UPDATE:Damn boss wants me to fix others networks for free../Taking someone else's job

[slycat]

Update to my previous thread...now i really want/need some advise...hopefully
from people who have experienced similar situations before.

So, this partner/client company needs to restructure their network more or less from
ground up. They asked my company for 2 hrs of my time to look through the proposal
from their IT guy. I did what i was told and ...frankly, it was not the best, it seemed
he put a lot of effort into it but lacks experience. I gave comments to my VP and he
is 'rewording' my comments to them...Lord knows what he finally said.

So today i find out after hearing from my VP they are thinking of canning their IT guy and
wanting to give my company the job...realize we are an ASP, NOT an MIS/IT-outsourcing
company. By the way, they are currently paying the guy $60k...and i think they are thinking of
giving my company the contract for $30k. Per annum of course.

So i have an inkling they are gonna try to get me to do it for free. Restructure that company's net,
systems, upgrades, migrations, general support...etc. my mind is saying HELL NO!

welp, anyone have any experience with such matters?...i REALLY don't want to take that guy's job...
had i known this, i would have been much MUCH more careful wording to my VP...and as i mentioned before,
they have a bad habit of being harsh towards other people's 'stuf'...their staff, their products, etc.
I hate that about them. Anyway, i digress...so yes i dun wanna take that guy's job..i know how bad it is out
there...but i may be a bit too late.
Even then, i WILL NOT do all this for free...either i get a raise, or a part of the contract $...i'm thinking
1/3 is fair. $10k out of $30k.

 

[Spac3d]

I have no advice to give you, but good luck.

 

[DaveSimmons]

Even then, i WILL NOT do all this for free...either i get a raise, or a part of the contract $...i'm thinking
1/3 is fair. $10k out of $30k.

You are an employee and the contract would be with your employer not with you. You aren't presonally entitled to a "cut" of any income that your employer makes unless you are in sales and getting a comission.

And as long as you are doing the work on company time, you aren't doing it "for free."

Asking for a raise because of increased responsibilities, including keeping track the IT structure at two companies, makes sense, saying "gimme a piece of the action" does not. If you're doing any driving to the other company it also makes sense to get a gas/mileage reimbursement.

 

[slycat]

so lets say u have been employed and working at a company for 2 yrs.
suddenly they ask u to also go work at another company for the same pay...
so essentially u are doing the work of 2 IT personnel and ur telling me
i don't deserve anything?

 

[rgwalt]

Dave is right... as an employee you are in no place to demand a share of the contract revenue. You can refuse to do the work, but your employer has every right to fire you. Now, if your company is going to expect you to do both jobs in the same amount of time, then you will have something to complain about. If that becomes the case, ask them for a raise, and if you don't think you can do both jobs in the amount of time given in a week, try to get them to hire some help.

Best of luck.

Ryan

 

[dullard]

You never fully answered basic questions in the other thread.
1) How many hours per week do you work now on average.
2) How many hours per week would you be working if you do both jobs.

Only with that answered can we give you good advice.

There are two possible outcomes (numbers can be scaled of course without affecting the result)
A) You currently "work" 40 hours a week but end up sitting around and goofing off for 20 hours. Thus adding the 2nd workload will mean you now are required to actually get off your butt and do what you agreed to do when you were originally hired - working a full 40 hours.
B) You currently work 40 hours a week - and you work hard. Adding this second job will require you to work 80 hours. This is a major change in what you agreed to when you were originally hired.

If it is case (A) quit whining and just be happy you got off so long with sitting on your butt on the job. I have no sympathy for you.

If it is case (B) then you are highly justified in asking a raise for this additional workload. If you don't get the raise, then walk out. You can find work elsewhere - there are billions of jobs in the world. Do you get paid 60k a year? If not, just switch companies and do one workload and earn the salary of the outgoing person (they obviously like your work)...

 

[DaveSimmons]

so lets say u have been employed and working at a company for 2 yrs.
suddenly they ask u to also go work at another company for the same pay...
so essentially u are doing the work of 2 IT personnel and ur telling me
i don't deserve anything?

It's a change to your job description, which could well justify asking for a raise. The "another company" and "two jobs" parts by themselves don't entitle you to anything, only the change in your job description.

But if your current work isn't keeping you busy full-time, part of your raise may be just that you get to keep your existing job instead of having it change to part-time or being replaced by someone cheaper and less-experienced.

 

[slycat]

Originally posted by: DaveSimmons

so lets say u have been employed and working at a company for 2 yrs.
suddenly they ask u to also go work at another company for the same pay...
so essentially u are doing the work of 2 IT personnel and ur telling me
i don't deserve anything?

It's a change to your job description, which could well justify asking for a raise. The "another company" and "two jobs" parts by themselves don't entitle you to anything, only the change in your job description.

But if your current work isn't keeping you busy full-time, part of your raise may be just that you get to keep your existing job instead of having it change to part-time or being replaced by someone cheaper and less-experienced.

jc...all u techies at work mean to tell me u guys will be totally fine with this new premise and not whine?
so i'm the only baby here?..

yes this does change my job description...and idid not sign up for multiple engagements...if i did i would
have become a contractor intead of working for 1 company.

