged and eventually shatter.

I think it's as simple as that. There's nothing different about a sunroof glass than any other glass in the car. In fact, they should be LESS likely to break because they aren't solidly mounted, whereas the windshield and other glasses are either firmly glued in or bolted in. A sunroof glass is just sitting there, insulated by rubber.

Until I see evidence of some manufacturing issue, there is zero, zilch, nada....no reason to believe this is anything other than damaged glasses shattering that the customer was unaware of the damage prior.

When and if the facts change, maybe my opinion as a someone who has worked on hundreds and hundreds of sunroofs will.

Yes, sorry, I was unaware of your experience. You're probably right.

 

[bradly1101]

Mods. please delete: misleading data.

 

[RLGL]

If you twist that type of glass enough it will shatter.

 

[Pacfanweb]

If you twist that type of glass enough it will shatter.

Yes, but sunroof glasses don't twist. Not the retractable ones.

Tempered glass can bend. That's how every other solidly-mounted glass in vehicles survive being glued to a body that flexes and twists all the time.
The difference is, I think, if a back glass or a side window had a nick/chip in it, someone usually would notice. Or they would notice when the crack starts to spiderweb. Most times folks have the sunroof shade shut when they break. So they don't notice when those glasses start to fail.

 

[JeffMD]

Doesn't make sense to me. If that was the cause, then all the side glasses that are tinted FAR more often would also absorb more heat and shatter....but they don't.

It is in combination with the shade. With it closed you create a virtual oven up there. With a strong tint you will absorb more light and convert it to more heat than factory tested. I do not think there is wide spread evidence, but there is enough worry in the after market tint industry that most of the good ones will warn you before proceeding to tint your sunroof.

 

[Pacfanweb]

It is in combination with the shade. With it closed you create a virtual oven up there. With a strong tint you will absorb more light and convert it to more heat than factory tested. I do not think there is wide spread evidence, but there is enough worry in the after market tint industry that most of the good ones will warn you before proceeding to tint your sunroof.

All sunroofs are already tinted and have UV protection anyway, I don't know why anyone would order a sunroof and then tint it...then again, I don't get the super dark tinting at all.

Anyway, I don't think getting hot will crack the glass. Tempered glass is heated and reheated a lot hotter than it'll ever get inside the car during the manufacturing process. But I wouldn't discount anything, I suppose.

None of the glasses I've replaced have had aftermarket tint, though.

 

[dave_the_nerd]

...then again, I don't get the super dark tinting at all.

It's so people can't see who you are or what kind of weapon you have pointed at them.

Any other excuse is just rationalizing for poseurs.

 

[JulesMaximus]

It is in combination with the shade. With it closed you create a virtual oven up there. With a strong tint you will absorb more light and convert it to more heat than factory tested. I do not think there is wide spread evidence, but there is enough worry in the after market tint industry that most of the good ones will warn you before proceeding to tint your sunroof.

I’ve never heard anything like this.

I tinted the panorama moonroof glass in my car a couple years ago because it just got too damned hot in my car in the SoCal sun during the summer. All of the glass in my car, except the windshield, is tinted. And I almost always leave the sun shade closed, it is like a shade though, not a solid fabric, and does let light through.

My tint is the top of the line ceramic tint and I went with 50% on all the glass except the panorama roof which I had tinted with 35%.

It has sat out in the sun many times in 100+ degree heat with no problem.

I tinted the moonroof in a previous car too. No problem at all over ten years of ownership and no professional installer ever told me this was not a good idea.

 

[adunifon]

I'm the guy that had the sunroof shatter in the article. Just now saw this months later. No additional tint was on the sunroof -- it was as it came from the lot the day we bought the van.

One thing that wasn't mentioned in the article that I presented in court was that 2015 odyssey's had significantly more sunroof shattering complaints than any other odyssey model year on the NHSTA website. It was something around 18-20% of complaints on 2015's compared to 0-1% of complaints on 2012,2013,2014, 2016 and 2017 model years. My unscientific opinion after doing research on this was that it was as "bad" batch of glass with some imperfections that couldn't be seen with the naked eye, that manifested itself under certain conditions.

 

[mindless1]

Even if the condition was that a tiny piece of road debris came up and hit it, or an acorn fell off an overhead tree or whatever, if it wasn't big enough to notice at the time, it is a dangerous condition to make glass that weak and their fault for it not being more shatter resistant. A vehicle must withstand real world road conditions. There aren't a lot of rocks in the middle of most roads but there are plenty of pebbles, gravel, smal concrete or asphalt chips, etc that wind up on them.