 

[DaveSimmons]

I'm a lead software developer not IT infrastructure as such, though I've done quite a bit of IT for my previous & current employers, including installing and maintaining Netware/NT4/W2K on servers and W95-WXP on workstations.

I'm not saying you're wrong to ask for a raise, I'm saying your approach to why you would deserve it is all wrong.

Instead of focusing on two companies, you should (if asked to do it) list out your old duties and responsibilities vs. new duties and responsibilities. Also be honest about how much time you're working each day now -- if they ask you to take on the extra work your boss probably already realizes you're idle for part of the workday.

Would I complain about working a full 40 hours? Nah, I'd get bored pretty quickly sitting around neffing instead of writing code. I'm happy with just lunch and coffee break neffing

 

[BreakApart]

If the 'extra' job appears short-term, take it.. making sure you get all the CREDIT for doing your part. (could be useful when discussing your next raise)

If the 'extra' job appears to be long-term, use your best judgment...before you start pushing buttons.(Gather ALL the info you can about what may be added to your plate)

What I would do(based on your summary)
Take a minute to FIRST review the ENTIRE game-plan. No sense getting worked up over nothing.
If it appears to be long-term, review ALL the additional duties, try not to stir things up until your boss speaks with you about it. Let them approach you first about these new duties, or it may appear your ASKING for them, then speak with your supervisor/boss about what THEY expect of you and what you expect. (time to think about it, don't jump into the pay raise until you think about everything)

Ask things like:
Will you be alone, or are they considering adding a few techs to those extra duties, perhaps hiring another tech?
Once you hint about adding another tech (if the extra duties appear to be a bit much for one person, from there you could open discussion about the added responsibilities and perhaps compensation for these extra duties.)


Depending on your agreement when they hired you...
It appears they did NOT hire you to do service work for another company. They hired you with the AGREEMENT to service THAT company only. This change of duties also means they must like/trust you enough to raise you to the next level, it is not out of line to discuss a new compensation plan when a company changes your duties. (pay & bennies)

Best of Luck sounds like fun...

 

[sciencetoy]

Let's sort some things out.

First, what's the problem with taking on another network? Basically, if you're an employee, you do what the boss says, no arguments. If it means working night and day, then yeah, it's a problem. The other problem I see is if it will spread you too thin and you don't feel that you can be responsible for both networks.

Second, no, you are NOT taking someone else's job away. His boss is taking his job away. Don't feel that it's your fault, and don't dwell on it. You yourself said that his proposal "wasn't the best" and that he "lacked experience". For 60K? Anyway, for their company it's a huge difference between employing someone and outsourcing, financially, legally, etc. It isn't your problem.

Third, what is your longterm goal and how does this affect it? If you're looking for job stability, tough - there isn't much in this world. Taking on another challenge is good for your skills, therefore good for your employability. If this is an example of how your boss treats you, and you don't like it, time to update your resume and your networking skills.

Fourth, sounds like you have two things to negotiate: your level of responsibility for the new task, and your pay. This is a golden time to ask for a raise. But you have to be a "team player" which means no bitching.

Good luck.

 

[slycat]

Sciencetoy & Breakapart:

Much appreciated...constructive criticism was what i was hoping for and thank you guys for it.
Yes, per my initial job description, i am supposed to support "Blah" company only. Since this will
tag on another, i feel some renegotiation needs to be done. Another thing is this company is 1/2hr
away so i will need to travel there quite a bit i assume. I know u can say just drive...not to be a
bitch but i don't wanna drive my own car(its in downtown and very bad traffic/crap down there so i
wanna avoid whenever possible.) so i guess its gonna be public transportation(45min-1hr).

U guys are right about the resume part...i plain forgot about that...i guess this will be more padding.

*about that it guy..u know i really much rather be a short term contractor for them and that they keep
their present it guy...i don't wanna take his job away and i sincerely feel that is have a +60 person company,
u need an in-house tech which i think he fits the bill. he may not be infrastructure caliber yet but he's
definitely good enuff for what he's doing now.

*i guess i felt pissed initially, which then clouded my judgment, because i felt like a pawn that they could
manuveur at their whim. And they are gonna make money off me on this. It feels weird/bad because its like
burgers/drinks is McDs business, but someone makes an offer to them to contract their employees to BK in their spare time, and for that McD gets some dough. McD thinks hmm..business is bad these days,
so during the slow hours i'll send them off to BK. Even though that is not their business, well, since we got an
offer from BK to use our employees...lets do it to generate some dough.
so my company sells widgets...but since this comp wants to give us $30k for the use of our employee to work for them
too, lets do it. he's just doing it within his 40hr work week so we don't have to give him lick...and since the
market is bad out there...he won't dare squeak.

and u guys think this is cool and all?...

 

[Ulfwald]

You nver know what this will lead to.

What if after this contract your company gets another contract, you are assigned to it, butit is more than 1 can handle. So they hire a 2nd IT person for you to "manage". Soon, another contract rolls around and another, thus causing an increase in labor demand, thus increasing the people you manage. Soon, you not only have hands on experience to add to your resume, but project management and people manage experience. All are invaluable when asking for a raise, promotion, new job etc.

 

[Jadow]

slycat either quit, or stop your whining.

 

[amdskip]

Originally posted by: Jadow
slycat either quit, or stop your whining.

Go away, if you don't have anything to say, don't say anything at all!